A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto newsgroups » Driving
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

I got my 2nd speeding ticket. What should I do?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 5th 04, 12:46 AM
Arif Khokar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I got my 2nd speeding ticket. What should I do?

truckinsp wrote:

>>Cite? If crashes went up, and people were driving at higher speeds,
>>then why did deaths go down?


> Because people really WEREN'T driving faster....the Highway Patrol made it
> VERY clear that anyone driving over 85 mph was going to get cited....


If they weren't driving faster, then why did crashes go up?

> http://leg.state.mt.us/content/audit/download/98|-11.pdf


I tried removing the |- as well leaving them in the link. Both result
in a 404 error on that site.
Ads
  #2  
Old December 5th 04, 02:21 AM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:35:12 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:20:03 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:43:21 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:35:52 GMT, "truckinsp" <truckinsp@ nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>I suggest telling me where I supposedly am wrong instead of whining about
>>>>>'social irresponsibility'. You can't? Too bad.
>>>>
>>>>>Chris
>>>>
>>>>YAAWWNN.....again a TOTALLY predictable post......you are pretty much what
>>>>is wrong with your type of poster.....no ability to analyze facts, no
>>>>intelligence to convince others you have a valid viewpoint....no creativity
>>>>to make you even worth bothering with.......
>>>
>>>He analyzed the facts just fine. The autobahn operates at a much higher speed
>>>than American Interstate highways and has a lower death rate. You're the one
>>>that isn't doing any analysis, and is just making "noise"...

>>
>>You can't seriously believe that the higher speed limit it=s the
>>deciding factor here, can you?

>
>Yeah - the insanely low speed limits in this country cause a speed differential
>between those that are petrified that they'll get a ticket and those that are
>driving a reasonable speed. The speed differential causes the accidents.


Well, I'm sorry to be one of the people to tell you this, but you're
just wrong.
The speed differential exists on the autobahns, too, so there goes
that theory.
>
>Plus, the high speeds on the autobahn keep the people that are clueless off of
>it entirely - they're scared.


Right. I suppose you have something to lend weight to this?
>
>And, as was shown by the Montana experience, where they eliminated their speed
>limit, people tend to fasten their seat belt when they know that theyre going
>to cruise at 90+, or someone close to them is. Their deathrates didn't
>skyrocket as the hand-wringers predicted, either.


The carnage that was predicted when the national 55 limit was lifted
didn;t happen. Yet, the carnage continues unabated.
Discuss this in 500 words or less.
>
>>>Fact is, the low speed limits are mostly for the purpose of raising revenue,
>>>and are a widespread form of government corruption in the USA.

>>
>>And all those other drivers out there are who you want to be going 90+
>>with?

>
>Back in the old days the Kansas turnpike was posted at 80, and a whole pile of
>people were 90+. Didn't bother me a bit.


Wow! I'm really glad to hear that. Are you somehow representative of
all drivers out there? Even the ones who don't know what they're
doing?
>
>>They are barely safe at the limits we have now.

>
>BS. That's the Nanny-state talking. Everybody's an idiot. We're gonna save
>you from everything, everywhere, all the time. BS, I say.


Well, let's hear you actually address the facts that there are a *LOT*
of **** poor drivers out there.
You want to just let them drive faster?
>
>>Higher limits won't
>>make them any safer, they will only make them worse.

>
>Michigan's death rate went down when they returned from 55 mph to, I think, 70
>due mostly to the lessening of the speed differential, probably with a dose of
>"crashed while bored to death" thrown in. This was repeated in other states
>with either a lowering of the death rate or a failure of the death rate to go
>up. The handwringers always came out with statistics to the contrary, but when
>examined, the stats were always something like "raw death" without taking into
>account the increased miles being driven every year. Etc. etc.


Yet the carnage continues.
>
>The hand-wringers are almost always wrong - environmental handwringers want to
>bankrupt the country by sending all our money to the F'in Arabs when we could
>divert some of it to the good people in the ANWR oil fields in Alaska, the
>global warming handwringers want to totally destroy our economy by eliminating
>most of our driving and most of our electrical generation, throwing people into
>a permanent "camping at home" due to rolling blackouts to save electricity -
>there's a handwringer for every purpose that have in common doing the wrong
>thing in reaction to a perceived and generally false threat.


So who's killing the people on our roads? The F'in Arabs? The global
warming handwringers?
Wake up. IT'S THE BAD DRIVERS WHOM YOU WANT TO LET GO FASTER.
Maybe, if you oisten, you'll understand why the autobahns are safer,
but I doubt it. You don't want to understand, you just want to go
faster. It evidently hasn't occured to you that the drivers there are
different from the drivers here. The government looks at driving
different, and is, actually, a lot more nanny-like than here. And the
autobahn is safer for it.
MAke of that what you will, but at least think about it.
>
>Dave Head
>>>
>>>Dave Head
>>>>


--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #3  
Old December 5th 04, 02:45 AM
Arif Khokar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Big Bill wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:35:12 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:


>>And, as was shown by the Montana experience, where they eliminated their speed
>>limit, people tend to fasten their seat belt when they know that theyre going
>>to cruise at 90+, or someone close to them is. Their deathrates didn't
>>skyrocket as the hand-wringers predicted, either.


> The carnage that was predicted when the national 55 limit was lifted
> didn;t happen. Yet, the carnage continues unabated.


If that were the case, then the fatality rate would not continue to decline.

For instance, let's say that there is a certain degree of probability of
a bad outcome when engaging in a certain activity (such as driving). It
stands to reason that the longer you engage in the activity
(cumulitively), the more likely you'll experience a bad outcome. Also,
the more people who engage in this activity at the same time, the more
likely a bad outcome will occur.

Now, if the fatality rate and crash rates stayed the same for the last
15 years, then we obviously would have a given percentage increase in
the total number of those bad outcomes that would correspond to the
percentage increase in the total VMT. The fact that this is not the
case shows that the carnage is abating to some extent.

> Well, let's hear you actually address the facts that there are a *LOT*
> of **** poor drivers out there.
> You want to just let them drive faster?


Who says that they aren't driving faster already? A speed limit that
has less than 1% compliance has no bearing whatsoever on actual traffic
speeds. Changes in the limit do not have a linear relationship with
changes in traffic speed. If the limit increases by 5 mph, the 85th
percentile speed increases by 1.5 mph. If the limit is raised 10 mph,
the 85th percentile speed increases by 4 mph (according to statistics
obtained from the WVDOT).
  #4  
Old December 5th 04, 03:08 AM
Matthew Russotto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
Olaf Gustafson > wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 06:47:27 GMT, Christopher Green >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>You will need a defense, one that casts doubt on the speed you were
>>radared or paced at. It may be difficult, because the OC toll roads
>>are paradise for law enforcement: light traffic, perfect sight lines,
>>an abundance of victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdrivers who blow off the speed
>>limit.

>
>There is no strikeout "character" in ASCII. This is a newsgroup, not
>a web page.


Character 8 is Backspace, and the "^H" thing has been a Usenet
convention since long before the Web existed.



  #5  
Old December 5th 04, 03:47 AM
truckinsp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> http://leg.state.mt.us/content/audit/download/98|-11.pdf


>I tried removing the |- as well leaving them in the link. Both result
>in a 404 error on that site.


Well, search google on Montana crash statistics speed limit..... or see if
this will work......

[PDF] Montana Speed Limit Analysis
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
.... 1997 by the National Center for Statistics and Analysis ... of the week,
vehicle type,
and type of crash. ... ACCIDENTS In a large majority of Montana cases,
several ...
leg.state.mt.us/content/audit/download/98l-11.pdf - Similar pages




  #6  
Old December 5th 04, 04:29 AM
Garth Almgren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Around 12/4/2004 6:47 PM, truckinsp wrote:

>> truckinsp wrote:
>>
>>> Arif wrote:
>>>
>>>>Cite? If crashes went up, and people were driving at higher speeds,
>>>>then why did deaths go down?
>>>
>>>
>>> Because people really WEREN'T driving faster...


Not much, anyway. You see, the posted limit really has very little
effect on the safe speed people choose for themselves.

Judging by the Rural Interstate Speed chart on page nine of the below
PDF, 80 MPH would not have been an inappropriate posted speed limit for
Montana's rural interstates in 1997. In 1987, a posted 70 MPH limit
might have been adequate, although I'm willing to bet that with a 70 MPH
posted limit the 85th percentile speeds would have crept up to 1997
levels much quicker.

>>> .the Highway Patrol made it
>>> VERY clear that anyone driving over 85 mph was going to get cited....
>>> <snip>


> [PDF] Montana Speed Limit Analysis
> http://leg.state.mt.us/content/audit...oad/98l-11.pdf


Well, I couldn't find anything in your cite to support your claim about
the highway patrol ticketing over 85 MPH, but it does have a few
interesting things to say about Montana's period of "reasonable and
prudent" Interstates.

I think the summary at the beginning says most of what needs to be said:
* Average measured speeds on urban Interstate highways remained constant
between 55-60 mph.
[Not surprising]

* Average measured speeds on rural Interstate highways have been
increasing and are currently 67 mph.
[Not surprising]

*Annual vehicle miles traveled increased steadily. Number of accidents
and fatalities per million vehicle miles decreased.
[Bingo! Despite no posted speed limit, slightly higher travel speeds,
and VMT "increas[ing] steadily", the collision and fatality rates were
on their way down, meaning the roads were safer for everyone]

* The first seven months of 1997 had increases in both the number of
fatal accidents and fatalities compared to 1996.
[And yet the rates kept going down. This is _exactly_ why raw numbers
aren't as good as the statistical rates]

*Majority of fatal accidents and total accidents are occurring on
non-Interstate highways.
['Nuff said]



--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
  #7  
Old December 5th 04, 02:09 PM
truckinsp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


>Well, I couldn't find anything in your cite to support your claim about
>the highway patrol ticketing over 85 MPH, but it does have a few
>interesting things to say about Montana's period of "reasonable and
>prudent" Interstates.


>I think the summary at the beginning says most of what needs to be said:
>* Average measured speeds on urban Interstate highways remained constant
>between 55-60 mph.
>[Not surprising]


>* Average measured speeds on rural Interstate highways have been
>increasing and are currently 67 mph.
>[Not surprising]


>*Annual vehicle miles traveled increased steadily. Number of accidents
>and fatalities per million vehicle miles decreased.
>[Bingo! Despite no posted speed limit, slightly higher travel speeds,
>and VMT "increas[ing] steadily", the collision and fatality rates were
>on their way down, meaning the roads were safer for everyone]


>* The first seven months of 1997 had increases in both the number of
>fatal accidents and fatalities compared to 1996.
>[And yet the rates kept going down. This is _exactly_ why raw numbers
>aren't as good as the statistical rates]


>*Majority of fatal accidents and total accidents are occurring on
>non-Interstate highways.
>['Nuff said]



Sounds like you TOTALLY missed the point. The point is that everyone points
to Montana's experiment as a reason to increase speed limits. Even with NO
speed limits, Montanans drive slower so the median never reached the high
speeds you guys claim you drive.....and there are VERY good reasons for
that. If you've ever been to Montana, you know they have snowy weather 8
months of the year, there are no long wide open roads in MT because of the
mountains, those road that are fairly straight have high winds, etc......so
Montana experiment ISN'T a good excuse for higher speed limits......

Montana traditionally has more deaths on non-interstate roads.....you need
to look at a map....most of the small towns aren't connected by interstates
and MT's are used to driving long distances on two lane roads....hell half
the two lane roads in MT aren't even paved.....Montana also has 7
reservations and on the res's the natives do not have to follow traffic regs
so deaths are also higher on the res's....if you REALLY want to see what
it's like to live without traffic regs, move there.......

I'm from MT and my family still lives there......they are the ones that told
me they were bombarded with the messages from MHP about anything over 85 mph
not being considered reasonable and prudent.......


  #8  
Old December 5th 04, 04:27 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 01:45:49 GMT, Arif Khokar >
wrote:

>Big Bill wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:35:12 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:

>
>>>And, as was shown by the Montana experience, where they eliminated their speed
>>>limit, people tend to fasten their seat belt when they know that theyre going
>>>to cruise at 90+, or someone close to them is. Their deathrates didn't
>>>skyrocket as the hand-wringers predicted, either.

>
>> The carnage that was predicted when the national 55 limit was lifted
>> didn;t happen. Yet, the carnage continues unabated.

>
>If that were the case, then the fatality rate would not continue to decline.


Hyperbole isn't recognized well.
>
>For instance, let's say that there is a certain degree of probability of
>a bad outcome when engaging in a certain activity (such as driving). It
>stands to reason that the longer you engage in the activity
>(cumulitively), the more likely you'll experience a bad outcome. Also,
>the more people who engage in this activity at the same time, the more
>likely a bad outcome will occur.
>
>Now, if the fatality rate and crash rates stayed the same for the last
>15 years, then we obviously would have a given percentage increase in
>the total number of those bad outcomes that would correspond to the
>percentage increase in the total VMT. The fact that this is not the
>case shows that the carnage is abating to some extent.
>
>> Well, let's hear you actually address the facts that there are a *LOT*
>> of **** poor drivers out there.
>> You want to just let them drive faster?

>
>Who says that they aren't driving faster already? A speed limit that
>has less than 1% compliance has no bearing whatsoever on actual traffic
>speeds. Changes in the limit do not have a linear relationship with
>changes in traffic speed. If the limit increases by 5 mph, the 85th
>percentile speed increases by 1.5 mph. If the limit is raised 10 mph,
>the 85th percentile speed increases by 4 mph (according to statistics
>obtained from the WVDOT).


Now, that's hyperbole. I recognize it. :-)

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #9  
Old December 5th 04, 06:14 PM
Arif Khokar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

truckinsp wrote:

>>there are no long wide open roads in MT because of the

> mountains,


WV, with it's lack of long wide open roads has an 85th percentile speeds
ranging from 71 to 76 mph on its interstates.
  #10  
Old December 6th 04, 03:37 AM
Christopher Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:29:13 -0700, Olaf Gustafson >
wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 06:47:27 GMT, Christopher Green >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>You will need a defense, one that casts doubt on the speed you were
>>radared or paced at. It may be difficult, because the OC toll roads
>>are paradise for law enforcement: light traffic, perfect sight lines,
>>an abundance of victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdrivers who blow off the speed
>>limit.

>
>There is no strikeout "character" in ASCII. This is a newsgroup, not
>a web page.


To history-impaired readers, know that this is an old convention
indicating that I meant "victims" but wrote "drivers".

--
Chris Green
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Traffic Ticket in Toronto HDR BMW 17 December 7th 04 04:08 AM
Subject: Traffic School - online traffic school experience response [email protected] Corvette 0 October 9th 04 05:56 PM
And I thought my ticket for 93 in a 40 limit was bad Rufio Corvette 2 September 26th 04 03:36 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.