Caravan 41TE/a604 transmission repair suggestions...

My 1997 Grand Caravan ES (3.8L V6 4 speed OD 139,000 miles) was
developing a transmission problem (double thump when shifting into OD,
even when just letting off the gas and then resuming gas), so I took it
to my local dealer for a fluid change and control module diagnosis. It
was quiet and drivable otherwise.

The receipt from the dealer shows they found "worn out/burned trans
fluid" and it came back with a two failure codes (P1798 and P1799, which
the service writer said were wear and damage indicators in the
transmission itself).

In the final diagnosis of the service writer - it needs a rebuild or
replacement transmission.

Since the symptoms themselves seemed minor to me at the time, and not
thinking I was in desperate need of emergency repairs, I wanted to take
my time with the decision. So I drove it home and parked it for a week
to go on an out-of-state trip.

When I needed the Caravan the next weekend to tow my lightweight
one-bike motorcycle trailer on a short road trip, I went out on the
morning of the trip to the driveway to turn it around and hitch up the
trailer. As soon as it was running and I started moving, it made a bunch
of new noises - what sounded like quiet CV joint clicks at first, which
quickly turned into a nasty gnashing, clanking and rpm-matching clicks
as I rolled into the street in Drive. After about 10 yards it had
settled into a rhythmic clicking that was sort of like a much softer
version of shifting into Park while moving. As soon as I could get the
thing turned around, I got it back into my driveway.

So, now that it's not drivable at all - anyone have any recommendations
when it comes to which repair path to take?

Unless someone knows about some simple repair short of a complete
transmission overhaul - I'd certainly like to save some money if
possible ($4000 worst case scenario - new transmission and control
unit), and come away with the best high-mileage solution. I have no
desire or need to sell anytime soon, and feel fairly confident the rest
of the Caravan will get me to twice the current mileage before I tire of
it.

My choices as I see them:

A. Keep the original transmission and have the problems repaired at
whatever the usual dealer rates are and have only the usual 90 day
dealer warranty on the repairs.

B. Replace the transmission with a remanufactured transmission (from
Dodge) and get the factory 3 year warranty on the unit.

C. Replace the transmission myself with a low mileage used/junkyard
procured unit with no warranty.

D. To change or not to change the transmission control unit.

E. If I can save some money somewhere, do some mileage-based maintenance
while the transmission is out (preemptive CV joint replacement,
front-end suspension and steering bushings and joints, shocks). None of
the parts mentioned are worn out completely, but feel worn enough that I
wouldn't mind the freshening-up).

F. Some 'hidden warranty' will cover the repairs and I won't have to pay
a cent for the repairs <grin>.

Anyone with some experience have a moment to help guide me?

Mike G.
-

I had a 604 go bad in my Caravan 3 litre, and although mine is an '89,
I think my story may have some relevance:
The local transmission shop, which is reputable and fairly large,
wanted $1750 to replace my 604 with one of their rebuilds, which are
dyno-tested and warranteed, and includes new controller.
The van itself wasn't worth that much, but I liked the vehicle and
it's a cargo-type that I use for work.
I ended up having someone I figured knew what he was doing (an
automotive instructor with experience in these) overhaul mine for $1000.
It never did work right, and he took it apart again, twice, and _I
_finally resigned myself to the fact that I was going to have to go
somewhere else.
So I took it to the transmission shop I'd consulted originally (who'd
wanted $1750)
and told them the story, they took it apart and got it working right,
and charged me $946.00. (It was less than the original quote because
many of the hard parts & upgrades were already in place).
So anyway, in other words, with the $1000 I'd paid the other guy, and
now this $946, I've got $1946 in it: about $200 more than if I'd have
just hired the right people in the first place, not to mention the YEAR
of f%#@ing around with it not working right.
Moral of the story: spend the money and do it right, because it's a
bad idea to dink around and cut corners for SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
I might add, however, that IMO a _reputable_ trans shop may be a
viable alternative to buying one from Chrysler
(which I think would only add cost).
604's have been upgraded many times, and their controllers as well,
you want someone who really understands them, preferably who has evolved
with them. If you know a shop like that, that's where to go.
I found out the hard way.

"Mike Gladu" > wrote in message
...
> My 1997 Grand Caravan ES (3.8L V6 4 speed OD 139,000 miles) was
> developing a transmission problem (double thump when shifting into OD,
> even when just letting off the gas and then resuming gas), so I took it
> to my local dealer for a fluid change and control module diagnosis. It
> was quiet and drivable otherwise.
>
> The receipt from the dealer shows they found "worn out/burned trans
> fluid" and it came back with a two failure codes (P1798 and P1799, which
> the service writer said were wear and damage indicators in the
> transmission itself).
>
> In the final diagnosis of the service writer - it needs a rebuild or
> replacement transmission.
>
> Since the symptoms themselves seemed minor to me at the time, and not
> thinking I was in desperate need of emergency repairs, I wanted to take
> my time with the decision. So I drove it home and parked it for a week
> to go on an out-of-state trip.
>
> When I needed the Caravan the next weekend to tow my lightweight
> one-bike motorcycle trailer on a short road trip, I went out on the
> morning of the trip to the driveway to turn it around and hitch up the
> trailer. As soon as it was running and I started moving, it made a bunch
> of new noises - what sounded like quiet CV joint clicks at first, which
> quickly turned into a nasty gnashing, clanking and rpm-matching clicks
> as I rolled into the street in Drive. After about 10 yards it had
> settled into a rhythmic clicking that was sort of like a much softer
> version of shifting into Park while moving. As soon as I could get the
> thing turned around, I got it back into my driveway.
>
> So, now that it's not drivable at all - anyone have any recommendations
> when it comes to which repair path to take?
>
> Unless someone knows about some simple repair short of a complete
> transmission overhaul - I'd certainly like to save some money if
> possible ($4000 worst case scenario - new transmission and control
> unit), and come away with the best high-mileage solution. I have no
> desire or need to sell anytime soon, and feel fairly confident the rest
> of the Caravan will get me to twice the current mileage before I tire of
> it.
>
> My choices as I see them:
>
> A. Keep the original transmission and have the problems repaired at
> whatever the usual dealer rates are and have only the usual 90 day
> dealer warranty on the repairs.
>
> B. Replace the transmission with a remanufactured transmission (from
> Dodge) and get the factory 3 year warranty on the unit.
>
> C. Replace the transmission myself with a low mileage used/junkyard
> procured unit with no warranty.
>
> D. To change or not to change the transmission control unit.
>
> E. If I can save some money somewhere, do some mileage-based maintenance
> while the transmission is out (preemptive CV joint replacement,
> front-end suspension and steering bushings and joints, shocks). None of
> the parts mentioned are worn out completely, but feel worn enough that I
> wouldn't mind the freshening-up).
>
> F. Some 'hidden warranty' will cover the repairs and I won't have to pay
> a cent for the repairs <grin>.
>
> Anyone with some experience have a moment to help guide me?
>
> Mike G.
> -Am driving a chrysler rebuilt replacement second MOPAR replacement for my
truck replaced at 77,000 miles still good at 129,000 with 1 fluid change at
about 103,000. just input my unit was warrantied 5 50,000 due to it's
rplacing a tranny with about 38,000 miles. just more input.
thos

Also an other heads up.... These new OD trannys Chrysler are/is using run
the
tranny fluid a lot hotter then there old tried and true 904/727/999.
I have installed 518 OD in my truck and they { Tranny Experts }recommended
using an additional fluid cooler in conjunction with the one on the radiator
to keep
fluid cooler, Also I put on their aftermarket deeper tranny fluid pan to
give tranny
more fluid. Not had any problems with it. Also one more thing I am sure you
are
aware of and that is 1997 OD Trannys need to use ATF +3 type fluid. Regular
Dexron 3 doesn't have the additive necessary to keep tranny from self
destructing.
If someone put Dexron 3 ( not the ATF 3 ) in a OD tranny that would've
helped
the OD tranny along the path to it's own early death.
P.S. All Auto Transmissions should have their fluid and filter changed
every 30,000 miles.


"Mike Gladu" > wrote in message
...
> My 1997 Grand Caravan ES (3.8L V6 4 speed OD 139,000 miles) was
> developing a transmission problem (double thump when shifting into OD,
> even when just letting off the gas and then resuming gas), so I took it
> to my local dealer for a fluid change and control module diagnosis. It
> was quiet and drivable otherwise.
>
> The receipt from the dealer shows they found "worn out/burned trans
> fluid" and it came back with a two failure codes (P1798 and P1799, which
> the service writer said were wear and damage indicators in the
> transmission itself).
>
> In the final diagnosis of the service writer - it needs a rebuild or
> replacement transmission.
>
> Since the symptoms themselves seemed minor to me at the time, and not
> thinking I was in desperate need of emergency repairs, I wanted to take
> my time with the decision. So I drove it home and parked it for a week
> to go on an out-of-state trip.
>
> When I needed the Caravan the next weekend to tow my lightweight
> one-bike motorcycle trailer on a short road trip, I went out on the
> morning of the trip to the driveway to turn it around and hitch up the
> trailer. As soon as it was running and I started moving, it made a bunch
> of new noises - what sounded like quiet CV joint clicks at first, which
> quickly turned into a nasty gnashing, clanking and rpm-matching clicks
> as I rolled into the street in Drive. After about 10 yards it had
> settled into a rhythmic clicking that was sort of like a much softer
> version of shifting into Park while moving. As soon as I could get the
> thing turned around, I got it back into my driveway.
>
> So, now that it's not drivable at all - anyone have any recommendations
> when it comes to which repair path to take?
>
> Unless someone knows about some simple repair short of a complete
> transmission overhaul - I'd certainly like to save some money if
> possible ($4000 worst case scenario - new transmission and control
> unit), and come away with the best high-mileage solution. I have no
> desire or need to sell anytime soon, and feel fairly confident the rest
> of the Caravan will get me to twice the current mileage before I tire of
> it.
>
> My choices as I see them:
>
> A. Keep the original transmission and have the problems repaired at
> whatever the usual dealer rates are and have only the usual 90 day
> dealer warranty on the repairs.
>
> B. Replace the transmission with a remanufactured transmission (from
> Dodge) and get the factory 3 year warranty on the unit.
>
> C. Replace the transmission myself with a low mileage used/junkyard
> procured unit with no warranty.
>
> D. To change or not to change the transmission control unit.
>
> E. If I can save some money somewhere, do some mileage-based maintenance
> while the transmission is out (preemptive CV joint replacement,
> front-end suspension and steering bushings and joints, shocks). None of
> the parts mentioned are worn out completely, but feel worn enough that I
> wouldn't mind the freshening-up).
>
> F. Some 'hidden warranty' will cover the repairs and I won't have to pay
> a cent for the repairs <grin>.
>
> Anyone with some experience have a moment to help guide me?
>
> Mike G.
> -

In article <y7ZZd.2966$uw6.464@trnddc06>,
"Brian Floetke" > wrote:

> Also an other heads up.... These new OD trannys Chrysler are/is using run
> the
> tranny fluid a lot hotter then there old tried and true 904/727/999.
> I have installed 518 OD in my truck and they { Tranny Experts }recommended
> using an additional fluid cooler in conjunction with the one on the radiator
> to keep
> fluid cooler,

I have the factory trailer pulling option that was supposed to add more
cooling from stock. How would I tell if my tranny cooler is sub-standard?

> Also I put on their aftermarket deeper tranny fluid pan to
> give tranny
> more fluid.

Where would they extend it to make it hold more? It hangs awfully low as
it is ...

> Not had any problems with it. Also one more thing I am sure you
> are
> aware of and that is 1997 OD Trannys need to use ATF +3 type fluid. Regular
> Dexron 3 doesn't have the additive necessary to keep tranny from self
> destructing.
> If someone put Dexron 3 ( not the ATF 3 ) in a OD tranny that would've
> helped
> the OD tranny along the path to it's own early death.

It had been serviced twice on the normal service schedule by Dodge
dealers that I know of (at 60 and 120k) and there were no issues, so I
assume the right stuff had been used.

> P.S. All Auto Transmissions should have their fluid and filter changed
> every 30,000 miles.

If this is the 'extreme' duty interval that has been suggested
elsewhere, I have no problem with it (for future reference obviously).

Decided to take some of the advice offered here and on some of the many
pages devoted to this problem, and disconnected the battery to retrain
the computer.

Surprisingly enough, all the noises were gone.

My test ride around the block slowly but surely became a longer, until I
made it to a different DC dealer in town who had enough time to do a
trans fluid/filter/gasket chang ($103) on the fly, and then see if they
could get the same fault codes to show up on a test drive.

When they took the pan off, they called me into the service bay to see
what showed up in the pan. There was a 1/4 inch tall floret of grey
metal filings accumulated on the pan magnet, and one shiny piece at the
bottom of the pan about a 1/4 inch square and 1/16 thick that looked
like a chip off a much larger gear tooth. The fluid looked OK to me, but
I don't know what "burned" fluid looks like anyway.

The service writer offers me only one option at the time - the
$1800-2400 sliding scale of repairing the transmission. I'm still not
sure about that route, so I say to finish the fluid change as planned
and work up an estimate on installing a remanufactured unit.

They finish the job and the tech is in the office with the service
writer to back up the bad news - $2800 before taxes for the reman, but
it of course comes with the 3yr/36k mile warranty in stead of the 90 day
coverage on a rebuild.

I ask if they think there's any reason not to drive it away and see how
things worked out, and they say why not - as long as I have AAA towing
(100 miles) and they have a reman trans in stock, I would only be
without my car for the better part of one day after it could be dragged
in. If they sold the unit in stock before I could get back, it only
takes a day to get one in from Dallas.

I've been driving it now for two days with no problems or noises that I
can discern, after doing the gentle retraining method suggested online
(20-25 less than half throttle starts followed by 5-10 rolling 35 mph
kick-downs).

I replaced the one cracked motor mount (front) today to make sure that
any shudder I might feel would be in the trans and not the mounting.
After an evening of surface street and freeway driving there's still no
unusual noises, shakes or shudders.

OK then.

So, a quick check of the Dodge dealers nearby produced a range of prices
from $2600 to $2800 for the complete install of a Dodge reman
trans/torque converter and labor (without taxes) and turnaround from one
to three days (depending on when they could get the unit in from Dallas
and my drop-off schedule).

I'm satisfied that if I were to have the work done, getting a reman
trans and essentially a new car warranty on the work is worthwhile. I
can afford it too - I just don't like paying for work that doesn't NEED
doing.

That small amount of filings on the pan magnet, chipped tooth in the pan
and the 1/10th of a mile around my block of nasty noises before
re-training the transmission have me worried a bit, but that's offset by
feeling pretty darned good about how it's working right now (after the
fluid/filter change).

The question now - is there any reason I can't just drive what seems to
be a perfectly fine operating car until the trans fails again, or should
I make a bee-line for the dealer that has the reman unit in stock and
get it in there pronto?

Thanks for all the suggestions so far ...

Mike G.
-