Preparing & Painting My Bus

With the return of warm weather, I've turned my attention to getting
my 1971 Type II, Turtle, ready to be my primary vehicle.

The part I want to focus on here is making the exterior look good. I
would like to hear some suggestions.

What I have planned:

Finish chipping away the old, cracked body filler on various parts of
the Bus, especially a large, thick section on the lower part of the
front panel. Then, I'm going to prep these areas and repair them with
fresh filler by applying thin layer upon thin layer until it looks
like it's supposed to.

Then, after removing or masking the parts that I don't want painted,
I'm going to prime it.

I want to paint the bottom portion shiny black and the top portion
shiny yellow. So, I need to figure out the best way to accomplish
this.

Here are some things I have to deal with:

I don't have the money, tools, or ability to replace panels (which
would be the ideal answer for the front one). I can have my dad weld
any tears there may be so they won't move and crack the overlaying
body filler.

I'm more interested in having this look good than look showroom
quality. It's going to be my daily driver and parked outside 24-7.

I'm doing all of the work outside because I don't have a garage (and
Turtle has a hightop and won't fit into most garages anyway). So, I
have to deal with wind and blowing dirt, insects, heat (around 100
degrees in the daytime), and occassional rain. The exception is, I
plan to take it to Spearman, TX, and perform final painting in my
father-in-law's shop (an old airplane hanger).

I don't have much of a budget so I want stuff that's good and durable
(filler, primer, paint) but not top-of-the market expensive.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks!

-- Christian

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvi...item=107218 2
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

Christian M. Mericle wrote:
> With the return of warm weather, I've turned my attention to getting
> my 1971 Type II, Turtle, ready to be my primary vehicle.
>
> The part I want to focus on here is making the exterior look good. I
> would like to hear some suggestions.
>
> What I have planned:
>
> Finish chipping away the old, cracked body filler on various parts of
> the Bus, especially a large, thick section on the lower part of the
> front panel. Then, I'm going to prep these areas and repair them with
> fresh filler by applying thin layer upon thin layer until it looks
> like it's supposed to.
>
> Then, after removing or masking the parts that I don't want painted,
> I'm going to prime it.
>
> I want to paint the bottom portion shiny black and the top portion
> shiny yellow. So, I need to figure out the best way to accomplish
> this.
>
> Here are some things I have to deal with:
>
> I don't have the money, tools, or ability to replace panels (which
> would be the ideal answer for the front one). I can have my dad weld
> any tears there may be so they won't move and crack the overlaying
> body filler.
>
> I'm more interested in having this look good than look showroom
> quality. It's going to be my daily driver and parked outside 24-7.
>
> I'm doing all of the work outside because I don't have a garage (and
> Turtle has a hightop and won't fit into most garages anyway). So, I
> have to deal with wind and blowing dirt, insects, heat (around 100
> degrees in the daytime), and occassional rain. The exception is, I
> plan to take it to Spearman, TX, and perform final painting in my
> father-in-law's shop (an old airplane hanger).
>
> I don't have much of a budget so I want stuff that's good and durable
> (filler, primer, paint) but not top-of-the market expensive.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>
After prep, I think key to a decent finish is using primer and paint
that are compatible -- may want to stick to the same brand. I am not a
painter, so I could be wrong.
To spray, you will need a makeshif spray booth. Something you can keep
dust to a minimum. The following works well for me spraying wood
cabinets with uerethane so will probably also work on cars:

Clean your garage well, let the dust settle and cover the floor with
plastic. Then, without stirring up too much dust, make a tent within
your garage using thing plastic. Don't go banging nails in; just staple
stuff to the joists. If you don't have access to a garage, you could
make a tent out of PVC electrical tubing. One can even buy elbows, etc,
for it.

The thin plastic is inherently statically charged and will draw dust
particles to it. On one side of the tent, poke a hole and put the hose
of a shop vac through it. Obviously, the shop vac is to be placed on
the outside of the tent. You want a nagative draft (stuff to be sucked
out of your tent or for it to stick to the plastic, not your work).
You will need a decent size shop vac - I have a dust collector, which
is made for constant duty and moves a lot of air. Harbor freight has
one that would do well:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45378

Again, I have not tried this on cars, but it works really well on
finishing cabinets. Others here probably have much better ideas.

Remco

Obviously, the shop vac is to be placed on
> the outside of the tent. You want a nagative draft (stuff to be sucked
> out of your tent or for it to stick to the plastic, not your work).

May I dissagree ?

When I was in the electronics indutry our clean rooms used filtered
positive air flow. That way any dust gets blown out any place your tent
isnt airtight.

When its negative, air from outside your tent is being sucked in trought
any gaps A- bringing any dust in from outside your tent and B-creating
a draft which stirs up any settled dust (paint dust etc) from inside.

Rich

tricky wrote:
> Obviously, the shop vac is to be placed on
> > the outside of the tent. You want a nagative draft (stuff to be
sucked
> > out of your tent or for it to stick to the plastic, not your work).
>
> May I dissagree ?
>
> When I was in the electronics indutry our clean rooms used filtered
> positive air flow. That way any dust gets blown out any place your
tent
> isnt airtight.
>
> When its negative, air from outside your tent is being sucked in
trought
> any gaps A- bringing any dust in from outside your tent and
B-creating
> a draft which stirs up any settled dust (paint dust etc) from inside.
>
> Rich

You're right, Rich - positive filtered air would be the best way to go,
but this is the poor man's approach
I am not looking for an area to be totally dust free, which would be
impossible -- just for the dust to not be on the work or have it float
around.

While I carry all the cabinets in my makeshift booth, dust is stirred
up. Turn on a work light - you'll only think it was clean but know
better when you light it up.
The VAC/Dust collector just makes sure that this dust does not settle
on any of my work or floats around. It wants to move towards the
exhaust. If it wants to stick to my plastic, that works too.

When it has all settled, I usally turn the vac off but not sure if that
hurts or helps. It is also a good idea to tack all surfaces one more
time.

While the dust collector moves a lot of air, I have not seen it where
it sucks more dust into the area but that might be different if the
area was smaller. It seems to work because whatever external particles
are moved towards the tent are statically tacked to the plastic when
they get close (btw, I toss the plastic when I am done).
In the past I've draped half the garage in sheets of plastic. If one
applied this technique using a shipping box as a paint booth (tried
that too) it may not work.

I used to spray without this setup by cleaning the area really well and
being careful to make sudden movements
Had to stay away from high gloss finishes, as it is pretty hard to
apply without seeing specks. With this setup I've noticed a marked
improvement.
(Btw, not that I am a great fan of high gloss on wood, but it is a
harder finish. I usually polish it with compound to knock the gloss off
and sand out imperfections)

It works really well for me, but I've never used it spraying anything
other than furniture or cabinets. Hopefully soon I'll try it on my bug
(after getting heater channels/floor pans done, that is)

"Remco" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> tricky wrote:
> > Obviously, the shop vac is to be placed on
> > > the outside of the tent. You want a nagative draft (stuff to be
> sucked
> > > out of your tent or for it to stick to the plastic, not your work).
> >
> > May I dissagree ?
> >
> > When I was in the electronics indutry our clean rooms used filtered
> > positive air flow. That way any dust gets blown out any place your
> tent
> > isnt airtight.
> >
> > When its negative, air from outside your tent is being sucked in
> trought
> > any gaps A- bringing any dust in from outside your tent and
> B-creating
> > a draft which stirs up any settled dust (paint dust etc) from inside.
> >
> > Rich
>
> You're right, Rich - positive filtered air would be the best way to go,
> but this is the poor man's approach
> I am not looking for an area to be totally dust free, which would be
> impossible -- just for the dust to not be on the work or have it float
> around.
>
> While I carry all the cabinets in my makeshift booth, dust is stirred
> up. Turn on a work light - you'll only think it was clean but know
> better when you light it up.
> The VAC/Dust collector just makes sure that this dust does not settle
> on any of my work or floats around. It wants to move towards the
> exhaust. If it wants to stick to my plastic, that works too.
>
> When it has all settled, I usally turn the vac off but not sure if that
> hurts or helps. It is also a good idea to tack all surfaces one more
> time.
>
> While the dust collector moves a lot of air, I have not seen it where
> it sucks more dust into the area but that might be different if the
> area was smaller. It seems to work because whatever external particles
> are moved towards the tent are statically tacked to the plastic when
> they get close (btw, I toss the plastic when I am done).
> In the past I've draped half the garage in sheets of plastic. If one
> applied this technique using a shipping box as a paint booth (tried
> that too) it may not work.
>
> I used to spray without this setup by cleaning the area really well and
> being careful to make sudden movements
> Had to stay away from high gloss finishes, as it is pretty hard to
> apply without seeing specks. With this setup I've noticed a marked
> improvement.
> (Btw, not that I am a great fan of high gloss on wood, but it is a
> harder finish. I usually polish it with compound to knock the gloss off
> and sand out imperfections)
>
> It works really well for me, but I've never used it spraying anything
> other than furniture or cabinets. Hopefully soon I'll try it on my bug
> (after getting heater channels/floor pans done, that is)
>
Hey Rich,
On my way home I thought of your statement of using positive air flow and
was wondering what you think of this:

The following wouldn't work with a shop vac, but with a dust collector one
has the option of having very fine filter bags.
They are expensive but would trap all dirt and dust. One creates the same
tent as described above but the dust collector is placed on the inside,
creating a positive air pressure. The intake is going through some bulkhead
to the outside, sucking in fresh air

I might give it a whirl on my next spray project to see if that works even
better..

Black is the worse color to paint a NOT perfect repair job --- it will
really show from a distance. Goo all yellow would be my recommendation ---
or maybe a white roof. Sounds like the bondo was on too thick --- you need
to bang the metal out so that it is 1/4" or less. Do all the prep, priming,
trim removal and then take it to MAACO and have it painted --- you can't do
it as cheap as they can nor as well unless you've painted 1/2 dozen vehicles
before.

"Christian M. Mericle" > wrote in message
...
> With the return of warm weather, I've turned my attention to getting
> my 1971 Type II, Turtle, ready to be my primary vehicle.
>
> The part I want to focus on here is making the exterior look good. I
> would like to hear some suggestions.
>
> What I have planned:
>
> Finish chipping away the old, cracked body filler on various parts of
> the Bus, especially a large, thick section on the lower part of the
> front panel. Then, I'm going to prep these areas and repair them with
> fresh filler by applying thin layer upon thin layer until it looks
> like it's supposed to.
>
> Then, after removing or masking the parts that I don't want painted,
> I'm going to prime it.
>
> I want to paint the bottom portion shiny black and the top portion
> shiny yellow. So, I need to figure out the best way to accomplish
> this.
>
> Here are some things I have to deal with:
>
> I don't have the money, tools, or ability to replace panels (which
> would be the ideal answer for the front one). I can have my dad weld
> any tears there may be so they won't move and crack the overlaying
> body filler.
>
> I'm more interested in having this look good than look showroom
> quality. It's going to be my daily driver and parked outside 24-7.
>
> I'm doing all of the work outside because I don't have a garage (and
> Turtle has a hightop and won't fit into most garages anyway). So, I
> have to deal with wind and blowing dirt, insects, heat (around 100
> degrees in the daytime), and occassional rain. The exception is, I
> plan to take it to Spearman, TX, and perform final painting in my
> father-in-law's shop (an old airplane hanger).
>
> I don't have much of a budget so I want stuff that's good and durable
> (filler, primer, paint) but not top-of-the market expensive.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --
> http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvi...item=107218 2
> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

This is good advice. The thing that generally makes a cheap paint job
"cheap" (as in low quality) is that they spend the bare minimum time
possible on prep. If you do all the body work, welding, filling,
sanding, etc. and do a final wet sand and have an outfit like MAACO shot
it you really can end up with a decent paint job. What I'd do is call
them up and get pricing on their basic paint job. Then go down there
and talk to the shop manager, tell him you want to get the basic paint
job that cost X dollars and that you are going to do the body prep. Ask
him what kind of primer is compatible with the paint he uses.

If you really want to make it look good you could do some of the trim
tape up. The right way to tape up around your window glass is to slide
some cord (insulated electrial wire, say 16 guage will work) between the
rubber and the body so that the edge of the rubber stands up off the
metal. Then tape the rubber up letting the tape curl under the back of
the rubber. You could drive it down to the paint shop and let them
finish putting paper on the windows and taping up to your tape. The
MAACOs or Earl Schibes will never go to this trouble, they'll just tape
close to the edge of the rubber - who cares if some of the window trim
gets sprayed, right?

I've actually gone this route and come out with a paint job that looked
like it costs way more than I paid. The only caution is that some of
the guys that run these national paint chains can be sleazy. I'd shop
around and talk to the managers and try to size them up. Avoid the one
that gives you the high pressure sell trying to upgrade you to ever more
expensive paint packages. Not to say that you have to get the absolute
cheapest paint job they offer. Sometimes stepping up one notch can be
worth it.

Wolfgang wrote:
> Black is the worse color to paint a NOT perfect repair job --- it will
> really show from a distance. Goo all yellow would be my recommendation ---
> or maybe a white roof. Sounds like the bondo was on too thick --- you need
> to bang the metal out so that it is 1/4" or less. Do all the prep, priming,
> trim removal and then take it to MAACO and have it painted --- you can't do
> it as cheap as they can nor as well unless you've painted 1/2 dozen vehicles
> before.
>
> "Christian M. Mericle" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>With the return of warm weather, I've turned my attention to getting
>>my 1971 Type II, Turtle, ready to be my primary vehicle.
>>
>>The part I want to focus on here is making the exterior look good. I
>>would like to hear some suggestions.
>>
>>What I have planned:
>>
>>Finish chipping away the old, cracked body filler on various parts of
>>the Bus, especially a large, thick section on the lower part of the
>>front panel. Then, I'm going to prep these areas and repair them with
>>fresh filler by applying thin layer upon thin layer until it looks
>>like it's supposed to.
>>
>>Then, after removing or masking the parts that I don't want painted,
>>I'm going to prime it.
>>
>>I want to paint the bottom portion shiny black and the top portion
>>shiny yellow. So, I need to figure out the best way to accomplish
>>this.
>>
>>Here are some things I have to deal with:
>>
>>I don't have the money, tools, or ability to replace panels (which
>>would be the ideal answer for the front one). I can have my dad weld
>>any tears there may be so they won't move and crack the overlaying
>>body filler.
>>
>>I'm more interested in having this look good than look showroom
>>quality. It's going to be my daily driver and parked outside 24-7.
>>
>>I'm doing all of the work outside because I don't have a garage (and
>>Turtle has a hightop and won't fit into most garages anyway). So, I
>>have to deal with wind and blowing dirt, insects, heat (around 100
>>degrees in the daytime), and occassional rain. The exception is, I
>>plan to take it to Spearman, TX, and perform final painting in my
>>father-in-law's shop (an old airplane hanger).
>>
>>I don't have much of a budget so I want stuff that's good and durable
>>(filler, primer, paint) but not top-of-the market expensive.
>>
>>Thoughts and suggestions?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>-- Christian
>>
>>Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
>>World Vision (Darfur) --
>>http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvi...item=107218 2
>>ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html
>
>
>

"John Crichton" > wrote in message
news:Idcje.9283$WG.2155@attbi_s22...
> This is good advice. The thing that generally makes a cheap paint job
> "cheap" (as in low quality) is that they spend the bare minimum time
> possible on prep. If you do all the body work, welding, filling,
> sanding, etc. and do a final wet sand and have an outfit like MAACO shot
> it you really can end up with a decent paint job. What I'd do is call
> them up and get pricing on their basic paint job. Then go down there
> and talk to the shop manager, tell him you want to get the basic paint
> job that cost X dollars and that you are going to do the body prep. Ask
> him what kind of primer is compatible with the paint he uses.
>


Macco and such use very "cheap" paint...you can get a decent "looking" job,
but it may not last long....it also typically is the cheap paint that causes
you distress later on if you decide to paint again....it will usually
require it to be stripped off(the previous cheap-o paint) and can really
make you rethink that bad decision....

Joey Tribiani wrote:

> "John Crichton" > wrote in message
> news:Idcje.9283$WG.2155@attbi_s22...
>
>>This is good advice. The thing that generally makes a cheap paint job
>>"cheap" (as in low quality) is that they spend the bare minimum time
>>possible on prep. If you do all the body work, welding, filling,
>>sanding, etc. and do a final wet sand and have an outfit like MAACO shot
>>it you really can end up with a decent paint job. What I'd do is call
>>them up and get pricing on their basic paint job. Then go down there
>>and talk to the shop manager, tell him you want to get the basic paint
>>job that cost X dollars and that you are going to do the body prep. Ask
>>him what kind of primer is compatible with the paint he uses.
>>
>
>
>
> Macco and such use very "cheap" paint...you can get a decent "looking" job,
> but it may not last long....it also typically is the cheap paint that causes
> you distress later on if you decide to paint again....it will usually
> require it to be stripped off(the previous cheap-o paint) and can really
> make you rethink that bad decision....
>
>

I had a basic polyurethane single coat paint job (i.e. not clear
coat/base coat) done by Macco on a bug I used to own. Did all the prep
work myself as described earlier. I think it was one level up from
their cheapest job. It lasted a good 8 - 9 years and was still good
(not perfect, slight fading and loss of shine. Something a good wax job
would improve significantly). I sold the car at that point so I don't
know what it would look like today. Keep in mind that this guy is
talking about doing his own body work and buying the paint and shooting
it himself. The fact that he would be first time auto painter is pretty
much going to limit him to a polyurethane type paint that will be
similar to what Macco is going to use. I don't think that a base
coat/clear coat paint system is something that a novice painter should
try to work with on his first try. So all things being equal if he
paints it himself he is likely to end up with a paint quality no better
nor worse than what Macco is likely to use. As the previous poster
points out, he probably can't buy the materials much cheaper that what
Macco will charge him to shoot it (they do get quantity pricing). Now,
if the goal is to learn how to do auto body work and painting then I
would say go for it. Do it all yourself and learn from the your
mistakes that are likely to happen. If the goal is to have a decent
looking vehicle with a decent (but not the best) paint job then I think
the route I and the previous poster advocated is a reasonable route.

As a final comment, if you decide you want a particular brand and series
of paint to be used you might even negotiate with them to use what you
want and pay the difference. I have no first hand knowledge if this is
doable but if you ask the worst they can do is say no.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 03:51:12 GMT, John Crichton >
wrote:

<snip>
>I had a basic polyurethane single coat paint job (i.e. not clear
>coat/base coat) done by Macco on a bug I used to own. Did all the prep
>work myself as described earlier. I think it was one level up from
>their cheapest job. It lasted a good 8 - 9 years and was still good
>(not perfect, slight fading and loss of shine. Something a good wax job
>would improve significantly). I sold the car at that point so I don't
>know what it would look like today. Keep in mind that this guy is
>talking about doing his own body work and buying the paint and shooting
>it himself. The fact that he would be first time auto painter is pretty
>much going to limit him to a polyurethane type paint that will be
>similar to what Macco is going to use. I don't think that a base
>coat/clear coat paint system is something that a novice painter should
>try to work with on his first try. So all things being equal if he
>paints it himself he is likely to end up with a paint quality no better
>nor worse than what Macco is likely to use. As the previous poster
>points out, he probably can't buy the materials much cheaper that what
>Macco will charge him to shoot it (they do get quantity pricing). Now,
>if the goal is to learn how to do auto body work and painting then I
>would say go for it. Do it all yourself and learn from the your
>mistakes that are likely to happen. If the goal is to have a decent
>looking vehicle with a decent (but not the best) paint job then I think
>the route I and the previous poster advocated is a reasonable route.
>
>As a final comment, if you decide you want a particular brand and series
>of paint to be used you might even negotiate with them to use what you
>want and pay the difference. I have no first hand knowledge if this is
>doable but if you ask the worst they can do is say no.

I used to work at a sign company and have shot paint (including a
barebones job on a work truck). But, I wouldn't say that I'm very good
at it (not terrible either). Since I don't plan to be paint vehicles
very often, I'm not really interested in learning to make it look
great. The Maaco idea sounds like the way to go. I'll do all the prep
and have them shoot the paint.

Will there be any issues with the hightop or with the fact that I want
two different colors shot instead of just one?

-- Christian

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvi...item=107218 2
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html