anti Touareg sentiment

Steve Grauman wrote:
>
>>I have as much respect for the 911 as the next guy, but the
>>large-displacement approach can also produce highly desirable results.
>
>
> Of course it can. What I'm arguing is the notion that turbocharging a smaller
> engine isn't as viable a way to get power. The RS6 makes 450Hp from a 4.2 litre
> V8. Compare it to the 400Hp Z06, which has 5.7 litres on tap and a much gruffer
> approach.

And, again, you're comparing an $80K car to a $45K car. Believe me, my
next car is far more likely to be an Audi than a Chevy, but those guys
in Bowling Green sure do seem to be able to extract a lot of performance
(and I'm not just talking about straight-line acceleration) from a
(relatively) small amount of money.

--
Mike Smith

>those guys
>in Bowling Green sure do seem to be able to extract a lot of performance
>(and I'm not just talking about straight-line acceleration) from a
>(relatively) small amount of money.
>

It helps that they've been using essentially the same engine design for 30
years. I'll do things the opposite way here, how about the Subaru WRX STi? 0-60
in the low 4s, less than 3.0 litres of displacement. And you get it packed with
AWD and other gooides for less than $35k. There's nothing special about a HUGE
V8 making big power. And you seem to have ignored the portion I wrote last time
about the new Legacy 2.5. You get a fully loaded, leather packed sedan with AWD
and a 5.2 second 0-60 time for less than $36k. That's enough performance to
rival the new Pontiac GTO, complete with it's 5.7 litre V8.
Steve Grauman

(Steve Grauman) wrote in message

> We don't? Damn, and I though almost $3 a gallon for 91 was high.

Nah, I'd rate that as pretty cheap. Around here (Norway), current cost
is US$ 6.30 a gallon. Crazy thing is that this country supplies most
of the gasoline sold on the Eastcoast of the USA.

Espen
86 Golf GTI 2.0

Mike Smith > wrote in message >...

> 4) Compare the price of a Vette to that of a 911.

Hmm, on these shores, the 911 starts at US$ 150,000, and the Vette
starts at US$ 201,000, so I'd say the 911 is a somewhat better buy,
at least in this country (Norway). Hell, a Camaro will cost ya $
136,000. I'd take the 911.


Espen
86 Golf GTI

"Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
...
> >When I was 21 I would have agreed with you, but now that I am a dumb old
> >fart, I
> >don't.
> >
>
> I don't think any of you guys are dumb. I do, however, think that because
> you're all older than me, you're more willing as a group to discount my
opinion
> because you're priorities at 40, 50, etc... are different than mine now. I
> happen to like the idea of a TDI. A fuel efficent engine that's realitivly
> quiet and dependable, with enough power to be adequate as a day to day driver.
> And if I had the cash for a 2nd car right now, I might consider a TDI Jetta or
> Passat. By I'm not used to a car that needs that kind of room. I drive a much
> quicker car every day and that's what I've come to like. You can either see it
> as a difference in opinion, or go and get all annoyed by it. Whatever you
want.
> Steve Grauman

I am sorry if I gave the impression I discount your opinion...I don't, I was
just explaining why opinions, like mileage, vary. The TDI or any diesel is a
great car for commuting and general around town driving. It is also great on the
highway, where the mileage numbers are outstanding. The TDI also represents the
first VW diesel that isn't a true slug. I realize that is a relative term, and
no one should mistake the TDI for a performance car, but for general use, it is
a very good performer. Quick is fun, I like quick, I have owned quick, but at
some point other factors slide ahead of quick on the priority scale. For some
quick gets supplanted by luxury, for others it is economy, others may make
utility their priority. None of it is wrong, just different.
--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)

> I don't think any of you guys are dumb. I do, however, think that because
> you're all older than me, you're more willing as a group to discount my
opinion
> because you're priorities at 40, 50, etc... are different than mine now.

Another, more accurate way to put it would be that all of us guys in our
forties were 21 once, and not that long ago, and we remember very well how
we knew everything, absolutely everything, about everything. Only to
discover as we progressed into our thirties that the truth is we were green,
wet-behind-the-ears, and embarrassingly brash in spite of our lack of
experience at 21. Don't get upset, Steve, you'll feel the same way one day,
and believe me, you'll be 45 before you know it.

Brian Running wrote:

>>I don't think any of you guys are dumb. I do, however, think that because
>>you're all older than me, you're more willing as a group to discount my
>
> opinion
>
>>because you're priorities at 40, 50, etc... are different than mine now.
>
>
> Another, more accurate way to put it would be that all of us guys in our
> forties were 21 once, and not that long ago, and we remember very well how
> we knew everything, absolutely everything, about everything. Only to
> discover as we progressed into our thirties that the truth is we were green,
> wet-behind-the-ears, and embarrassingly brash in spite of our lack of
> experience at 21. Don't get upset, Steve, you'll feel the same way one day,
> and believe me, you'll be 45 before you know it.
>
>

Well said!

Biggest difference is we only had print car mags to read to make us
"experts in our own minds", and not also the online internet stuff; and
we didn't have newsgroups to broadcast our delusions.

It's "easier" to appear a fool to a wider audience, now. <g>

Steve Grauman wrote:

>>those guys
>>in Bowling Green sure do seem to be able to extract a lot of performance
>>(and I'm not just talking about straight-line acceleration) from a
>>(relatively) small amount of money.
>
> It helps that they've been using essentially the same engine design for 30
> years.

Yeah, well, a good engineer knows when it's sometimes better to leave
well enough alone. Some people are more concerned with results than
jizzing over advanced technology.

> I'll do things the opposite way here, how about the Subaru WRX STi? 0-60
> in the low 4s, less than 3.0 litres of displacement. And you get it packed with
> AWD and other gooides for less than $35k. There's nothing special about a HUGE
> V8 making big power.

There's nothing special about a 4-cylinder making big power, either.
Again, it's results that count, not how you get there.

> And you seem to have ignored the portion

Jeez, dude, you seem to be taking this awfully personally.

> I wrote last time
> about the new Legacy 2.5. You get a fully loaded, leather packed sedan with AWD
> and a 5.2 second 0-60 time for less than $36k.

More obsession with 0-60 times. How does it handle? How communicative
is the steering? How is its near-limit behavior? Is it
confidence-inspiring in the twisties? There's more to a car than how
fast it goes in a straight line.

> That's enough performance to
> rival the new Pontiac GTO, complete with it's 5.7 litre V8.

Um, I would say that comparing a car against a *Pontiac* is setting
one's sights a bit low, eh?

--
Mike Smith

gshok wrote:

> Mike Smith > wrote in message >...
>
>
>>4) Compare the price of a Vette to that of a 911.
>
>
> Hmm, on these shores, the 911 starts at US$ 150,000, and the Vette
> starts at US$ 201,000, so I'd say the 911 is a somewhat better buy,
> at least in this country (Norway). Hell, a Camaro will cost ya $
> 136,000. I'd take the 911.


OK, cute. Here in the States, a Vette costs about $45K.

--
Mike Smith

gshok wrote:

> (Steve Grauman) wrote in message
>
>
>>We don't? Damn, and I though almost $3 a gallon for 91 was high.
>
>
> Nah, I'd rate that as pretty cheap. Around here (Norway), current cost
> is US$ 6.30 a gallon. Crazy thing is that this country supplies most
> of the gasoline sold on the Eastcoast of the USA.

Nothing crazy about it - your gas is expensive because that's the way
your government decided they wanted it. Now, *presumably*, that means
your countrymen want it that way, too (I mean, you *do* live in a
democracy, right?).

--
Mike Smith