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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
I bought my 98 SL2 less than a year ago from a local used car dealer
here in WV. It had 119,000 miles on it, and drove very smooth. I THOUGHT I did my homework. I did a CarFax report on it, came up perfectly clean. I took it to a good mechanic BEFORE I bought it who told me it was in excellent condition. Well, I drove the car from WV to FL, because thats where I go to college, and when I get there I see there is no oil left in the car. I had just gotten rid of an older car that burnt oil like crazy, so I didnt really think much of it other than to fill it up and watch what happens. Well it didnt leak, I never saw it burn in the exhaust, the only connection I could make is that it only appeared to lose oil when I drove long distances. Yet it still seemed somewhat random. This summer, I drove 3 hours to go camping to find the oil empty, filled it back up, and on the drive back no oil had burnt at all. In the past few weeks it seems to be losing oil faster than usual, and the coolant light in the dash is coming on about 75% of the time the car is driving. So, last night I got online and started looking up the problem and found out about the whole "cracked cylinder head" (?) situation, and needless to say, it shocks me. It fits my situation perfectly, and I did indeed find oil inside the coolant. I am a college student, and barely have enough money for gas, let alone an in depth engine job like this. The dealer I got it from will most likely be of no help, and since I don't really know what im talking about when it comes to cars, I dont want to get screwed over on this. I was wondering if anyone could help me with this... 1) I want to make sure that it is indeed a cracked cylinder...is this possible without pulling the engine out entirely? 2) What exactly should I tell the service people so that they dont try to charge me for some extraneous costs and/or fix the proper thing? 3)I've heard that Saturn's Customer Service can be finaggled into paying for some of the bill for this, since its was *almost* a recall. Is this true? and how can I pull it off? 4) Is there anywhere, perhaps other than a commercial repair manual, that I might be able to find more information about this problem with the engine? Ive seen the words "cylinder head" and "head gasket" used almost interchangably when talking of this problem, and Id like to know what the difference is, if any. Other than this, the car runs pretty well for a used car...the "lock" button on the drivers side went out, and the back passenger side power window seems to have died...and my reverse lights...but those all seem fairly trivial. Anyway, any help I could get on this would be greatly appreciated...im hoping to make this car last at least another 3 years! Hope its possible! |
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#2
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
You could "let it go" - sell it to someone who can fix it. (Ebay might
be an option) Then you might be able to buy a "lesser" or cheaper car that IS in good condition. You could bite the bullet and become an "instant Mechanic" - buy all the service manuals a good basic tool set and "go for it". Realize that most real mechanics have no super powers and are rarely members of "mensa" (though I suppose a few are). You could become best friends with a gearhead who can help you out with selecting and replacing an engine from a junkyard... Back when I was a kid, I was almost in the same situation you are in. Fortunately my grandfather lived only 60 miles from my college - not a mechanic but a machinist. He didnt really instruct me or do any work for me, but helped me get pointed in the right direction whenever I got "stuck". Replacing a cylinder head on an overhead cam engine was my first step. Later on I fully rebuilt at least half a dozen engines. (Including a Harley that I still ride.) Back to your engine. Cracked Cylinder is a MUCH worse situation than a cracked cylinder head. Its possible that the problem might be only a head gasket. (which you'll have to remove the head to replace) You can replace a cylinder head without removing the engine from the car. You can probably buy a used cylinder head from a local junkyard (or, again - ebay). The gasket sets you'd need are available from any parts store. HOWEVER. In my experience, oil consumption has been an indicator of bad rings or scored cylinder walls. It might be that your oil burning is gradual enough that you cannot "see it" and the catalytic converter MIGHT be hiding the evidence.... Consider this. The oil is going SOMEWHERE. Is quart after quart going from your cylinder head to your radiator? I dont think so. In the condition its in, it probably wont pass a safety inspection (not unless they dont worry about emissions and backup lights where you live). That's probably not going to work for you if you intend to drive it for three more years - so youre obviously going to have to do SOMETHING. It could be that by allowing your oil to get so low that you have done some real damage to your engine and it just might be such junk now that an entire replacement is in order. That could be done for a little bit over a thousand dollars with a salvaged engine. Is the car still running well? Any obvious oil leaks? Seriously cracked heads allow water from the cylinder head into the cylinders which makes a very steamy cloud from your exhaust and create so much pressure in your cooling system that it wont even hold water anymore. You really should have watched your oil consumption VERY carefully. Especially since your driving a Saturn. The part about driving it for over a thousand miles without checking the oil makes me CRINGE. You might want to do a cylinder compression test. If you take it to a shop, ask them how much for a full cylinder leakdown test to diagnose problems you've noticed they might not take you for a chump and it could result in enough information to determine the cause. Who knows, maybe you've just got a horrible valve guide situation. But be sure to get a quote first and totally limit what work they do. Dont just take it to someone and tell them you dont know what the problem is and "please fix it". Post any additional information. We will be watching. This could be an excellent learning experience for you, and not just the kind where you end up getting screwed! -WaVy wrote: > I bought my 98 SL2 less than a year ago from a local used car dealer > here in WV. It had 119,000 miles on it, and drove very smooth. I > THOUGHT I did my homework. I did a CarFax report on it, came up > perfectly clean. I took it to a good mechanic BEFORE I bought it who > told me it was in excellent condition. > > Well, I drove the car from WV to FL, because thats where I go to > college, and when I get there I see there is no oil left in the car. I > had just gotten rid of an older car that burnt oil like crazy, so I > didnt really think much of it other than to fill it up and watch what > happens. Well it didnt leak, I never saw it burn in the exhaust, the > only connection I could make is that it only appeared to lose oil when > I drove long distances. Yet it still seemed somewhat random. This > summer, I drove 3 hours to go camping to find the oil empty, filled it > back up, and on the drive back no oil had burnt at all. > > In the past few weeks it seems to be losing oil faster than usual, and > the coolant light in the dash is coming on about 75% of the time the > car is driving. So, last night I got online and started looking up the > problem and found out about the whole "cracked cylinder head" (?) > situation, and needless to say, it shocks me. It fits my situation > perfectly, and I did indeed find oil inside the coolant. > > I am a college student, and barely have enough money for gas, let alone > an in depth engine job like this. The dealer I got it from will most > likely be of no help, and since I don't really know what im talking > about when it comes to cars, I dont want to get screwed over on this. > > I was wondering if anyone could help me with this... > 1) I want to make sure that it is indeed a cracked cylinder...is this > possible without pulling the engine out entirely? > 2) What exactly should I tell the service people so that they dont try > to charge me for some extraneous costs and/or fix the proper thing? > 3)I've heard that Saturn's Customer Service can be finaggled into > paying for some of the bill for this, since its was *almost* a recall. > Is this true? and how can I pull it off? > 4) Is there anywhere, perhaps other than a commercial repair manual, > that I might be able to find more information about this problem with > the engine? Ive seen the words "cylinder head" and "head gasket" used > almost interchangably when talking of this problem, and Id like to know > what the difference is, if any. > > Other than this, the car runs pretty well for a used car...the "lock" > button on the drivers side went out, and the back passenger side power > window seems to have died...and my reverse lights...but those all seem > fairly trivial. Anyway, any help I could get on this would be greatly > appreciated...im hoping to make this car last at least another 3 years! > Hope its possible! |
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
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#4
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
On 8 Jul 2006 22:54:20 -0700, "wavy" > wrote:
This is good advise. Also do not rule out the possibliblity of a blown/leaking head gasket letting oil into coolant. If this is the case, try retorquing the head bolts and see if it helps as sometimes in can. One more thing, stop using 5w30 oil now as it will increase oil consumption in a worn engine. Use no less than 10w30 and if you are in a hot southern climate you might use 15w40 (not 10w40) as this can reduce oil consumption a lot caused by engine wear. 5w30 can go through a worn engine pretty quick. I do dount it is a crack in cylinder because the oil has to be under pressure to get into oil like a crack in oil passage that makes a path to coolant or a defective/leaking head gasket where oil passage is to lube head. >You could "let it go" - sell it to someone who can fix it. (Ebay might >be an option) Then you might be able to buy a "lesser" or cheaper car >that IS in good condition. >You could bite the bullet and become an "instant Mechanic" - buy all >the service manuals a good basic tool set and "go for it". Realize that >most real mechanics have no super powers and are rarely members of >"mensa" (though I suppose a few are). >You could become best friends with a gearhead who can help you out with >selecting and replacing an engine from a junkyard... > >Back when I was a kid, I was almost in the same situation you are in. >Fortunately my grandfather lived only 60 miles from my college - not a >mechanic but a machinist. He didnt really instruct me or do any work >for me, but helped me get pointed in the right direction whenever I got >"stuck". >Replacing a cylinder head on an overhead cam engine was my first step. >Later on I fully rebuilt at least half a dozen engines. (Including a >Harley that I still ride.) > >Back to your engine. > >Cracked Cylinder is a MUCH worse situation than a cracked cylinder >head. Its possible that the problem might be only a head gasket. >(which you'll have to remove the head to replace) > >You can replace a cylinder head without removing the engine from the >car. You can probably buy a used cylinder head from a local junkyard >(or, again - ebay). The gasket sets you'd need are available from any >parts store. > >HOWEVER. In my experience, oil consumption has been an indicator of >bad rings or scored cylinder walls. It might be that your oil burning >is gradual enough that you cannot "see it" and the catalytic converter >MIGHT be hiding the evidence.... > >Consider this. The oil is going SOMEWHERE. Is quart after quart going >from your cylinder head to your radiator? I dont think so. > >In the condition its in, it probably wont pass a safety inspection (not >unless they dont worry about emissions and backup lights where you >live). That's probably not going to work for you if you intend to >drive it for three more years - so youre obviously going to have to do >SOMETHING. > >It could be that by allowing your oil to get so low that you have done >some real damage to your engine and it just might be such junk now that >an entire replacement is in order. >That could be done for a little bit over a thousand dollars with a >salvaged engine. > >Is the car still running well? Any obvious oil leaks? Seriously >cracked heads allow water from the cylinder head into the cylinders >which makes a very steamy cloud from your exhaust and create so much >pressure in your cooling system that it wont even hold water anymore. > >You really should have watched your oil consumption VERY carefully. >Especially since your driving a Saturn. The part about driving it for >over a thousand miles without checking the oil makes me CRINGE. > >You might want to do a cylinder compression test. If you take it to a >shop, ask them how much for a full cylinder leakdown test to diagnose >problems you've noticed they might not take you for a chump and it >could result in enough information to determine the cause. Who knows, >maybe you've just got a horrible valve guide situation. >But be sure to get a quote first and totally limit what work they do. >Dont just take it to someone and tell them you dont know what the >problem is and "please fix it". > >Post any additional information. We will be watching. This could be >an excellent learning experience for you, and not just the kind where >you end up getting screwed! >-WaVy > wrote: >> I bought my 98 SL2 less than a year ago from a local used car dealer >> here in WV. It had 119,000 miles on it, and drove very smooth. I >> THOUGHT I did my homework. I did a CarFax report on it, came up >> perfectly clean. I took it to a good mechanic BEFORE I bought it who >> told me it was in excellent condition. >> >> Well, I drove the car from WV to FL, because thats where I go to >> college, and when I get there I see there is no oil left in the car. I >> had just gotten rid of an older car that burnt oil like crazy, so I >> didnt really think much of it other than to fill it up and watch what >> happens. Well it didnt leak, I never saw it burn in the exhaust, the >> only connection I could make is that it only appeared to lose oil when >> I drove long distances. Yet it still seemed somewhat random. This >> summer, I drove 3 hours to go camping to find the oil empty, filled it >> back up, and on the drive back no oil had burnt at all. >> >> In the past few weeks it seems to be losing oil faster than usual, and >> the coolant light in the dash is coming on about 75% of the time the >> car is driving. So, last night I got online and started looking up the >> problem and found out about the whole "cracked cylinder head" (?) >> situation, and needless to say, it shocks me. It fits my situation >> perfectly, and I did indeed find oil inside the coolant. >> >> I am a college student, and barely have enough money for gas, let alone >> an in depth engine job like this. The dealer I got it from will most >> likely be of no help, and since I don't really know what im talking >> about when it comes to cars, I dont want to get screwed over on this. >> >> I was wondering if anyone could help me with this... >> 1) I want to make sure that it is indeed a cracked cylinder...is this >> possible without pulling the engine out entirely? >> 2) What exactly should I tell the service people so that they dont try >> to charge me for some extraneous costs and/or fix the proper thing? >> 3)I've heard that Saturn's Customer Service can be finaggled into >> paying for some of the bill for this, since its was *almost* a recall. >> Is this true? and how can I pull it off? >> 4) Is there anywhere, perhaps other than a commercial repair manual, >> that I might be able to find more information about this problem with >> the engine? Ive seen the words "cylinder head" and "head gasket" used >> almost interchangably when talking of this problem, and Id like to know >> what the difference is, if any. >> >> Other than this, the car runs pretty well for a used car...the "lock" >> button on the drivers side went out, and the back passenger side power >> window seems to have died...and my reverse lights...but those all seem >> fairly trivial. Anyway, any help I could get on this would be greatly >> appreciated...im hoping to make this car last at least another 3 years! >> Hope its possible! ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com |
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
On 9 Jul 2006 09:07:14 -0700, "wavy" > wrote:
>I didnt intend to sound too dire - from reading your posts its a bit >difficult to determine just how bad the situation has become. The high >temperature situation does not sound encouraging. Does your car still >run well? Are you leaking or expelling coolant? LOOKING oily is one >thing, but a greasy froth in your coolant tank is certainly another. >I had brown coolant for a while - it looked oily but wasnt really, it >just needed to be replaced. Now nuclear glowing green, it looks much >better. And if theres a bad head situation, youre probably going to >have whitish, greasy yuck in your crankcase too. If he is having heating problem too it is possible that previsious owner had over heated it a few times too and one thing you do not want to do with a aluminum head engine is to over heat it or run low on coolant because it is about a sure way to warp a head and blow a head gasket and have probl;ems like he is seeing now. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com |
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
Hey, thanks again for all the help everyone!!
First thing, no it doesnt overheat... at least according to the temperature gauge, and from what I can tell when I open the hood (my old car, a 95 eclipse, got WAY hotter). And Im pretty sure the gauge does work, because when I do make the WV to FL trip it gets to almost half way on the gauge...any other time its only at the 1/4th mark. Second of all, the car drives fine... theres a little rough feeling in switching from 1st to 2nd (its manual), but I think thats just me being crappy with a stick shift. If I take it real slow it doesnt do that at all. And also, just to set the record straight, even though Im a college student, Im not an aggressive driver. I pretty much never go above 3000 rpms unless Im on the interstate in 5th gear. Third, I always check the oil on level ground, and always after the engine has cooled down a bit (Mostly after sitting a few hours, but sometimes only 5 mins). Last, I want to ask just to make sure...so the 1.9 L Twin Cam engine does not have the cylinder head defect then? If thats true, and this may just be a head gasket or oil ring problem, thats WONDERFUL to hear. Anyway, Im taking it down to the Saturn service center tomorrow to get them to check it (not to fix it). So, from what I understand here, I should tell them that I want them to pressure test the coolant system, and to get a "cylinder leak down test"? Is that correct? Also, is there anything I should ask them to do about the PCV valve? I CANNOT express how thankful I am for this thread!! |
#9
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
Oh, almost forgot...its not low on coolant either. Should the service
people flush the system? or should I worry about this after they do the other tests? |
#10
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1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?
On 9 Jul 2006 14:55:21 -0700, " >
wrote: >Second of all, the car drives fine... theres a little rough feeling in >switching from 1st to 2nd (its manual), but I think thats just me being >crappy with a stick shift. If I take it real slow it doesnt do that at >all. And also, just to set the record straight, even though Im a >college student, Im not an aggressive driver. I pretty much never go >above 3000 rpms unless Im on the interstate in 5th gear. You can blow the head gasket in the oil passage/cooling jacket area and have engine still run fine. The only thing worse than oil in water from a bad head gasket is coolant in crankcase as this is very bad and usually fatal if not caught soon. THere is not magic fixes here is you have oil in coolant. If retightening head bolts does not fix it, you must pull head before it get worse and takes engine out. If the leak variuos it can with engine temp and conditons. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com |
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