92 Saturn SL1 Maintenance Question

I've got a '92 Saturn SL1 w/ 100K of urban driving on it. Several months
ago I took it to a dealer for routine service. Part of the service was a
tire rotation. I told them I just had the tires rotated just do the rest of
the service but don't rotate the tires and don't charge me for rotating the
tires. They replied they can't perform the scheduled maintenance w/o
rotating the tires again. The maintenance wasn't done only an oil change
was done. My question is does the drive train need to lubricated? What
about the front end CV joints? The standard shift mechanism has become
stiff and the door locks are harder to open. What should I use to lubricate
the locks and shifter?

Thanks,

Mike

IMHO you need to find a dealer who will do what YOU request. It is your
money any they should be happy to do anything YOU want. I cannot imagine
that this car is covered by any warranty and as a low mileage (for it's age)
car would be expected to need special extra maintenance due to its lack of
normal use and city driving. I would recommend short engine oil change
intervals. You do not say what your climate conditions are but corrosion is
likely to be causing more problems than wear.

AFAIK there are no lube points on the drive train but age may cause the CV
joint boots to deteriorate and they should be checked regularly (at each oil
change or any time grease shows up in your wheels, wheel wells or under the
car).

I suspect that this car is in need of a half life major servicing. Don't
let anyone sell you special fuel flushes or anything expensive but do the
simple and inexpensive stuff.

I would recommend a transmission fluid (and filter if autotrans) change as
this is cheap preventative maintenance. While you are at it change the
power steering fluid. Likewise the engine coolant could probably use a
change. Any oil will work for lock strikers and latches but there are some
specialty lubes that will not collect dust or oil your clothing, you should
also lube the hinge pins on the doors and hood, and wipers. The shifter
cables and linkage may need to be disassembled to lubricate properly and are
likewise probably suffering from lack of use.

Use only correct lock lube for the key locks and ignition, most garages will
not have this lube but any locksmith can help you.

You may expect brake system problems due to old brake fluid, I would
recommend a change of fluid if this has never been done. You are probably
due for parking brake cable problems, not much you can do about it but do
not be surprised and service them if you need to do anything with your rear
brakes.

If you still have the original accessory belt (used to be called fan belt)
they are cheap ($15) and can be changed in about 15 minutes. Save the old
one for a spare, it is a perfect fit around the spare tire.

You may be due for new plug wires if they have not been changed. Save the
old ones for spares, they will also fit with the spare tire.

Find a mechanic that understands older cars and will do what YOU need. A
dealer may be more interested in convincing you that it is time to trade for
new or (shudder) newer but slightly?? used. Better to stay with what you
know. This car has depreciated about as much as it is going to and has lots
of life left if kept oiled properly.

"Mike" > wrote in message
news:d2Hwe.6530$Ku6.5596@trnddc04...
> I've got a '92 Saturn SL1 w/ 100K of urban driving on it. Several months
> ago I took it to a dealer for routine service. Part of the service was a
> tire rotation. I told them I just had the tires rotated just do the rest
of
> the service but don't rotate the tires and don't charge me for rotating
the
> tires. They replied they can't perform the scheduled maintenance w/o
> rotating the tires again. The maintenance wasn't done only an oil change
> was done. My question is does the drive train need to lubricated? What
> about the front end CV joints? The standard shift mechanism has become
> stiff and the door locks are harder to open. What should I use to
lubricate
> the locks and shifter?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>

No, it's not covered by any warranty. However, I faithfully have it
serviced. The last scheduled maintenance was somewhere around 100K - rotate
tires, lube locks, and I don't remember what else. They weren't trying to
sell me extra work, just perform the scheduled eminence, which I always have
done. They wanted me to pay for a tire rotation which was done by the
dealer. I drive 5K - 6k a year and change the oil every 3 - months. I
live in the mid Atlantic region snowy winters and hot humid summers. I use
Castrol GTX 5w - 30w. Been thinking to changing to 10w - 30w. I don't buy
oil or gas additives. It;s a standard transmission at 69K I had the tranny
oil changed, The dealer told me tranny oil lasts a lifetime, yeah right.
Flush the coolant every 30k, been thinking I should flush it more frequently
due the low annual mileage. Plug wires and fan belt changed around around
three years ago., break fluid changed about four years ago. I'm going to
look for a mechanic and dump the dealer. What is half life maintenance?

The car is almost perfect for urban driving eg, easy to park, don't worry
about dings, reasonable gas mileage, etc. I hope to get a couple more years
out of it. It's got some rust around the roof where it meets too sunroof
and I've managed to destroy the plastic grid under the bumper by head in
parking to close the curb. A friend has a 2001 or 2002 Toyota Camry that
I'm going to buy in a year or so.

Thank you for your very helpful advice,

Mike


"private" > wrote in message
news:qeKwe.1831814$Xk.572721@pd7tw3no...
> IMHO you need to find a dealer who will do what YOU request. It is your
> money any they should be happy to do anything YOU want. I cannot imagine
> that this car is covered by any warranty and as a low mileage (for it's
> age)
> car would be expected to need special extra maintenance due to its lack of
> normal use and city driving. I would recommend short engine oil change
> intervals. You do not say what your climate conditions are but corrosion
> is
> likely to be causing more problems than wear.
>
> AFAIK there are no lube points on the drive train but age may cause the CV
> joint boots to deteriorate and they should be checked regularly (at each
> oil
> change or any time grease shows up in your wheels, wheel wells or under
> the
> car).
>
> I suspect that this car is in need of a half life major servicing. Don't
> let anyone sell you special fuel flushes or anything expensive but do the
> simple and inexpensive stuff.
>
> I would recommend a transmission fluid (and filter if autotrans) change as
> this is cheap preventative maintenance. While you are at it change the
> power steering fluid. Likewise the engine coolant could probably use a
> change. Any oil will work for lock strikers and latches but there are
> some
> specialty lubes that will not collect dust or oil your clothing, you
> should
> also lube the hinge pins on the doors and hood, and wipers. The shifter
> cables and linkage may need to be disassembled to lubricate properly and
> are
> likewise probably suffering from lack of use.
>
> Use only correct lock lube for the key locks and ignition, most garages
> will
> not have this lube but any locksmith can help you.
>
> You may expect brake system problems due to old brake fluid, I would
> recommend a change of fluid if this has never been done. You are probably
> due for parking brake cable problems, not much you can do about it but do
> not be surprised and service them if you need to do anything with your
> rear
> brakes.
>
> If you still have the original accessory belt (used to be called fan belt)
> they are cheap ($15) and can be changed in about 15 minutes. Save the old
> one for a spare, it is a perfect fit around the spare tire.
>
> You may be due for new plug wires if they have not been changed. Save the
> old ones for spares, they will also fit with the spare tire.
>
> Find a mechanic that understands older cars and will do what YOU need. A
> dealer may be more interested in convincing you that it is time to trade
> for
> new or (shudder) newer but slightly?? used. Better to stay with what you
> know. This car has depreciated about as much as it is going to and has
> lots
> of life left if kept oiled properly.
>
> "Mike" > wrote in message
> news:d2Hwe.6530$Ku6.5596@trnddc04...
>> I've got a '92 Saturn SL1 w/ 100K of urban driving on it. Several
>> months
>> ago I took it to a dealer for routine service. Part of the service was a
>> tire rotation. I told them I just had the tires rotated just do the rest
> of
>> the service but don't rotate the tires and don't charge me for rotating
> the
>> tires. They replied they can't perform the scheduled maintenance w/o
>> rotating the tires again. The maintenance wasn't done only an oil change
>> was done. My question is does the drive train need to lubricated? What
>> about the front end CV joints? The standard shift mechanism has become
>> stiff and the door locks are harder to open. What should I use to
> lubricate
>> the locks and shifter?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Mike" > wrote in message
news:GYHxe.12936$Fn4.732@trnddc06...
> No, it's not covered by any warranty. However, I faithfully have it
> serviced. The last scheduled maintenance was somewhere around 100K -
rotate
> tires, lube locks, and I don't remember what else. They weren't trying to
> sell me extra work, just perform the scheduled eminence, which I always
have
> done. They wanted me to pay for a tire rotation which was done by the
> dealer. I drive 5K - 6k a year and change the oil every 3 - months.

This is great, you could probably stretch this a little in the summer but is
ideal for winter. (If this was mostly highway I would only change spring
and fall. You could do spring and fall and one midwinter.)

> but I
> live in the mid Atlantic region snowy winters and hot humid summers. I
use
> Castrol GTX 5w - 30w. Been thinking to changing to 10w - 30w.

10w30 may be better for summer if consumption is a problem (or puffs oil on
startup) but if not then IMHO just keep using 5w30 year round.

> I don't buy
> oil or gas additives.

Good, you do not need them.

> It;s a standard transmission

Great, keep your feet on the floor and do not ever rest your foot on the
clutch, do not use the clutch as a brake, (brakes are lots cheaper than
clutches). Be gentle on the cluch pulling away from stopped, up shift under
3500 rpm (smoothly, do not slam shift) and your sycros will last forever.
My wife has 150k mi on her original clutch but mostly highway driving.

> at 69K I had the tranny
> oil changed, The dealer told me tranny oil lasts a lifetime, yeah right.

I agree with you. The tranny only holds 2.5 lt and is easy to change (pay
by the hour at time of other oil change). The first two changes are the
most important to get rid of the break in wear metal but I like to continue
to change at about 50k mi intervals.

> Flush the coolant every 30k, been thinking I should flush it more
frequently
> due the low annual mileage.

Std glycol is great for two years and good for more within reason. Your
interval is fine and a LOT better than most people..

> Plug wires and fan belt changed around around
> three years ago.,

These should last you for several more years. (with luck)

> break fluid changed about four years ago.

Good, brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air. Do
not open the reservoir unless you need to add fluid and only use fluid from
a new unopened container. Your brake resevoir is plastic? so you can check
the level without opening. If you need to add fluid then you have a leak
that should be found and repaired.

> I'm going to
> look for a mechanic and dump the dealer.

Good help is hard to find.

> What is half life maintenance?

When a machine gets to be old enough that you think it is at about half its
ultimate life, (and you intend to keep it) you stand back and assess the
components that have given good service but will be unlikely to last the
rest of the machine's life. If you will need to replace these components
sometime you can change them now and the replacement should last the rest of
the cars life. From the sounds of your maintenace program you have already
done most of them. As always the first rule is that "if it ain't broke
don't fix it"
The next time you change plugs do a compression check, a leakdown check is
even better.
Have your mechanic inspect all the rubber hoses for cracking or brittleness
or hardness. Pay particular attention to the small induction air and vacuum
control hoses. Check the PCV valve and the air filter (or change, it is
cheap, but I bet you have already done this). Check the EGR valve (for free
operation). Inspect the motor mount rubber (I doubt you have a problem but
many report deterioration of the upper motor mounts, which I have always
suspected was caused by lack of smoothness when shifting gears) Check the
exaust and mounts and pay particular attention to the muffler strap that is
prone to corrosion. (I have had better service from the (several) coat
hanger wires on mine than I got from the correct strap. If this strap fails
the muffler will ride on the rear axle and may be easily damaged or lost.
I usually replace the fuel filter at this point but on the Saturn the filter
is (relatively)VERY expensive and the fuel line connections are somewhat
funky. If you have been using clean fuel I would wait until you have a
(fuel pressure) problem. (Indicated by missing, running out of gas at full
throttle, high load, uphill)
Brake pads are a usage dependant maintenance item. Wait until they are worn
then use good quality pads and NEW (offshore, cheap OK) rotors (do not
machine turn or grind). I have had problems with severe rotor corrosion on
original rotors. Use nevrsieze on caliper slides.

> The car is almost perfect for urban driving eg, easy to park, don't worry
> about dings, reasonable gas mileage, etc. I hope to get a couple more
years
> out of it.

We have had good sevice from both of our SW1s, and have found them very
functional.

> It's got some rust around the roof where it meets too sunroof

I do not like sunroof due to problems with rust (under rubber seal) and
leakage.
Sounds like rust (or accident) will be what will determine the life of your
car. Keep on top of the paint and do not allow rust to go untreated. I
would be removing any bad paint or rust and doing spot repair with some kind
of antirust or heavy oil. I have had good luck with this if done regularly
and have lately been experimenting with heavy oil foundation coating and
roofing tar. I am a little worried about the oil pan as mine has been beat
up by gravel and is showing corrosion. It seems impossible that an oil pan
could rust through but I have heard of this occuring to others.

> and I've managed to destroy the plastic grid under the bumper by head in
> parking to close the curb.

We all have this problem, the short precast curb blocks that are anchored
by steel pins that stick up above the curb are the worst. I have given up
replacing the under rad plastic and have noticed no overheating but YMMV.

> A friend has a 2001 or 2002 Toyota Camry that
> I'm going to buy in a year or so.

I have no personal experience with Toyota but have had good reports.

I do not know how old the car was when you got it but it seems to me that
you have taken very very good care of this car and should expect LOTS more
good service. I would not be in any hurry to change. The devil you know
and all that!!
The only expensive thing you should be prepared for is a clutch and that is
mostly driver dependant. I do not think anyone can predict this and I do
not know what is the max that can be achieved in your service.

>
> Thank you for your very helpful advice,
>
> Mike

Happy trails.
>
> "private" > wrote in message
> news:qeKwe.1831814$Xk.572721@pd7tw3no...
> > IMHO you need to find a dealer who will do what YOU request. It is your
> > money any they should be happy to do anything YOU want. I cannot
imagine
snip

"private" > wrote in message
news:5ylye.158284$El.41097@pd7tw1no...
>
> 10w30 may be better for summer if consumption is a problem (or puffs oil
> on
> startup) but if not then IMHO just keep using 5w30 year round.

It burns about a quart of oil every two months.
>
>> I don't buy
>> oil or gas additives.
>
> Good, you do not need them.
>
> > It;s a standard transmission
>
> Great, keep your feet on the floor and do not ever rest your foot on the
> clutch, do not use the clutch as a brake, (brakes are lots cheaper than
> clutches). Be gentle on the cluch pulling away from stopped, up shift
> under
> 3500 rpm (smoothly, do not slam shift) and your sycros will last forever.
> My wife has 150k mi on her original clutch but mostly highway driving.

I really don't notice anyy change in the clutch or how it reacts. A buddy
got 180K out of his clutch on a
92 SL1 (highway driving)
>
>> at 69K I had the tranny
>> oil changed, The dealer told me tranny oil lasts a lifetime, yeah right.
>
> I agree with you. The tranny only holds 2.5 lt and is easy to change (pay
> by the hour at time of other oil change). The first two changes are the
> most important to get rid of the break in wear metal but I like to
> continue
> to change at about 50k mi intervals.

"This is helpful, I'll make not to change it around 19K more miles.
>
>> Flush the coolant every 30k, been thinking I should flush it more
> frequently
>> due the low annual mileage.
>
> Std glycol is great for two years and good for more within reason. Your
> interval is fine and a LOT better than most people..
>
>> Plug wires and fan belt changed around around
>> three years ago.,
>
> These should last you for several more years. (with luck)
>
> > break fluid changed about four years ago.
>
> Good, brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air.
> Do
> not open the reservoir unless you need to add fluid and only use fluid
> from
> a new unopened container. Your brake resevoir is plastic? so you can
> check
> the level without opening. If you need to add fluid then you have a leak
> that should be found and repaired.

OK
>
>> I'm going to
>> look for a mechanic and dump the dealer.
>
> Good help is hard to find.
>
>> What is half life maintenance?
>
> When a machine gets to be old enough that you think it is at about half
> its
> ultimate life, (and you intend to keep it) you stand back and assess the
> components that have given good service but will be unlikely to last the
> rest of the machine's life. If you will need to replace these components
> sometime you can change them now and the replacement should last the rest
> of
> the cars life. From the sounds of your maintenace program you have
> already
> done most of them. As always the first rule is that "if it ain't broke
> don't fix it"
> The next time you change plugs do a compression check, a leakdown check is
> even better.

Will do.

> Have your mechanic inspect all the rubber hoses for cracking or
> brittleness
> or hardness. Pay particular attention to the small induction air and
> vacuum
> control hoses.

Radiator hoses changed last year.

Check the PCV valve and the air filter (or change, it is
> cheap, but I bet you have already done this). Check the EGR valve (for
> free
> operation).

Last year, changed EGR vALve and cannisters due engine error code.
Don't remember about the PCV valve.

Inspect the motor mount rubber (I doubt you have a problem but
> many report deterioration of the upper motor mounts, which I have always
> suspected was caused by lack of smoothness when shifting gears)

Will do.

Check the
> exaust and mounts and pay particular attention to the muffler strap that
> is
> prone to corrosion. (I have had better service from the (several) coat
> hanger wires on mine than I got from the correct strap. If this strap
> fails
> the muffler will ride on the rear axle and may be easily damaged or lost.

Will check.

> I usually replace the fuel filter at this point but on the Saturn the
> filter
> is (relatively)VERY expensive and the fuel line connections are somewhat
> funky. If you have been using clean fuel I would wait until you have a
> (fuel pressure) problem. (Indicated by missing, running out of gas at
> full
> throttle, high load, uphill)

Fuel filter replacement was part of the scheduled maintenance that was not
performed
during my last service visit.

> Brake pads are a usage dependant maintenance item. Wait until they are
> worn
> then use good quality pads and NEW (offshore, cheap OK) rotors (do not
> machine turn or grind). I have had problems with severe rotor corrosion
> on
> original rotors. Use nevrsieze on caliper slides.

The original rotors gave me a fit. If I didn't use the car for a couple of
weeks the brakes would stick
and I had toengage the clutch and gas to break them use.
>
>> The car is almost perfect for urban driving eg, easy to park, don't worry
>> about dings, reasonable gas mileage, etc. I hope to get a couple more
> years
>> out of it.
>
> We have had good sevice from both of our SW1s, and have found them very
> functional.
>
>> It's got some rust around the roof where it meets too sunroof
>
> I do not like sunroof due to problems with rust (under rubber seal) and
> leakage.
> Sounds like rust (or accident) will be what will determine the life of
> your
> car. Keep on top of the paint and do not allow rust to go untreated. I
> would be removing any bad paint or rust and doing spot repair with some
> kind
> of antirust or heavy oil. I have had good luck with this if done
> regularly
> and have lately been experimenting with heavy oil foundation coating and
> roofing tar. I am a little worried about the oil pan as mine has been
> beat
> up by gravel and is showing corrosion. It seems impossible that an oil
> pan
> could rust through but I have heard of this occuring to others.

I've been negligent w3ith the body work and need to get it taken care of.
>
>> and I've managed to destroy the plastic grid under the bumper by head in
>> parking to close the curb.
>
> We all have this problem, the short precast curb blocks that are anchored
> by steel pins that stick up above the curb are the worst. I have given up
> replacing the under rad plastic and have noticed no overheating but YMMV.

My only concern is the plastic grid seems to be designed to protect the air
conditioning coils.
>
>> A friend has a 2001 or 2002 Toyota Camry that
>> I'm going to buy in a year or so.
>
> I have no personal experience with Toyota but have had good reports.
>
> I do not know how old the car was when you got it but it seems to me that
> you have taken very very good care of this car and should expect LOTS more
> good service. I would not be in any hurry to change. The devil you know
> and all that!!

I bought it six years ago from a friend who had it routinely serviced at a
dealer.

> The only expensive thing you should be prepared for is a clutch and that
> is
> mostly driver dependant. I do not think anyone can predict this and I do
> not know what is the max that can be achieved in your service.

How much will it cost to replace the fuel filter or the clutch?
>
>>
>> Thank you for your very helpful advice,
>>
>> Mike
>
> Happy trails.
>>
Mike

>
>

"Mike" > wrote in message
news:N%Hye.12292$Fy4.6677@trnddc04...
>
> "private" > wrote in message
> news:5ylye.158284$El.41097@pd7tw1no...
> >
> > 10w30 may be better for summer if consumption is a problem (or puffs oil
> > on
> > startup) but if not then IMHO just keep using 5w30 year round.
>
> It burns about a quart of oil every two months.

@ 5-6000 mi / yr this = 1 qt / 850-1000 mi

This is not really excesive oil consumption (in the old days we said that a
V8 engine that didn't burn this much was too tight) but it is more than we
experience or like. I normally add a quart every 2200 mi when I use high
quality oil. I recently tried some Walmart Tech2000 oil 5w30 just as a test
and used the first quart in 1650 mi and the second at 1350 mi. Went back to
higher price oil and used 1/2 a qt in 1700 mi. I would think that the
difference is due to the city/highway different usage.

When the car was new I would change all the oil when it was down a qt but
now I add a little then change when down a qt. I aim for 3600 mi/change.

snip
> I really don't notice anyy change in the clutch or how it reacts. A
buddy
> got 180K out of his clutch on a
> 92 SL1 (highway driving)

good news for me now at 145k

snip
> My only concern is the plastic grid seems to be designed to protect the
air
> conditioning coils.

valid concern

snip
> I bought it six years ago from a friend who had it routinely serviced at a
> dealer.

good used is a valid strategy especially if you know the previous owner and
can trust the history.

snip
> How much will it cost to replace the fuel filter or the clutch?

The fuel filter is over $100 + 1/2 hr shop labor approx.

The clutch is a real wild card and really depends on how badly the garage
wants to beat you up. Make sure you get firm quotes for all labor and
expect to change the clutch, preasure plate and probably re-face/grind the
flywheel. DO replace the release bearing when it is apart.

The good news about a clutch job is that it is a lot cheeper than a rebuilt
automatic (and usually lasts longer) the R&R labor is about the same as an
auto but the parts are a lot less and there is a high early failure rate
with rebuilt auto trannys.

> > Happy trails.