New 3/4 Series

"Ramone Cila" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Korth" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ramone Cila" > wrote in message
>
>> > BMW has confirmed this to a number of magazines, the last being
> AutoWeek,
>> > which did a cover story on the E90 in last week's edition. There will
>> > be
>> > no
>> > 4 series....derived from the 3 series.
>> >
>> >
>> So does this mean that in 3-4 years when the E85 Z4 is replaced, the new
>> small roadster will, again, be called a Z3?
>> Just wondering :-)
>
> Are you claiming your Z4 is a "4 series" or are you claiming it shares a
> platform with the "3 series", or are you claiming both?
>
>
Not claiming anything - just trying to understand the logic (if any) of the
Z1, Z4 & Z8 names.

Tom

"Ramone Cila" > wrote in message
...
>
> "dizzy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:34:31 -0700, "Ramone Cila" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >BMW has confirmed this to a number of magazines, the last being
AutoWeek,
> > >which did a cover story on the E90 in last week's edition. There will
be
> no
> > >4 series....derived from the 3 series.
> >
> > Along with more rumors of a turbocharged car. I'll believe that when
> > I see it...
>
> We've been hearing these for a long time, haven't we. I find it funny
> though...BMW has maintained high ground because Audi and Merc ***have***
to
> blow their current engine architecture to develop similar power and
response
> levels, and now, just when each are developing new engines that eschew
> forced air, the magazines are reporting BMW is developing new gas engines
> that are turbo'ed or supercharged.
>
> Makes no sense.
>
> I agree with you, I'll be very surprised the day I see a mainline BMW
model
> in the USA with a turbo'ed engine.

See 745i mid 80's, 2002tii early 70's. Plus various turbocharged diesels of
course but that's not what you mean I know.

Turbocharged BMW 12 cylinder motors can be found in several places in
production today, in the MacLearen F1 for example. This is current,
roadgoing, streetlegal production.

So, I submit that it's not as outlandish as you might think. I like and
respect BMW's policy of normally aspirated performance motors. But it's not
a religion with them. Forced induction motors may well appear on our shores
in the near future.

-Russ.

"Somebody" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Ramone Cila" > wrote in message

> > I agree with you, I'll be very surprised the day I see a mainline BMW
> model
> > in the USA with a turbo'ed engine.
>
> See 745i mid 80's, 2002tii early 70's. Plus various turbocharged diesels
of
> course but that's not what you mean I know.

Everyone here is aware of BMW's past turbo'ed engines. We are also aware of
the 20 years since they have eschewed them as well.

> Turbocharged BMW 12 cylinder motors can be found in several places in
> production today, in the MacLearen F1 for example. This is current,
> roadgoing, streetlegal production.

As we are aware of the F1, but I said "mainline BMW model". You will notice
that while BMW produces forced air engines they do not put their Roundel on
any of the vehicles that bear the Roundel.

> So, I submit that it's not as outlandish as you might think.

I think it is entirely outlandish. They could have achieved the same power
levels, probably for much less money, in the new M5 had they thought turbos
or superchargers offered the same responsiveness. That has always been their
mantra regarding blown engines....that they can't meet the responsiveness of
normally aspirated engines.

Given their comments over the past 5 or 6 years, while Audi and Merc went
the way of turbos and SC's, I think it highly unlikely we see a blown petrol
engine in a mainline BMW model.

Ramone Cila wrote:

> Given their comments over the past 5 or 6 years, while Audi and Merc went
> the way of turbos and SC's, I think it highly unlikely we see a blown
> petrol engine in a mainline BMW model.

Hello Ramone!

Normally I would agree with you. But current Car Magazines here in Germany
still predict a turbo 330ti whith approximately 330hp. This variant is
probably supposed to fill the gap between the new 330i starting next year
with 258hp and the next M3 with V8 and ~400hp. The turbo version is only a
rumor of course, but IMHO it will happen.
Marketingwise this would make perfect sense. And it would be quite difficult
to fill this gap with a normally aspirated engine without going from
inline6 to V8.

Just my 0.02 cent.

Karl from Germany

"Karl Koller" > wrote in message
...
> Ramone Cila wrote:
>
> > Given their comments over the past 5 or 6 years, while Audi and Merc
went
> > the way of turbos and SC's, I think it highly unlikely we see a blown
> > petrol engine in a mainline BMW model.
>
> Hello Ramone!
>
> Normally I would agree with you. But current Car Magazines here in Germany
> still predict a turbo 330ti whith approximately 330hp.

They have been predicting turbo BMW's for the last ten years both here and
in Europe. In fact if you read early reports on the E60 almost all magazines
were predicting a 380 HP twin turbo. Of course as we know that didn't
happen....nor is there any more talk about it happening. I don't see turbo's
happening in the 3, 5, 6,or 7 series cars. And I don't see why. I do see the
possibility of turbos or superchargers in the 1 series for the Asian market.

But I find little value in magazine predictions when it comes to certain car
companies and BMW is one of them.

"Ramone Cila" > haute in die Tasten:

> I don't see turbo's
> happening in the 3, 5, 6,or 7 series cars.

Of course they make turbo engines in all of these series (except the 6
series up to now): They make turbodiesel engines, and now they even have a
three litre twin turbo diesel with some 270 HP IIRC. When they first made
the turbocharged 745i back in the early 80's it was some sort of marketing
hype, because at that time they provided the Brabham Formula 1 racing team
with a turbocharged racing engine, which won the world championship.

Today they still make Formula one engines, so it does not make me wonder,
why the new M5 has no turbo, but V10 cylinders and a seven gears SMG
gearbox.

Frank

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Ramone Cila wrote:

> But I find little value in magazine predictions when it comes to certain
> car companies and BMW is one of them.

The magazine I'm reffering to seems to have quite good contacts. They
predicted many details right of the current 5 and 6 series including
technical details 2 years before they appeared. But that doesn't mean, this
rumor must be true.
I personally am quite impressed by the responsiveness of my 325Ci from just
above 1000 up to 6500 rpm without any peaks or holes. Therefore I couldn't
care less for a turbo with a less perfect power output over the
rpm-range...

In the end only time will tell ;-)

Karl

"Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
...
> "Ramone Cila" > haute in die Tasten:
>
> > I don't see turbo's
> > happening in the 3, 5, 6,or 7 series cars.
>
> Of course they make turbo engines in all of these series (except the 6
> series up to now):

Not turbo gas/petrol engines....which is what we are talking about. We all
know they make turbo diesels.

"Karl Koller" > wrote in message
...
> Ramone Cila wrote:
>
> > But I find little value in magazine predictions when it comes to certain
> > car companies and BMW is one of them.
>
> The magazine I'm reffering to seems to have quite good contacts. They
> predicted many details right of the current 5 and 6 series including
> technical details 2 years before they appeared. But that doesn't mean,
this
> rumor must be true.
> I personally am quite impressed by the responsiveness of my 325Ci from
just
> above 1000 up to 6500 rpm without any peaks or holes. Therefore I couldn't
> care less for a turbo with a less perfect power output over the
> rpm-range...
>
> In the end only time will tell ;-)
>
> Karl

So, taking your great engine, and adding a big bunch of high-end power,
wouldn't interest you?

-Russ.

"Somebody" > haute in die Tasten:

> So, taking your great engine, and adding a big bunch of high-end power,
> wouldn't interest you?
>

A Turbo engine behaves different. In order to prevent the turbo killing the
engine, the compression usually is lower, which affects the responsiveness
in the low end. As soon as the turbo has gained speed and generated
pressure, suddenly the power is there.

Of course there are better and worse turbo engines, but it is hard to meet
the original BMW characteristics.

Frank

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