no lube on auto fasteners?

Don't use a 1/2-13 die on any stud. If it's 1/2" it's 1/2-20.

The dry stuff on wheel studs is probably something like
graphite or some form of dry zinc oxide; I think there was also a lead
oxide compound used for that sort of thing, but likely not anymore. We
use a graphite anti-seize on aircraft sparkplugs that goes on wet and
dries before installation. Made by Champion. We've also used
Never-Seize and Copper-Coat for those plugs. Never had one come loose.
Dan

On 9 Jan 2005 12:42:50 -0800, wrote:

>Don't use a 1/2-13 die on any stud. If it's 1/2" it's 1/2-20.

aracuda was correct about the thread pitch. It is dead-nuts-on at
1.50 -millimeters- ( Metric ).

So that means, it is the same in the lug =nut=. 1.50 millimeters.

The diameter of the damn thing is what the problem is at the moment.
It ain't 1/2 inch!

Measuring in English System, it mikes out at 0.4600 inches

Measuring in Metric System, it mikes out at 11.69 millimeters.

So you have to go with one or the other not both.

You can't be measuring bolt width in inches and thread pitch in
millimeters, and vice versa. It has to be one or the other.

Since the thread pitch is 1.50 millimeters dead-on, the bolt diameter
is therefore 11.69 millimeters, which is a bit smaller than I would
like it to be, but the Mfgr. probably doesn't give a rip one way or
another about it as long as the nut can go on the bolt. But I say it
is metric, and I say it ain't 1/2 inch. It's 12 millimeters instead.
Well, as close to 12 millimeters as you're going to get with cheap
**** parts.

Lg



>The dry stuff on wheel studs is probably something like
>graphite or some form of dry zinc oxide; I think there was also a lead
>oxide compound used for that sort of thing, but likely not anymore. We
>use a graphite anti-seize on aircraft sparkplugs that goes on wet and
>dries before installation. Made by Champion. We've also used
>Never-Seize and Copper-Coat for those plugs. Never had one come loose.
>Dan

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:22:50 GMT, aarcuda69062
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>>Lawrence Glickman > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>hmmmm. There is something wrong there. There might have been a burr
>>>on the threads of the lug or nut. Now I am going to do what Nate and
>>>some others suggested ( next time I remove wheels ). I have taken a
>>>1/2 13 tap and 1/2 13 die out of my tap and die kits, and I will run
>>>them up and through the threads to be sure there aren't any burrs that
>>>will give the torque wrench a false reading.
>>
>>If you're planning on doing this to your Sable, be advised, the
>>wheel stud threads are 12mmX1.5 pitch. The 1/2" die will only
>>make a mess of things.
>
>
> Doh?
>
> Let me take out my digital Mitutoyo vernier calipers and check some
> dimensions here.......................
>
> 11.70 millimeters
> ( 0.457 inches )
>
> and thread pitch....
>
> 1.50 millimeters ( OK )
>
> so now what.
>
> I'll go with your 12mm x 1.5 mm.
>
> Thanks for the heads up.
>
> You know, there are TWO different lugs for this car, depending if it
> was assembled in Atlanta or Toronto, or somesuch. The Ford part
> number for the lug -I- am using is
>
> XF1Z*1107*BA
> Bolt - Front
>
> Lg
>

Not to mention that 1/2-13 is a UNC thread and I ASSume that if it were
really 1/2" it would probably 1/2-20 (UNF)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:04:40 -0500, Nate Nagel >
wrote:
>
>Not to mention that 1/2-13 is a UNC thread and I ASSume that if it were
>really 1/2" it would probably 1/2-20 (UNF)
>
>nate

It's not 1/2 inch. It is Metric.
Threads don't line up with anything on my English thread gauge, but
the 1.5 mm tap drops right in there.

So this car's front lugs are Metric. And who knows where they came
from. Probably China, seeing the tolerances on the diameter of the
*thing,* and considering how one of them came apart like a candy bar
when I tried to torque it up to *factory specs.*

Lg

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:04:40 -0500, Nate Nagel >
wrote:
>
>Not to mention that 1/2-13 is a UNC thread and I ASSume that if it were
>really 1/2" it would probably 1/2-20 (UNF)
>
>nate

It's not 1/2 inch. It is Metric.
Threads don't line up with anything on my English thread gauge, but
the 1.5 mm tap drops right in there.

So this car's front lugs are Metric. And who knows where they came
from. Probably China, seeing the tolerances on the diameter of the
*thing,* and considering how one of them came apart like a candy bar
when I tried to torque it up to *factory specs.*

Lg
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

OK, this is one for the books.

I have the -original- bolt from the right front wheel, the lug that
snapped in half. I have both halves in front of me.

Taking -a- nut, I can run the 12mm X 1.5mm tap through it by _hand_
with no handle on it. All the way through the nut. No problem there.

Now comes along the lug.

The 12mm X 1.5 die won't even START on this lug. It is too small.

Remember I measured it as less than 12 millimeters? I am measuring it
_again_ and it is 11.85 millimeters on the body of the threads.
That's not SMALL ENOUGH when I take my Craftsman 12 X 1.5 mm die to
it!

I can't even get onto the _unthreaded_ part of the lug with that die !

WTF ?^%$#@*

The NUT has a head stamp that says "METRIC"

So we have resolved this is a metric lug. I mean, nobody puts a
Metric nut on an English bolt. So if the nut is metric, then the bolt
is metric.

Now I am going through my Metric die kit and what fits this lug is not
in my inventory.

The 1/2 20 gets -started- but then stops before the entire die is on
the lug.

At least that get -started-. the 12mm die won't even do that.

The 1/2 13 won't even run up as far as the 1/2 20 before it gets
stuck.

The end of the lug has a big "M" stamped in it, so that means "Metric"
right?

Back into the Metric die kit, I have _nothing_ that will mount this
lug in the way of a die. Nothing.

Lg

That 12 mm stud is within limits as far as diameter goes. My
Machinery's Handbook lists the 12 mm x 1.5 thread as having a maximum
major diameter of 11.968 mm and a minimum of 11.732 mm.
Craftsman tools, at least here in Canada, are no longer known for
their quality. I wouldn't be surprised that the die won't fit. On the
other hand, the stud might be beat up a bit so that it won't start. A
1/2-20 thread is close to 13 mm, so that die would naturally go on a
little ways before the thread mismatch stops it. Or, of course, the die
may be at the lower major diameter limit and the stud, at the 11.85 you
gave, is in the middle of the range. It would take some force to get it
on.
A 1/2-20 has a major diameter range of .4865" (12.357 mm) to
..4987" (12.624 mm).

Dan

On 9 Jan 2005 17:33:55 -0800, wrote:

>That 12 mm stud is within limits as far as diameter goes. My
>Machinery's Handbook lists the 12 mm x 1.5 thread as having a maximum
>major diameter of 11.968 mm and a minimum of 11.732 mm.
>Craftsman tools, at least here in Canada, are no longer known for
>their quality. I wouldn't be surprised that the die won't fit.

Dan, this is absolute bullcr@p !!!
On my lugs, they are not damage in any way where I am doing the
measuring and mounting. I'm dealing with the front end, the side
farthest away from the vehicle, the *point.*

I can't even get my 12mm x 1.5 onto the _unthreaded portion_ of THAT.

The tap works as advertised. The die, well, it ain't what it says it
is, that I'll put a dollar on. In fact, I don't know what use this
die kit is, now that it appears to be not to specifications. I don't
have the receipt for it, and even if I did, if I brought it back,
chances are 99% they would just give me another FUBAR die to replace
it with.

> On the
>other hand, the stud might be beat up a bit so that it won't start.

That's not the problem here.

> A
>1/2-20 thread is close to 13 mm, so that die would naturally go on a
>little ways before the thread mismatch stops it. Or, of course, the die
>may be at the lower major diameter limit and the stud, at the 11.85 you
>gave, is in the middle of the range. It would take some force to get it
>on.
>A 1/2-20 has a major diameter range of .4865" (12.357 mm) to
>.4987" (12.624 mm).

Oh I am _certain_ if I put a handle on the die, I could cut *New*
threads all the way to the wheel. But that isn't what I want to do,
because this die is F.U.B.A.R.

Crapsman fools.

Lg

> Dan

"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:04:40 -0500, Nate Nagel >
> wrote:
> >
> >Not to mention that 1/2-13 is a UNC thread and I ASSume that if it
were
> >really 1/2" it would probably 1/2-20 (UNF)
> >
> >nate
>
> It's not 1/2 inch. It is Metric.
> Threads don't line up with anything on my English thread gauge, but
> the 1.5 mm tap drops right in there.
>
> So this car's front lugs are Metric. And who knows where they came
> from. Probably China, seeing the tolerances on the diameter of the
> *thing,* and considering how one of them came apart like a candy bar
> when I tried to torque it up to *factory specs.*
>
> Lg>

Why does the USof A not enter the real world
and go Metric. Even Britain where those measurements
originally came from went Metric decades ago.

How come the USofA uses metric money and not
Pounds, Shillings, Sixpence, Thrippney bit, Half-a Crowm
Penny, Half a Penny, Fathing =1/4 Penny.

Go Metric and join the real world.

The only measurements you will have on your Japanese,
European, Korean vehicles will be Metric.

Denny

Denny B wrote:

>
> Why does the USof A not enter the real world
> and go Metric. Even Britain where those measurements
> originally came from went Metric decades ago.
>

Because we can't find anyone to foot the bill of converting
everything over to metric. People seem to think this would
be as easy as handing out new rulers to a grade school class,
but full changeover costs would run into the billions, if
not trillions, of dollars. This stuff ain't free.

JazzMan
--
************************************************** ********
Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net.
Curse those darned bulk e-mailers!
************************************************** ********
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live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry
************************************************** ********

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:48:52 -0700, "Denny B" >
wrote:

>
>"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:04:40 -0500, Nate Nagel >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >Not to mention that 1/2-13 is a UNC thread and I ASSume that if it
>were
>> >really 1/2" it would probably 1/2-20 (UNF)
>> >
>> >nate
>>
>> It's not 1/2 inch. It is Metric.
>> Threads don't line up with anything on my English thread gauge, but
>> the 1.5 mm tap drops right in there.
>>
>> So this car's front lugs are Metric. And who knows where they came
>> from. Probably China, seeing the tolerances on the diameter of the
>> *thing,* and considering how one of them came apart like a candy bar
>> when I tried to torque it up to *factory specs.*
>>
>> Lg>
>
>Why does the USof A not enter the real world
>and go Metric. Even Britain where those measurements
>originally came from went Metric decades ago.
>
>How come the USofA uses metric money and not
>Pounds, Shillings, Sixpence, Thrippney bit, Half-a Crowm
>Penny, Half a Penny, Fathing =1/4 Penny.
>
>Go Metric and join the real world.
>
>The only measurements you will have on your Japanese,
>European, Korean vehicles will be Metric.
>
>Denny
>
It's a hybrid vehicle. some of it is made here, some elsewhere.
Using parts from all over the planet, which subassemblies are put
together all over the planet.

I have to bow out of here for the moment. I had to overmedicate
myself to stop an acute bronchitis attack, and am fading quickly.

I 've learned at least one thing tonight. Don't believe what you read
on the packaging materials.

If I had the money I would buy Snap On tools, or Matco, but since I
don't, I'm stuck with what I have.

Best Wishes until we meet again.

Lg