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Negotiating with a dealer



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 22nd 05, 05:03 AM
Amanda Robin
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Default Negotiating with a dealer

Hi all--

I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.

I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is
it ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any
ability to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt
whether I will have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.

This is a pretty basic question, but I haven't seen it addressed on the
car buying sites. I have just sort of assumed that you can only bargain
well if you can convince them that you will walk away if you don't get a
reasonable deal. (Do you have to pay something down when ordering a car,
by the way?)

You might be interested to know that when I requested one of those
competitive quotes over the Internet (I think this one was from Kelly),
the BMW dealer in a large city in TX quoted me exactly MSRP. Do they
think people are dumb, or is an 06 Bimmer hot enough that it's
non-negotiable right now?

Thanks for any comments,

Amanda
Ads
  #2  
Old July 22nd 05, 05:48 AM
fbloogyudsr
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"Amanda Robin" > wrote
> I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
> homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
> Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.
>
> I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is
> it ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any
> ability to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt
> whether I will have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.


Well, there are two or three things you need to know.
1) AFAIK, the new 3-series (E90) is currently not available with AWD,
although you may be able to get the previous model (E46) still.
2) You're probably not going to get much price movement on the
new model - from BMW or any other manufacturer for that matter.
If you do, look for a price about 1/2 way between MSRP and invoice;
usually $1000-$2000. Note that BMW dealers usually make their cut
on options; there is less room in the markup than other makes.
3) You can get deals on ordered cars - I did. I have one of the
very few 330xi's without a sunroof in the US; probably fewer than 100.
4) BMW does allow you to order options that aren't available in
the US brochure; like cloth seats, no sunroof (the E90 in the US
comes with it standard), etc. However, you have to find a dealer
who is willing to do the extra work...

Floyd
  #3  
Old July 22nd 05, 03:56 PM
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Don't know why you'd want AWD, but the E90 AWD sedans will be available
in October (according to the latest dealer bulletin).

Around here (New England) the E90 is selling slowly - dealers have lots
of stock, and are pressuring customers to buy. I'm sure deals are easy
to get - in the range of $1k to $2k off MSRP. I didn't push hard
myself, since I like the E46 so much more than the E90.

At least half of BMWs are custom ordered. Ordering is easy - pick what
you want, they build it, you can track it's progress on the Internet,
and your car arrives at the dealer 6 weeks or so later. There is no
extra charge - you pay the same thing. (In fact, if you pick up your
custom ordered car in Germany, you pay LESS). Unless you absolutely
need a car right now today, there is no downside to a custom order at
all. In fact there's are big advantages - you get exactly what you
want, and the dealer doesn't have a chance to add extra crap like
"paint protectant".

You might be able to custom order a E90 AWD starting in September -
that's when cars start being produced.

  #4  
Old July 22nd 05, 06:01 PM
J Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Amanda Robin" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all--
>
> I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
> homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
> Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.
>
> I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is
> it ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any
> ability to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt
> whether I will have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.
>
> This is a pretty basic question, but I haven't seen it addressed on the
> car buying sites. I have just sort of assumed that you can only bargain
> well if you can convince them that you will walk away if you don't get a
> reasonable deal. (Do you have to pay something down when ordering a car,
> by the way?)
>
> You might be interested to know that when I requested one of those
> competitive quotes over the Internet (I think this one was from Kelly),
> the BMW dealer in a large city in TX quoted me exactly MSRP.




Do they
> think people are dumb, or is an 06 Bimmer hot enough that it's
> non-negotiable right now?
>


1.) No, they don't think people are dumb.
2.) No, the BMW is not non-negotiable.
3.) They are never in a million years give you the Best Price on the first
contact. They'll give you a price that they will let the car out the door at
without any fuss whatsoever, but if you want to engage in a negotiation,
they are going to start from a high point, not a low one.
4.) If you won't buy for MSRP, the next guy will, good luck. Your ability to
negotiate a price on an '05 is better than on an '06.








  #5  
Old July 22nd 05, 06:06 PM
J Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
...
> "Amanda Robin" > wrote
>> I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
>> homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
>> Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.
>>
>> I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is it
>> ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any ability
>> to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt whether I will
>> have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.

>
> Well, there are two or three things you need to know.
> 1) AFAIK, the new 3-series (E90) is currently not available with AWD,
> although you may be able to get the previous model (E46) still.
> 2) You're probably not going to get much price movement on the
> new model - from BMW or any other manufacturer for that matter.
> If you do, look for a price about 1/2 way between MSRP and invoice;
> usually $1000-$2000. Note that BMW dealers usually make their cut
> on options; there is less room in the markup than other makes.
> 3) You can get deals on ordered cars - I did. I have one of the
> very few 330xi's without a sunroof in the US; probably fewer than 100.



Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?

This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.





> 4) BMW does allow you to order options that aren't available in
> the US brochure; like cloth seats, no sunroof (the E90 in the US
> comes with it standard), etc. However, you have to find a dealer
> who is willing to do the extra work...
>
> Floyd



  #6  
Old July 22nd 05, 07:56 PM
Pete
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Posts: n/a
Default


"J Strickland" wrote
>
> Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?


I deliberatly bought an A4 without it. I was going to order one like that,
but then the dealer was able to locate a car with the exact options I needed
(pretty much every other option minus sunroof) at another dealer lot.

I had an Accord before, with a sunroof, and never used it, so that's why I
didn't want it. There are also issues sometimes with the sunroof acting up
on its own and/or leaking water - didn't need any of that either. Finally,
you get more headroom space without a sunroof.

Maybe the issues I mentioned do not pertain to BMW, but those were my
reasons.

Pete


  #7  
Old July 22nd 05, 09:03 PM
Kevin Rhodes
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Posts: n/a
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>Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?
>
>This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
>not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.


Biggest reason for me would be the lack of headroom in cars so equiped. I am
fairly tall, but EXTREMELY long in the torso - I flat don't fit comfortably
in most European cars with sunroofs. Getting rid of the sunroof gives an extra
1-2" of headroom. Which is too bad as I would rather have one!

Kevin Rhodes
Westbrook, Maine
91 318is - no sunroof - with headroom
00 Saab 9-5 - with sunroof, without headroom
74 Triumph Spitfire - infinite headroom :-)
  #8  
Old July 22nd 05, 10:55 PM
John Carrier
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Posts: n/a
Default

A few observations. The price will depend on the local market. If dealer
stock is gathering water spots on the lot, negotiation is possible. If
turnover is rapid, probably not. If a particular model is desirable, many
dealers will tack on a "market adjustment."

BMW has no holdback (typically 2 - 2 1/2 percent of MSRP or Base price), so
the sticker has no hidden profit behind it. (There are occasional dealer
incentives on selected models, check the internet.) Some dealers have to
pay so much per car into an advertising program (some pass it on to the
customer, some eat it, but either way it affects the price).

Yes, you can negotiate a special order car. Expect to make a deposit.

I'd approach it this way. Tell the dealer what the invoice on the car you
want is and explain your idea of a reasonable profit for him and the
indicated final price. Be realistic, he's got to make at least $1500-2000
on the car even if he's high volume ... There's overhead to meet. See if he
buys into your logic.

R / John

"Amanda Robin" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all--
>
> I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
> homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
> Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.
>
> I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is
> it ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any
> ability to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt
> whether I will have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.
>
> This is a pretty basic question, but I haven't seen it addressed on the
> car buying sites. I have just sort of assumed that you can only bargain
> well if you can convince them that you will walk away if you don't get a
> reasonable deal. (Do you have to pay something down when ordering a car,
> by the way?)
>
> You might be interested to know that when I requested one of those
> competitive quotes over the Internet (I think this one was from Kelly),
> the BMW dealer in a large city in TX quoted me exactly MSRP. Do they
> think people are dumb, or is an 06 Bimmer hot enough that it's
> non-negotiable right now?
>
> Thanks for any comments,
>
> Amanda



  #9  
Old July 22nd 05, 11:41 PM
Somebody.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
> A few observations. The price will depend on the local market. If dealer
> stock is gathering water spots on the lot, negotiation is possible. If
> turnover is rapid, probably not. If a particular model is desirable, many
> dealers will tack on a "market adjustment."
>
> BMW has no holdback (typically 2 - 2 1/2 percent of MSRP or Base price),

so
> the sticker has no hidden profit behind it. (There are occasional dealer
> incentives on selected models, check the internet.) Some dealers have to
> pay so much per car into an advertising program (some pass it on to the
> customer, some eat it, but either way it affects the price).
>
> Yes, you can negotiate a special order car. Expect to make a deposit.
>
> I'd approach it this way. Tell the dealer what the invoice on the car you
> want is and explain your idea of a reasonable profit for him and the
> indicated final price. Be realistic, he's got to make at least $1500-2000
> on the car even if he's high volume ... There's overhead to meet. See if

he
> buys into your logic.
>
> R / John


The correct approach, I'd say. If dealer a) won't, dealer b) might. And
they all will at a certain number. Just buy from whoever goes the lowest,
if you know the invoice.

No harm in a moderate drive to pick it up, if it saves you lots. Service
can still be at your local dealer.

-Russ.


  #10  
Old July 23rd 05, 12:27 AM
fbloogyudsr
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Kevin Rhodes" > wrote
>>Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?
>>
>>This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
>>not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.

>
> Biggest reason for me would be the lack of headroom in cars so equiped. I
> am
> fairly tall, but EXTREMELY long in the torso - I flat don't fit
> comfortably
> in most European cars with sunroofs. Getting rid of the sunroof gives an
> extra
> 1-2" of headroom. Which is too bad as I would rather have one!


Exactly. Almost 2" headroom for us long-torso'd people is important.
Also, I live in Seattle; the car spends much time in the mts. in snow,
and I have to use a/c year-round to clear the fog from the windows anyway.
It's also about 10 lbs lighter.

Floyd

 




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