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Turbo miata showing hot temperatures
My miata has started to run hot according to the temp gauge, which is
not too surprising considering that we are already hitting close to 100 degrees. The car has a turbo running 9 pounds of boost, a large intercooler, and has no accessories like A/C or power steering. The temp gauge has been linearized (if someone could give a quick explanation of what exactly this means I would appreciate it). Anyway, the gauge goes up, but not past the water mark on the high end, and will actually get cooler sometimes when I apply boost. I used a friends red dot thermometer while the car's gauge was showing hot, and everything was running pretty cool from the engine to the headers to the intercooler, turbo, radiator, etc. The car also seems to be running identically to the way it was before the gauge started reading high, and the TEC-3 computer is showing no codes to indicate anything is wrong. My first guess is a faulty gauge, but the fact that it is running hotter just as the temperatures are soaring seems to be too much of a coincidence. The car also has an exhaust temp. gauge that is showing normal readings. I need to do some research on the power list, but I was hoping someone could offer some quick suggestions as to where to start. I was thinking about checking the gauge first, replacing the thermostat and/or trying to increase airflow into the engine compartment. If anyone has a link to an aftermarket temp gauge that shows numbers that will replace the stock gauge in the same location, that would be great as well. Thanks! Pat Here are some of the engine details if it matters: '94 1.8L bottom end (8.8:1 compression) '99 head & intake manifold ARP head studs ACT Extreme clutch Flyin' Miata/Fidanza lighthweight flywheel '99 Torsen differential (4.3:1), '00 axles & driveshaft Flyin' Miata aluminum radiator Coolant reroute to exit at rear of head Mazdaspeed motor mounts Linearized temp gauge, tach modified for quicker response No AC, no PS Tec3 ECU with latest software running full sequential Momo steering wheel 5 point harnesses in addition to factory belts CD player & headrest speakers Boost (in eyeball vent) & EGT (below stereo) gauges Garrett ball bearing GT2871R turbo w/ ATP turbo T3 .86 A/R exhaust housing Tial 40mm external wastegate w/ .4 bar spring ETD Racing "shorty" turbo header Custom downpipe by Corky Bell w/ flex sections & wastegate joined in at Cat Racing Mazda 3" high flow cat, bolt-in Enthuza Racing 3" single outlet turbo exhaust 18"x8"x3" bar & plate intercooler from Bell Intercoolers Silicone hose couplings, T-bolt clamps Vishnu dual feed fuel rail RC 550cc/min injectors |
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#2
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Quick check: is your front license plate mounted right in front of the
air-intake? That was my problem. When the ambient air temperature got above about 30 Celsius the engine started running hot. I tried everything - changing the thermostat and even the rad etc etc. It turned out to be the restricted air-intake because of the position of the license plate (why on earth did they put it right in front of the air-intake?!) Moving the plate onto the nose using http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id/222 finally solved the problem. Eric |
#3
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Eric Baber wrote:
> Quick check: is your front license plate mounted right in front of the > air-intake? That was my problem. When the ambient air temperature got above > about 30 Celsius the engine started running hot. I tried everything - > changing the thermostat and even the rad etc etc. It turned out to be the > restricted air-intake because of the position of the license plate (why on > earth did they put it right in front of the air-intake?!) > > Moving the plate onto the nose using > http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id/222 finally solved > the problem. > > Eric > > Hi Eric, there is no front license plate on this car most of the time. We are supposed to have one installed in Texas, but I have been driving here in Austin, TX for 20 years and have never been pulled over for no front license plate by local police. The highway patrol has enforced it on me, though with a warning each time, so I usually put it back on when taking trips out of town, especially to South Texas. pat |
#4
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pws > wrote:
>My miata has started to run hot according to the temp gauge, which is >not too surprising considering that we are already hitting close to 100 >degrees. Maybe crap build up in de cooling circuit? Mine was running hot, but after de coolant burst through the heater hose, it is actually running cool. I guess the burst blew some of the crap out. > The car has a turbo running 9 pounds of boost, a large >intercooler, and has no accessories like A/C or power steering. The temp >gauge has been linearized (if someone could give a quick explanation of >what exactly this means I would appreciate it). I can offer a pretty good guess. As discussed before, the Miata temp gauge is sitting in the center position from when the coolant is luke warm until just before the steam pressure blows up the engine. That is called a nonlinear response. I would assume a linearized gauge is one that shows the *true* temperature. >Anyway, the gauge goes up, but not past the water mark on the high end, >and will actually get cooler sometimes when I apply boost. I used a >friends red dot thermometer while the car's gauge was showing hot, and >everything was running pretty cool from the engine to the headers to the >intercooler, turbo, radiator, etc. The car also seems to be running >identically to the way it was before the gauge started reading high, and >the TEC-3 computer is showing no codes to indicate anything is wrong. I would think that the Tec is right. You are just seeing the *true* temperatures for the first time. Then again, I could be wrong and you buy a new engine. > My first guess is a faulty gauge, but the fact that it is running >hotter just as the temperatures are soaring seems to be too much of a >coincidence. The car also has an exhaust temp. gauge that is showing >normal readings. Not related. >I need to do some research on the power list, but I was hoping someone >could offer some quick suggestions as to where to start. I was thinking >about checking the gauge first, replacing the thermostat and/or trying >to increase airflow into the engine compartment. >If anyone has a link to an aftermarket temp gauge that shows numbers >that will replace the stock gauge in the same location, that would be >great as well. That is of course the way to go. But if I knew one, it would probably already be on my car. (Assuming it looks the same as OEM.) Leon -- Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) REMOVE THE "z"s -> www.dommelen.net "EXIT THE INTERSTATES" (Jamie Jensen) |
#5
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Leon van Dommelen wrote:
> I would think that the Tec is right. You are just seeing the *true* > temperatures for the first time. > > Then again, I could be wrong and you buy a new engine. Come on Leon, when have you, (or a computer), ever been wrong? ;-) > That is of course the way to go. But if I knew one, it would probably > already be on my car. (Assuming it looks the same as OEM.) > > Leon It seems like VDO, Autometer, or one of the other gauge companies would see a big enough market for an OEM-look replacement temp gauge with numbers for the miata since there are so many enthusiasts out there. However, like you, I have never seen one. I would definitely pay $50.00 to $100.00 for one if it becomes available. Thanks Leon, I'll check the cooling circuit and thermostat first. Pat |
#6
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>>I need to do some research on the power list, but I was hoping someone >>could offer some quick suggestions as to where to start. I was thinking >>about checking the gauge first, replacing the thermostat and/or trying >>to increase airflow into the engine compartment. >>If anyone has a link to an aftermarket temp gauge that shows numbers >>that will replace the stock gauge in the same location, that would be >>great as well. Not a gauge, but Davis Instrument manufactures a gizmo (Carchip E/X) that plugs into the car's ODB II port and records trip data and up to four engine parameters (if the vehicle is ODB II compliant, like a stock Miata is) You can download trip data for analysis on any PC. It is a trip and driver monitor, so use with caution unless you want to find out if your significant other is driving around with the rev limiter pegged. Only complaint I have about it is that I can't put back the dash cove unless you cut finger recess molding on it, that that hole is mostly invisible anyway. You can pick one up at Autozone or Sears, and of course, Ebay. |
#7
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M. Cantera wrote:
> > Not a gauge, but Davis Instrument manufactures a gizmo (Carchip E/X) > that plugs into the car's ODB II port and records trip data and up to > four engine parameters (if the vehicle is ODB II compliant, like a > stock Miata is) > > You can download trip data for analysis on any PC. It is a trip and > driver monitor, so use with caution unless you want to find out if > your significant other is driving around with the rev limiter pegged. > > Only complaint I have about it is that I can't put back the dash cove > unless you cut finger recess molding on it, that that hole is mostly > invisible anyway. > > You can pick one up at Autozone or Sears, and of course, Ebay. This is a heavily modified miata with a Tec-3 engine management system. I haven't looked at all of the features it has yet, but it probably monitors top speeds and that sort of thing, it seems to do everything else from adjusting the turbo boost levels, the timing, the air/fuel mixture, fuel flow per injector, etc, etc., all from a laptop showing the engine working in real time using a dashboard gauge layout, it is really very cool. You can have the passenger make adjustments to the timing as you drive to see the immediate effects, something that is obviously impossible with the stock setup. There is no more factory rev limiter, you use the computer to set it anywhere from way below the miata's stock max rpm all the way up to 20,000 rpm, though I believe that I would have a smoking ruin of an engine long before then. ;-) I have it set at 7500 rpm max right now. No significant other to worry about right now, my miata's babe magnet seems to be malfunctioning. I'll have it checked out next week. :-) Pat |
#8
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I've glanced at the specs of that unit not too long ago (user's manual
mostly) I do remenber this: That unit allows you to map and modify the engine behavior (or screw it up royally) using a laptop on the fly. Back to the original topic about running hot: I do remeber the trigger points of the cooling fan are settable (to do this it has to monitor the coolant temperature, that is a standard ODB II parameter). and the user's manual has a table of the datastream (i.e. the byte order for a scan cycle and what they are, so you can monitor anything that is hooked up to the control unit) with a reference to outputinig the data to other applications, such as a spreadsheed. it may require some figuring out, but you should be able to get listing of whatever your engine is doing (it many help if you know any control systems engineers) I did not see any refences to connecting a windows CE or Palm Pilot device as a handheld monitoring and logging device though I thing that would be very usefull for monitoring operating conditions. Good luck On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 04:27:31 GMT, pws > wrote: > >This is a heavily modified miata with a Tec-3 engine management system. >I haven't looked at all of the features it has yet, but it probably >monitors top speeds and that sort of thing, it seems to do everything >else from adjusting the turbo boost levels, the timing, the air/fuel >mixture, fuel flow per injector, etc, etc., all from a laptop showing >the engine working in real time using a dashboard gauge layout, it is >really very cool. >You can have the passenger make adjustments to the timing as you drive >to see the immediate effects, something that is obviously impossible >with the stock setup. >There is no more factory rev limiter, you use the computer to set it >anywhere from way below the miata's stock max rpm all the way up to >20,000 rpm, though I believe that I would have a smoking ruin of an >engine long before then. ;-) I have it set at 7500 rpm max right now. > >No significant other to worry about right now, my miata's babe magnet >seems to be malfunctioning. I'll have it checked out next week. :-) > >Pat |
#9
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pws > wrote:
>M. Cantera wrote: > >> >> Not a gauge, but Davis Instrument manufactures a gizmo (Carchip E/X) >> that plugs into the car's ODB II port and records trip data and up to >> four engine parameters (if the vehicle is ODB II compliant, like a >> stock Miata is) >> >> You can download trip data for analysis on any PC. It is a trip and >> driver monitor, so use with caution unless you want to find out if >> your significant other is driving around with the rev limiter pegged. >> >> Only complaint I have about it is that I can't put back the dash cove >> unless you cut finger recess molding on it, that that hole is mostly >> invisible anyway. >> >> You can pick one up at Autozone or Sears, and of course, Ebay. > > >This is a heavily modified miata with a Tec-3 engine management system. >I haven't looked at all of the features it has yet, but it probably >monitors top speeds and that sort of thing, it seems to do everything >else from adjusting the turbo boost levels, the timing, the air/fuel >mixture, fuel flow per injector, etc, etc., all from a laptop showing >the engine working in real time using a dashboard gauge layout, it is >really very cool. If it like my Link ECU, it also outputs coolant temperature. Leon >You can have the passenger make adjustments to the timing as you drive >to see the immediate effects, something that is obviously impossible >with the stock setup. >There is no more factory rev limiter, you use the computer to set it >anywhere from way below the miata's stock max rpm all the way up to >20,000 rpm, though I believe that I would have a smoking ruin of an >engine long before then. ;-) I have it set at 7500 rpm max right now. > >No significant other to worry about right now, my miata's babe magnet >seems to be malfunctioning. I'll have it checked out next week. :-) > >Pat -- Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) |
#10
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Leon van Dommelen wrote:
> > If it like my Link ECU, it also outputs coolant temperature. > > Leon > I haven't had as much time to check it out as I would like, but I should have time to look at it soon and learn some more about it. As a test, I took out the driver's side turn signal and noticed immediate cooling improvement (according to the gauge) once I reached speed. It is still creeping up at stop lights, but not dangerously so, and I have a feeling that, as you said, I am simply seeing a true reading of the temp since the gauge is now "linearized" (without numbers, grrrr....), and it makes sense for it to go up some during a stop in this extremely hot weather even with the fans working properly. Just as a side note on the temp gauge, my friend's GMC pickup has a gauge that shows actual numbers and registers hotter or cooler according to temperature, so I am assuming it is linearized instead of an idiot gauge. I guess neither Mazda nor the aftermarket auto gauge companies can manage to accomplish such a feat for us. Pat |
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