Saturn VS Honda

Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:06:18 GMT, Blah blah > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> "Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 32 MPG on the open road in a modern small car simply stinks. A
>>>> Corolla or Civic will do nearly 40. A BMW 3 Series can do 34 MPG,
>>>> despite being much larger and heavier, and having 50% more
>>>> horsepower. Heck, my '85 325e with over 300k on it did that well.
>>>> The ION has not advanced technologically at all since the original
>>>> S-Series.
>>>
>>> I thought mileage was more a function of weight and aerodynamics
>>> rather than technology. The ION is more than 300 pounds heaver than
>>> the S, and bigger, so it seems obvious that it would get worse
>>> milage.
>>
>> You can stick that Ecotec in a Fiero with a manual trans and get over
>> 45 mpg easy. Small engines in big cars or high drag cars can get
>> overworked. Big engines in small cars hardly get worked. There is a
>> balance that must be met for longevity and MPG. So a small engine in
>> a small car is good for mpg and a big engine for a big car is good
>> for mpg.
>> There are many factors in MPG but people dont tell you all of them
>> when they claim "this is what I get". Ok so the question becomes is
>> it a manual or auto? Is it a coupe or sedan? Do you drive doing the
>> speed limit or do you run 80mph? Do you wax it or not? Are you 130
>> lbs or are you 300 lbs? Are you the only one in the car or do you
>> have 3 other fat people riding with you? Do you live in the
>> mountains or flat lands? Do you have the trunk loaded down with junk
>> or ....... You get the point. Not everything gets posted to a
>> newsgroup.
>>
>> SNIP>>>>>>>>
> To be fair I don't think that Matt O'Toole comprehended the fact that
> I was driving in mountains at 75-80mph. The trip from Irvine CA to
> Laughlin NV is up (I guess the max is about 4500-5000ft and the min is
> 900ft) and down for 300 miles, most of it highway, but (and anybody
> that has made the trip can say) there is also some stop and go as you
> fight your way out of Southern California along the 91 freeway. I
> thought 32mpg was pretty good. I had my wife and a suitcase in the
> car.

Actually I was comparing driving my BMW on those very same roads. I'm well
aware of the elevation changes, and their effect on mileage.

Matt O.

Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:28:23 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" >
> wrote:
>
>> Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
>>
>>> I got about 32mpg on a recent trip in my new 2004 Saturn coupe and
>>> that was in rather hilly terrain at 75-80mph (cruise control on most
>>> of the trip between Irvine CA and Laughlin NV ), so it isn't that
>>> bad. If the original poster wants to look at getting an ION he
>>> should definately consider the leather interior, it makes a huge
>>> difference as far as comfort and overall feel of the car.
>>
>> 32 MPG on the open road in a modern small car simply stinks. A
>> Corolla or Civic will do nearly 40. A BMW 3 Series can do 34 MPG,
>> despite being much larger and heavier, and having 50% more
>> horsepower. Heck, my '85 325e with over 300k on it did that well.
>> The ION has not advanced technologically at all since the original
>> S-Series.
>>
> You have obviously never driven in California. You climb to 5000ft,
> then go down a bit and then up another 1000ft down to 900ft etc. all
> at 80+ mph, 32mpg is pretty good. Maybe if driving in, say Iowa or
> Michigan it might not be good to get 32mpg but it's pretty good in
> California.

I lived in southern CA until 2 years ago. I drove at least 20k miles a year
there for 20 years, with several years over 50k. Much of that driving was over
the mountains and through the deserts on the very roads you describe. I also
have plenty of experience with all kinds of cars, both mine and other people's,
plus rentals, plus test vehicles from various auto industry/research entities
I've worked for.

Again, 32 MPG for a small car on the open road is unimpressive at best. Geez, a
friend's *'83 Cadillac Eldorado* got 30 MPG on the way to Palm Springs. You'd
think 20 years and 1000 LB less mass would yield more improvement.

If it makes you feel any better, the Ford Focus isn't too great on gas either.
Not that it matters much to most people anyway, in comparison to car payments
and insurance.

Matt O.
..

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:25:52 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" >
wrote:

>Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:28:23 -0500, "Matt O'Toole" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
>>>
>>>> I got about 32mpg on a recent trip in my new 2004 Saturn coupe and
>>>> that was in rather hilly terrain at 75-80mph (cruise control on most
>>>> of the trip between Irvine CA and Laughlin NV ), so it isn't that
>>>> bad. If the original poster wants to look at getting an ION he
>>>> should definately consider the leather interior, it makes a huge
>>>> difference as far as comfort and overall feel of the car.
>>>
>>> 32 MPG on the open road in a modern small car simply stinks. A
>>> Corolla or Civic will do nearly 40. A BMW 3 Series can do 34 MPG,
>>> despite being much larger and heavier, and having 50% more
>>> horsepower. Heck, my '85 325e with over 300k on it did that well.
>>> The ION has not advanced technologically at all since the original
>>> S-Series.
>>>
>> You have obviously never driven in California. You climb to 5000ft,
>> then go down a bit and then up another 1000ft down to 900ft etc. all
>> at 80+ mph, 32mpg is pretty good. Maybe if driving in, say Iowa or
>> Michigan it might not be good to get 32mpg but it's pretty good in
>> California.
>
>I lived in southern CA until 2 years ago. I drove at least 20k miles a year
>there for 20 years, with several years over 50k. Much of that driving was over
>the mountains and through the deserts on the very roads you describe. I also
>have plenty of experience with all kinds of cars, both mine and other people's,
>plus rentals, plus test vehicles from various auto industry/research entities
>I've worked for.
>
>Again, 32 MPG for a small car on the open road is unimpressive at best. Geez, a
>friend's *'83 Cadillac Eldorado* got 30 MPG on the way to Palm Springs. You'd
>think 20 years and 1000 LB less mass would yield more improvement.
>
>If it makes you feel any better, the Ford Focus isn't too great on gas either.
>Not that it matters much to most people anyway, in comparison to car payments
>and insurance.
>
>Matt O.
>.
>
I don't believe for an instant that an 83 eldorado got 30 mpg on those
roads unless it had a honda engine in it and was only going 30mph.
Hell those cars would burn a gallon backing out of the driveway. The
BMW I have no idea about, but an eldorado no way :-) In any event, I'm
not really concerned that much about gas mileage because I do very
little driving, but I thought at 32mpg my car was pretty average.

In article >,
says...

> I don't believe for an instant that an 83 eldorado got 30 mpg on those
> roads unless it had a honda engine in it and was only going 30mph.
> Hell those cars would burn a gallon backing out of the driveway. The
> BMW I have no idea about, but an eldorado no way :-) In any event, I'm
> not really concerned that much about gas mileage because I do very
> little driving, but I thought at 32mpg my car was pretty average.
>

A Honda would get 5mpg. No way in hell it would move a Caddy with any
efficiency unless maybe you had 20 gears. Besides that a 83 probably
only made 100hp (lot more in torque)... I dont think these guys had any
math classes. I doubt that caddy makes over 20mpg.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:06:06 GMT, Blah blah > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>
>> I don't believe for an instant that an 83 eldorado got 30 mpg on those
>> roads unless it had a honda engine in it and was only going 30mph.
>> Hell those cars would burn a gallon backing out of the driveway. The
>> BMW I have no idea about, but an eldorado no way :-) In any event, I'm
>> not really concerned that much about gas mileage because I do very
>> little driving, but I thought at 32mpg my car was pretty average.
>>
>
>A Honda would get 5mpg. No way in hell it would move a Caddy with any
>efficiency unless maybe you had 20 gears. Besides that a 83 probably
>only made 100hp (lot more in torque)... I dont think these guys had any
>math classes. I doubt that caddy makes over 20mpg.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/cadillac/cad1980/cad82.htm

reports the 1982 highway for Seville/Eldorado was 27mpg. Of course,
that is an EPA estimate which we all know don't hold up in the real
world. Math class was not required though as apparently, (in 1982
anyway) they had some sort of fuel data calculator built into the
instruments.

--
10 things men know about women:
1)?2)?3)?4)?5)?6)?7)?8)?9)?10) women have breasts

In article >,
says...
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:06:06 GMT, Blah blah > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> says...
> >
> >> I don't believe for an instant that an 83 eldorado got 30 mpg on those
> >> roads unless it had a honda engine in it and was only going 30mph.
> >> Hell those cars would burn a gallon backing out of the driveway. The
> >> BMW I have no idea about, but an eldorado no way :-) In any event, I'm
> >> not really concerned that much about gas mileage because I do very
> >> little driving, but I thought at 32mpg my car was pretty average.
> >>
> >
> >A Honda would get 5mpg. No way in hell it would move a Caddy with any
> >efficiency unless maybe you had 20 gears. Besides that a 83 probably
> >only made 100hp (lot more in torque)... I dont think these guys had any
> >math classes. I doubt that caddy makes over 20mpg.
>
> http://www.100megsfree4.com/cadillac/cad1980/cad82.htm
>
> reports the 1982 highway for Seville/Eldorado was 27mpg. Of course,
> that is an EPA estimate which we all know don't hold up in the real
> world. Math class was not required though as apparently, (in 1982
> anyway) they had some sort of fuel data calculator built into the
> instruments.
>
> --
> 10 things men know about women:
> 1)?2)?3)?4)?5)?6)?7)?8)?9)?10) women have breasts

The Jap SUV's and Vans have been doing a pretty good job of tricking the
EPA's treadmills. Not sure how they pull it off.

In article >,
Blah blah > wrote:

> The Jap SUV's and Vans have been doing a pretty good job of tricking the
> EPA's treadmills. Not sure how they pull it off.

Same way Honda and Toyota did it a few years ago when they got busted or
emissions - the computer can apparently detect a test cycle (somehow?)
and kick into a supereconomy test mode. They got into a bit of trouble
with the EPA over this a few years ago w.r.t. emissions testing, when it
was revealed that certain cars would kick into a low emissions mode
durring the test cycle...

Blah blah wrote:

> The Jap SUV's and Vans have been doing a pretty good job of tricking
> the EPA's treadmills. Not sure how they pull it off.

There's no trick to it. Just gear the car really tall so the engine is barely
ticking over in top gear at test speed. Often this results in poor real-world
performance, because most people would be driving a gear or two lower in the
same situation.

Any car will get phenomenal mileage going slowly in top gear. I've gotten over
70 MPG in my Rabbit Diesel, going 45-50 MPH on an Interstate in a snowstorm.
Similarly, I got 40 MPG in my '85 318i, which usually got 25-27 MPG.

Matt O.

In article >, says...
> Blah blah wrote:
>
> > The Jap SUV's and Vans have been doing a pretty good job of tricking
> > the EPA's treadmills. Not sure how they pull it off.
>
> There's no trick to it. Just gear the car really tall so the engine is barely
> ticking over in top gear at test speed. Often this results in poor real-world
> performance, because most people would be driving a gear or two lower in the
> same situation.

You dont have an understanding of how EPA treadmills work. They dont
freewheel without resistance and my cars has a taller gear than the
majority of automatics out there and it rides just fine in it.

"EDeneen" > wrote in message
...
> >The only
> >problem we've all had were alternators, which go out every 70k like
clockwork
>
> The original alternator in my SL lasted over 120,000 miles !
> E


What year is your SL and is it an SL1 or SL2 ?

The original on my 94 SL1 made it just past the warrant, The one I got at
the dealer to replace it made it just past its 3 year warranty. The one I
got a local Chevy dealer only had a 1 year warranty but is still working.
ron