Finally pulled the engine in my 1303!

I've been threatening to do this for ages now, but finally managed to
get around to it. It's the first time I've removed an engine from a
Beetle, and I have to say it really IS as easy as people say! It took
me about 45 minutes on my own, which I don't think is too bad at all.
I used Jan's excellent guide to help me: http://www.geocities.com/bugfuel/engineremoval.html
(thanks, Jan!)

Now the engine is out, I think I have found the cause of the failure.
One of the circlips holding the gudgeon pin in #4 cylinder had come
out of its groove and was scoring against the cylinder wall causing a
couple of rather deep grooves. Lo and behold, it was also #4 with the
knocking bearing. The engine was converted from 1300 to 1600 in 1995
(although less than 10,000 miles ago), so who knows how long this
problem had been there for.

http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine08.JPG
http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine09.JPG

I also found that the cylinders are 85.5mm, so that is 1584cc! The
registration document simply states 1600, so I didn't know if it was a
1584 or 1641. One mystery solved!

Also, I'd like to get an opinion on these cylinder heads:

http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine10.JPG

Obviously, it would be crazy to bolt them up to a set of brand new
pistons and cylinders. Any suggestions on what needs doing to them?

Howard Rose wrote:
> I've been threatening to do this for ages now, but finally managed to
> get around to it. It's the first time I've removed an engine from a
> Beetle, and I have to say it really IS as easy as people say! It took
> me about 45 minutes on my own, which I don't think is too bad at all.
> I used Jan's excellent guide to help me: http://www.geocities.com/bugfuel/engineremoval.html
> (thanks, Jan!)


You're most welcome, Howard


> Now the engine is out, I think I have found the cause of the failure.
> One of the circlips holding the gudgeon pin

(Piston wrist pin, for those unfortunate few who live in the US...)



> in #4 cylinder had come
> out of its groove and was scoring against the cylinder wall causing a
> couple of rather deep grooves. Lo and behold, it was also #4 with the
> knocking bearing. The engine was converted from 1300 to 1600 in 1995
> (although less than 10,000 miles ago), so who knows how long this
> problem had been there for.




> http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine08.JPG
> http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine09.JPG

Nice. A missing clip does something similar, but even deeper. When the
pin wears against the cylinder wall Not that I would know anything
about it first hand.


> Also, I'd like to get an opinion on these cylinder heads:
>
> http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine10.JPG
>
> Obviously, it would be crazy to bolt them up to a set of brand new
> pistons and cylinders. Any suggestions on what needs doing to them?

clean them up real good and look for hairline cracks between valve
seats, as well as seats and plug holes. Small cracke between seats are
acceptable, but you really don't want any going from the seat to the
plug hole. Unfortunately, these are common. Very faint ones will hold
out for a long time in a stock engine, but they will eventually grow,
causing stripped plug holes.

Measure the valves, they should all be equally long. If there's anything
wrong with any valves, replace them all.

Check the guides, the valve should not wobble sideways much at all.

To piggy back on Jan's reply...

Have the heads checked out at a machine shop...new valves and valve guides
is always good, especially if rebuilding a motor. It can reduce the chance
of things going bad in a recently rebuilt motor. if a valve guide slips
out of the head.... well, it gets shoved back in and shattering it, ruining
the piston and cylinder... I know. been there had it happen.

--
vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
dragenwagen
1966 Type I
http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
"Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
"Jan" > wrote in message
...
> Howard Rose wrote:
>> I've been threatening to do this for ages now, but finally managed to
>> get around to it. It's the first time I've removed an engine from a
>> Beetle, and I have to say it really IS as easy as people say! It took
>> me about 45 minutes on my own, which I don't think is too bad at all.
>> I used Jan's excellent guide to help me:
>> http://www.geocities.com/bugfuel/engineremoval.html
>> (thanks, Jan!)
>
>
> You're most welcome, Howard
>
>
>> Now the engine is out, I think I have found the cause of the failure.
>> One of the circlips holding the gudgeon pin
>
> (Piston wrist pin, for those unfortunate few who live in the US...)
>
>
>
>> in #4 cylinder had come
>> out of its groove and was scoring against the cylinder wall causing a
>> couple of rather deep grooves. Lo and behold, it was also #4 with the
>> knocking bearing. The engine was converted from 1300 to 1600 in 1995
>> (although less than 10,000 miles ago), so who knows how long this
>> problem had been there for.
>
>
>
>
>> http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine08.JPG
>> http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine09.JPG
>
> Nice. A missing clip does something similar, but even deeper. When the pin
> wears against the cylinder wall Not that I would know anything about it
> first hand.
>
>
>> Also, I'd like to get an opinion on these cylinder heads:
>>
>> http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine10.JPG
>>
>> Obviously, it would be crazy to bolt them up to a set of brand new
>> pistons and cylinders. Any suggestions on what needs doing to them?
>
> clean them up real good and look for hairline cracks between valve seats,
> as well as seats and plug holes. Small cracke between seats are
> acceptable, but you really don't want any going from the seat to the plug
> hole. Unfortunately, these are common. Very faint ones will hold out for a
> long time in a stock engine, but they will eventually grow, causing
> stripped plug holes.
>
> Measure the valves, they should all be equally long. If there's anything
> wrong with any valves, replace them all.
>
> Check the guides, the valve should not wobble sideways much at all.

On 23 May, 04:46, "dragenwagen" > wrote:
> To piggy back on Jan's reply...
>
> Have the heads checked out at a machine shop...new valves and valve guides
> is always good, especially if rebuilding a motor. It can reduce the chance
> of things going bad in a recently rebuilt motor. if a valve guide slips
> out of the head.... well, it gets shoved back in and shattering it, ruining
> the piston and cylinder... I know. been there had it happen.
>
> --
> vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
> dragenwagen
> 1966 Type Ihttp://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
> "Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
> vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw"Jan" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Howard Rose wrote:
> >> I've been threatening to do this for ages now, but finally managed to
> >> get around to it. It's the first time I've removed an engine from a
> >> Beetle, and I have to say it really IS as easy as people say! It took
> >> me about 45 minutes on my own, which I don't think is too bad at all.
> >> I used Jan's excellent guide to help me:
> >>http://www.geocities.com/bugfuel/engineremoval.html
> >> (thanks, Jan!)
>
> > You're most welcome, Howard
>
> >> Now the engine is out, I think I have found the cause of the failure.
> >> One of the circlips holding the gudgeon pin
>
> > (Piston wrist pin, for those unfortunate few who live in the US...)
>
> >> in #4 cylinder had come
> >> out of its groove and was scoring against the cylinder wall causing a
> >> couple of rather deep grooves. Lo and behold, it was also #4 with the
> >> knocking bearing. The engine was converted from 1300 to 1600 in 1995
> >> (although less than 10,000 miles ago), so who knows how long this
> >> problem had been there for.
>
> >>http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine08.JPG
> >>http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine09.JPG
>
> > Nice. A missing clip does something similar, but even deeper. When the pin
> > wears against the cylinder wall Not that I would know anything about it
> > first hand.
>
> >> Also, I'd like to get an opinion on these cylinder heads:
>
> >>http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vz/engine/engine10.JPG
>
> >> Obviously, it would be crazy to bolt them up to a set of brand new
> >> pistons and cylinders. Any suggestions on what needs doing to them?
>
> > clean them up real good and look for hairline cracks between valve seats,
> > as well as seats and plug holes. Small cracke between seats are
> > acceptable, but you really don't want any going from the seat to the plug
> > hole. Unfortunately, these are common. Very faint ones will hold out for a
> > long time in a stock engine, but they will eventually grow, causing
> > stripped plug holes.
>
> > Measure the valves, they should all be equally long. If there's anything
> > wrong with any valves, replace them all.
>
> > Check the guides, the valve should not wobble sideways much at all.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the replies :-)

What should I use to clean the valves and combustion chambers?

I would take them to a machine shop, however due to a new job
(hooray!) I am going to be moving to London in two weeks... so I need
the car back together ASAP! The valves don't have any detectable
movement and the heads have less than 10K miles on them. Hopefully
I'll just be able to clean them up, check for cracks and bolt them
on...

I also bought a big box-o-parts today, new 1584 barrels and pistons,
oil pump, pushrod tubes, engine gasket set and a new engine bay seal.
Over the last few days I have also repainted most of the tinware.

Is it worth giving the finned area on the barrels a quick spray of
high-temperature paint? They always seem to rust quite quickly.

> What should I use to clean the valves and combustion chambers?
>

Carb cleaner will clean up the loose stuff with the aid of an old
toothbrush. However, I wouldn't worry too much about it, having seen
the picture they look pretty good to me. Just make sure the outer edge
that mates up against the edge of the cylinder is clean.

> the car back together ASAP! The valves don't have any detectable
> movement and the heads have less than 10K miles on them. Hopefully
> I'll just be able to clean them up, check for cracks and bolt them
> on...

Make sure you torque them correctly. After you check the deck height
with your new pistons/cylinders, of course. And you can't do that
until you take the piston/cylinder sets apart and clean them.....

> I also bought a big box-o-parts today, new 1584 barrels and pistons,
> oil pump, pushrod tubes, engine gasket set and a new engine bay seal.
> Over the last few days I have also repainted most of the tinware.
>
> Is it worth giving the finned area on the barrels a quick spray of
> high-temperature paint? They always seem to rust quite quickly.

I don't know if the spray will get down into the grooves between the
cooling fins all that well. It would probably be better to use a brush
so you can hit the edges of the fins a little better. You can paint
the pushrod tubes as well, just tape off the end where the seal goes.
Make sure you use the white german pushrod tube seals upon reassembly
if you want to keep the leaks away. The red seals don't, at least in
my experience. Every engine I've had with the red seals leaked from
the pushrod tubes. All 8 tubes, on both ends. You could try putting
the red ones on with a thin layer of sealant if you have to use them,
it will certainly be better than using no sealant. You'll want to
clean up the sealing surface on the block and the head a bit to ensure
a leak-free fit.

If your gasket set came with the paper gasket that goes between the
block and the base of the cylinder, throw them away. They don't work.
Personally, I use ultra black RTV around the base of the cylinder to
seal the junction between the case and the cylinder. Put a bead of
sealer at the base of the bottom fin and when you install the
cylinders it will seal up that junction just fine. Don't forget to
install the air deflector between the two cylinders.

Also, since you have the engine out, I would suggest checking the
crankshaft endplay. If it is out of spec now is the time to fix it.

Good luck with it.

Chris

> Have the heads checked out at a machine shop...new valves and
> valve guides is always good, especially if rebuilding a motor. It
> can reduce the chance of things going bad in a recently rebuilt
> motor. if a valve guide slips out of the head.... well, it gets
> shoved back in and shattering it, ruining the piston and
> cylinder... I know. been there had it happen.
> dragenwagen
> 1966 Type I

Never seen that one.

Helping my dad rebuild one I told him to replace both heads after
one "sucked a valve".

210 miles after the rebuild... :/

He gave me the 73 squareback, finally believing me, old air cooled
VWs are for air cooled VW fanatics. When I sold it ~5 years
later, got lots of calls, single gals with kids even, wouldn't sell
it until an other dumb-ol' air-cooled guy called. Never was a
time when everything on that car worked, all at the same time.

The speedometer cable went to buzzing on the trip to town to
deliever it, had to stop and disconnect it. He bought it and
explained to -me-how to drill an oil hole etc. That's why I
waited for "his" call.

Jan's "wobbly" valve guides can be found on the "rebuilt" heads too.
Went through a whole stack of them at Chirco one time (~10 years
ago) and never found a single head that had all four valve guides
renewed.

I worked with a guy that had done that type of work.
Fuel pumps.

The first thing they did was test them...
if they worked and didn't leak, they went through a cleaning process
and got boxed up. Cool huh?

Alvin in AZ

wrote:
>>Have the heads checked out at a machine shop...new valves and
>>valve guides is always good, especially if rebuilding a motor. It
>>can reduce the chance of things going bad in a recently rebuilt
>>motor. if a valve guide slips out of the head.... well, it gets
>>shoved back in and shattering it, ruining the piston and
>>cylinder... I know. been there had it happen.
>>dragenwagen
>>1966 Type I
>
>
> Never seen that one.


I caught one just in time, it had loosened up and fallen through into
the intake port. Nothing broke yet as far as I can remember, but the
valve would have snapped soon I'm sure.

jan