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94 Caravan - fuel pump won't run



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 17th 04, 04:38 AM
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Default 94 Caravan - fuel pump won't run

The van has been sitting for a while, but started fine 2 weeks ago. A
few days ago it cranked fine, but the fuel pump didn't do the normal
2-second pressure up when the key was first turned on.

I can get the fuel pump to run if I jumper the fuel pump relay, so the
wiring to the pump and the pump itself seem to be OK. I tried swapping
the ASD relay with others (they all have the same PN, and all show the
same resistance between the coil terminals), but nothing. I tried
jumpering from B+ to the coil +, still nothing.

What else can I try? Is there a fuel pressure sensor that thinks the
pressure is up, so doesn't tell the pump to run? I don't think it's
the Hall effect, since it doesn't come into play until it starts
cranking.

Thanks
KC

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  #2  
Old December 17th 04, 04:40 AM
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I forgot to specify engine - it's the 3.0 V6.
KC

  #3  
Old December 17th 04, 04:40 AM
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I forgot to specify engine - it's the 3.0 V6.
KC

  #4  
Old December 17th 04, 05:50 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 wrote:

> I can get the fuel pump to run if I jumper the fuel pump relay, so the
> wiring to the pump and the pump itself seem to be OK. I tried swapping
> the ASD relay with others (they all have the same PN, and all show the
> same resistance between the coil terminals), but nothing. I tried
> jumpering from B+ to the coil +, still nothing. What else can I try?


Remove the 60-pin connector from the SBEC and inspect the pins and sockets
for corrosion; clean the pins by pushing a pencil eraser straight down
onto each pin, and packing the sockets full of Ox-Gard or Noalox.

Check all of the fusible links carefully; it sounds like one or more of
them may have popped. Of course if this is the case you'll have to find
the cause or the new link will pop, too.

> Is there a fuel pressure sensor


No.

> I don't think it's the Hall effect, since it doesn't come into play
> until it starts cranking.


I don't think it's the Hall Effect Pickup, since the 3.0 doesn't use one.
The 3.0 does tend to develop problems with the *optical* pickup in the
distributor, and with the wiring between the distributor and the SBEC, so
you can check for that by disconnecting the battery negative cable for a
few minutes, reconnecting it, cranking the engine and then checking the
flash codes. However, that probably isn't the problem since you say the
fuel pump isn't energized with initial key-on.

To check the computer codes:

With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on,
leaving it "ON". Do not
go to "start", just "on" during this procedure.

Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go
off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored.
For instance, if it flashes:

flash <pause> flash flash
<long pause>
flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash
<long pause>
flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash

Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a
55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes
stored. Check the codes and report what you find.


  #5  
Old December 17th 04, 05:50 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 wrote:

> I can get the fuel pump to run if I jumper the fuel pump relay, so the
> wiring to the pump and the pump itself seem to be OK. I tried swapping
> the ASD relay with others (they all have the same PN, and all show the
> same resistance between the coil terminals), but nothing. I tried
> jumpering from B+ to the coil +, still nothing. What else can I try?


Remove the 60-pin connector from the SBEC and inspect the pins and sockets
for corrosion; clean the pins by pushing a pencil eraser straight down
onto each pin, and packing the sockets full of Ox-Gard or Noalox.

Check all of the fusible links carefully; it sounds like one or more of
them may have popped. Of course if this is the case you'll have to find
the cause or the new link will pop, too.

> Is there a fuel pressure sensor


No.

> I don't think it's the Hall effect, since it doesn't come into play
> until it starts cranking.


I don't think it's the Hall Effect Pickup, since the 3.0 doesn't use one.
The 3.0 does tend to develop problems with the *optical* pickup in the
distributor, and with the wiring between the distributor and the SBEC, so
you can check for that by disconnecting the battery negative cable for a
few minutes, reconnecting it, cranking the engine and then checking the
flash codes. However, that probably isn't the problem since you say the
fuel pump isn't energized with initial key-on.

To check the computer codes:

With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on,
leaving it "ON". Do not
go to "start", just "on" during this procedure.

Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go
off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored.
For instance, if it flashes:

flash <pause> flash flash
<long pause>
flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash
<long pause>
flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash

Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a
55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes
stored. Check the codes and report what you find.


  #6  
Old December 17th 04, 09:46 PM
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> Remove the 60-pin connector from the SBEC and inspect the pins and

sockets
> for corrosion; clean the pins by pushing a pencil eraser straight

down
> onto each pin, and packing the sockets full of Ox-Gard or Noalox.
>
> Check all of the fusible links carefully; it sounds like one or more

of
> them may have popped. Of course if this is the case you'll have to

find
> the cause or the new link will pop, too.
>
> Check the codes and report what you find.


Thanks for the tips, Daniel. I'll try these tonight and hopefully get
it going. I wanted to donate it to my church (they in turn donate it
to those who need cars but can't afford them), but they won't take it
if it isn't running. And since I can't sell it (tried twice, can't
even get an offer at $800, and it's in pretty good shape), and it's not
doing me any good sitting in my driveway, this seemed like a good
option.

Just curious - what is it that tells the fuel pump to quit pumping
before the engine starts? The pressure regulator only holds the
pressure at a certain level and returns the excess back to the tank,
right? But that's with the pump running continuously. Something tells
it to stop when the key is on but the engine's not running.

KC

  #7  
Old December 17th 04, 09:46 PM
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Posts: n/a
Default


Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> Remove the 60-pin connector from the SBEC and inspect the pins and

sockets
> for corrosion; clean the pins by pushing a pencil eraser straight

down
> onto each pin, and packing the sockets full of Ox-Gard or Noalox.
>
> Check all of the fusible links carefully; it sounds like one or more

of
> them may have popped. Of course if this is the case you'll have to

find
> the cause or the new link will pop, too.
>
> Check the codes and report what you find.


Thanks for the tips, Daniel. I'll try these tonight and hopefully get
it going. I wanted to donate it to my church (they in turn donate it
to those who need cars but can't afford them), but they won't take it
if it isn't running. And since I can't sell it (tried twice, can't
even get an offer at $800, and it's in pretty good shape), and it's not
doing me any good sitting in my driveway, this seemed like a good
option.

Just curious - what is it that tells the fuel pump to quit pumping
before the engine starts? The pressure regulator only holds the
pressure at a certain level and returns the excess back to the tank,
right? But that's with the pump running continuously. Something tells
it to stop when the key is on but the engine's not running.

KC

  #10  
Old December 18th 04, 03:04 AM
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Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> Remove the 60-pin connector from the SBEC and inspect the pins and

sockets
> for corrosion; clean the pins by pushing a pencil eraser straight

down
> onto each pin, and packing the sockets full of Ox-Gard or Noalox.
>
> Check all of the fusible links carefully; it sounds like one or more

of
> them may have popped. Of course if this is the case you'll have to

find
> the cause or the new link will pop, too.
>
>
> To check the computer codes:
>
> With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on,
> leaving it "ON". Do not
> go to "start", just "on" during this procedure.
>
> Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on,

then go
> off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been

stored.

Update: removed the SBEC connector and cleaned it, didn't see any
signs of corrosion. While I had access, I unplugged and replugged all
the electrical connectors under the battery. Then put everything back
together. Still no fuel pump. Tried to get the codes to flash.
Several times. Nothing. Jumpered the fuel pump relay so the pump runs
whenever the key is on. Won't start. That indicates to me that
there's no spark. Verified that with a timing light. So am I down to
fusible links? The only one I saw was one to the alternator, so I must
not know where to look. Seems strange that the computer won't blink,
though - it should at least give the 55=end of codes, right? I'll go
back at it tomorrow, check any fusible links and the wiring to the
distributor.

KC

 




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