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  #11  
Old November 20th 04, 09:06 PM
Spike
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Everything runs in cycles of "average" time period between like
events. They can only predict based on the past, but they don't know
what really causes it.

Supposedly, we are overdue for an ice age now. One report I read said
that the melting of the ice caps it what triggers an ice age. So, this
global warming thing could be just a precursor to that event.

So, where you are, I guess you better start thinking about relocating
or opening a snowcone stand.

Heck, I'm gonna keep on driving as long as I can 'cause I heard a
scientist say that a major asteroid hits the earth every so many
thousand years.

What worries me is that tectonic plate movement is probably what
powers the system which makes earth habitable. Could all that oil be
the lube which makes it possible for the plates to move freely? What
happens when you lose all the oil in your engine? Oops!



On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:15:44 GMT, "Richard" > wrote:

>
>"Spike" > wrote in message
.. .
>> As I recall,according to a study, all it takes is the eruption of
>> three major volcanos, which is far from uncommon, to produce more
>> ozone depleting gases and pollutants, than the human race presently
>> produces.

>
>I believe that is more than man has EVER produced since his beginnings on
>this planet.
>
>>
>> But the experts can't even agree. It wasn't that long ago that cars
>> were blamed for global "cooling" which was going to bring about an ice
>> age. Now it's global warming melting the polar caps. Is it possible
>> that both are just natural events in climate.

>
>I believe that were I live was under about a mile of ice only 10/15,000
>years ago. Hell, in the mere blink of an eye (last 2,000,000 years) there
>have be more than 20 glacial advances and retreats in North America.
>http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/ice_ages/ .


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Ads
  #12  
Old November 20th 04, 09:41 PM
Jim S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"RichA" > wrote in message
...
>
> They'll have to move. Maybe to Greenland when it's green again.
> The name was coined sometime before the year 1000, when they had
> a long stretch of winterless years in Europe. Year round growing
> seasons in England. Must have been all those cars and methane?


I'll answer just one of the many failures of logic and fact you state.
The warming in Greenland you mention is not a function of climate. Think of
it like the Dust Bowl of the 1930's. Further, Greenland was so named for
commercial reasons.


  #13  
Old November 20th 04, 09:42 PM
Jim S.
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Posts: n/a
Default

I'll point you to -
http://www.letus.nwu.edu/projects/gw...&CO2-graph.pdf

Spike, I don't know where you are getting your information, but I think you
should start looking elsewhere.


"Spike" > wrote in message
...
> Everything runs in cycles of "average" time period between like
> events. They can only predict based on the past, but they don't know
> what really causes it.
>
> Supposedly, we are overdue for an ice age now. One report I read said
> that the melting of the ice caps it what triggers an ice age. So, this
> global warming thing could be just a precursor to that event.
>
> So, where you are, I guess you better start thinking about relocating
> or opening a snowcone stand.
>
> Heck, I'm gonna keep on driving as long as I can 'cause I heard a
> scientist say that a major asteroid hits the earth every so many
> thousand years.
>
> What worries me is that tectonic plate movement is probably what
> powers the system which makes earth habitable. Could all that oil be
> the lube which makes it possible for the plates to move freely? What
> happens when you lose all the oil in your engine? Oops!
>
>
>
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:15:44 GMT, "Richard" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Spike" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> As I recall,according to a study, all it takes is the eruption of
> >> three major volcanos, which is far from uncommon, to produce more
> >> ozone depleting gases and pollutants, than the human race presently
> >> produces.

> >
> >I believe that is more than man has EVER produced since his beginnings on
> >this planet.
> >
> >>
> >> But the experts can't even agree. It wasn't that long ago that cars
> >> were blamed for global "cooling" which was going to bring about an ice
> >> age. Now it's global warming melting the polar caps. Is it possible
> >> that both are just natural events in climate.

> >
> >I believe that were I live was under about a mile of ice only 10/15,000
> >years ago. Hell, in the mere blink of an eye (last 2,000,000 years)

there
> >have be more than 20 glacial advances and retreats in North America.
> >http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/ice_ages/ .

>
> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16



  #14  
Old November 20th 04, 11:40 PM
Spike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And that is just the point. My information comes from a very wide
variety of sources, written, broadcast, online, official and
unofficial, liberal and conservative. There is little concensus among
all the so called experts. I don't stop at one source and accept that
as gospel. And just because it says "edu" in the address line doesn't
make it the last word in sources. If I did, I would have accepted that
the spotted owl was on the brink of extinction, which, after thousands
were put out of work, it was found they are not.

On 20 Nov 2004 15:42:40 EST, "Jim S." > wrote:

>I'll point you to -
>http://www.letus.nwu.edu/projects/gw...&CO2-graph.pdf
>
>Spike, I don't know where you are getting your information, but I think you
>should start looking elsewhere.
>
>
>"Spike" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Everything runs in cycles of "average" time period between like
>> events. They can only predict based on the past, but they don't know
>> what really causes it.
>>
>> Supposedly, we are overdue for an ice age now. One report I read said
>> that the melting of the ice caps it what triggers an ice age. So, this
>> global warming thing could be just a precursor to that event.
>>
>> So, where you are, I guess you better start thinking about relocating
>> or opening a snowcone stand.
>>
>> Heck, I'm gonna keep on driving as long as I can 'cause I heard a
>> scientist say that a major asteroid hits the earth every so many
>> thousand years.
>>
>> What worries me is that tectonic plate movement is probably what
>> powers the system which makes earth habitable. Could all that oil be
>> the lube which makes it possible for the plates to move freely? What
>> happens when you lose all the oil in your engine? Oops!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:15:44 GMT, "Richard" > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Spike" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> >> As I recall,according to a study, all it takes is the eruption of
>> >> three major volcanos, which is far from uncommon, to produce more
>> >> ozone depleting gases and pollutants, than the human race presently
>> >> produces.
>> >
>> >I believe that is more than man has EVER produced since his beginnings on
>> >this planet.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> But the experts can't even agree. It wasn't that long ago that cars
>> >> were blamed for global "cooling" which was going to bring about an ice
>> >> age. Now it's global warming melting the polar caps. Is it possible
>> >> that both are just natural events in climate.
>> >
>> >I believe that were I live was under about a mile of ice only 10/15,000
>> >years ago. Hell, in the mere blink of an eye (last 2,000,000 years)

>there
>> >have be more than 20 glacial advances and retreats in North America.
>> >http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/ice_ages/ .

>>
>> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
>> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
>> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #15  
Old November 21st 04, 12:58 AM
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:20:10 -0800, Spike > wrote:

>As I recall,according to a study, all it takes is the eruption of
>three major volcanos, which is far from uncommon, to produce more
>ozone depleting gases and pollutants, than the human race presently
>produces.


Most emission of volcanic and methane gasses comes from under
the ocean. In fact, they are talking about mining supercooled
methane sources as a fuel under the oceans because they believe
the quantities are enormous.


  #16  
Old November 21st 04, 05:06 AM
Spike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

True, and there does appear to be large quantities... but the problem
is that under pressure it remains frozen and reasonable stable.
Getting it sea level safely seems to be the stumbling block.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:58:17 -0500, RichA > wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:20:10 -0800, Spike > wrote:
>
>>As I recall,according to a study, all it takes is the eruption of
>>three major volcanos, which is far from uncommon, to produce more
>>ozone depleting gases and pollutants, than the human race presently
>>produces.

>
>Most emission of volcanic and methane gasses comes from under
>the ocean. In fact, they are talking about mining supercooled
>methane sources as a fuel under the oceans because they believe
>the quantities are enormous.
>
>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #17  
Old November 21st 04, 06:18 PM
Jim S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd be more discriminating if I were you. There is no debate about climate
change -- CO2 and other green house gases have increased greatly since the
industrial revolution. The increase is without doubt anthropogenic. Climate
change will occur. It's unfortunate that the media often frames "The Global
Warming Debate" as a debate about if global warming is real. The only debate
is about how much climate change will occur. The fossil industry guys have
their good-for-you proposal about sunnier weather and less harsh winter.
Some rather green folks see it as dooms-day. The going line is, 10% chance
of each of the extremes. Climate change is real. There is no debate about
the fact that humans are altering the atmosphere and the climate. It's only
a debate about the degree (nice pun eh?) to which it will change.



"Spike" > wrote in message
...
> And that is just the point. My information comes from a very wide
> variety of sources, written, broadcast, online, official and
> unofficial, liberal and conservative. There is little concensus among
> all the so called experts. I don't stop at one source and accept that
> as gospel. And just because it says "edu" in the address line doesn't
> make it the last word in sources. If I did, I would have accepted that
> the spotted owl was on the brink of extinction, which, after thousands
> were put out of work, it was found they are not.
>
> On 20 Nov 2004 15:42:40 EST, "Jim S." > wrote:
>
>>I'll point you to -
>>http://www.letus.nwu.edu/projects/gw...&CO2-graph.pdf
>>
>>Spike, I don't know where you are getting your information, but I think
>>you
>>should start looking elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>"Spike" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> Everything runs in cycles of "average" time period between like
>>> events. They can only predict based on the past, but they don't know
>>> what really causes it.
>>>
>>> Supposedly, we are overdue for an ice age now. One report I read said
>>> that the melting of the ice caps it what triggers an ice age. So, this
>>> global warming thing could be just a precursor to that event.
>>>
>>> So, where you are, I guess you better start thinking about relocating
>>> or opening a snowcone stand.
>>>
>>> Heck, I'm gonna keep on driving as long as I can 'cause I heard a
>>> scientist say that a major asteroid hits the earth every so many
>>> thousand years.
>>>
>>> What worries me is that tectonic plate movement is probably what
>>> powers the system which makes earth habitable. Could all that oil be
>>> the lube which makes it possible for the plates to move freely? What
>>> happens when you lose all the oil in your engine? Oops!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:15:44 GMT, "Richard" > wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >"Spike" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>> >> As I recall,according to a study, all it takes is the eruption of
>>> >> three major volcanos, which is far from uncommon, to produce more
>>> >> ozone depleting gases and pollutants, than the human race presently
>>> >> produces.
>>> >
>>> >I believe that is more than man has EVER produced since his beginnings
>>> >on
>>> >this planet.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> But the experts can't even agree. It wasn't that long ago that cars
>>> >> were blamed for global "cooling" which was going to bring about an
>>> >> ice
>>> >> age. Now it's global warming melting the polar caps. Is it possible
>>> >> that both are just natural events in climate.
>>> >
>>> >I believe that were I live was under about a mile of ice only 10/15,000
>>> >years ago. Hell, in the mere blink of an eye (last 2,000,000 years)

>>there
>>> >have be more than 20 glacial advances and retreats in North America.
>>> >http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/ice_ages/ .
>>>
>>> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
>>> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
>>> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
>>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

>>

>
> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16



  #18  
Old November 21st 04, 09:40 PM
Spike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Which is precisely my point... As you just pointed out... there is no
con census. I never said humans have no impact. Only that the impact
humans have is far from determined. And as you also pointed out, those
various organizations each have their own agendas which motivate their
findings. Just as a large number of "studies" have been found to be
tainted by a policy requiring so called experts to "publish or
perish". Human are supposed to have such an impact, yet those self
same "experts" make a prediction, such as the size of the hole in the
ozone layer, and then the hole either gets way larger than projected,
or unexpectedly shrinks.

I take it you have decided what the sole source for factual
information is and you expect one and all to accept only your
source(s) because they agree with what you believe. In which case you
should probably do your part, and return to the Amish lifestyle. Use
nothing modern, including the internet and computers. Much like if we
disarm, they will disarm.

On 21 Nov 2004 12:18:39 EST, "Jim S." > wrote:

>I'd be more discriminating if I were you. There is no debate about climate
>change -- CO2 and other green house gases have increased greatly since the
>industrial revolution. The increase is without doubt anthropogenic. Climate
>change will occur. It's unfortunate that the media often frames "The Global
>Warming Debate" as a debate about if global warming is real. The only debate
>is about how much climate change will occur. The fossil industry guys have
>their good-for-you proposal about sunnier weather and less harsh winter.
>Some rather green folks see it as dooms-day. The going line is, 10% chance
>of each of the extremes. Climate change is real. There is no debate about
>the fact that humans are altering the atmosphere and the climate. It's only
>a debate about the degree (nice pun eh?) to which it will change.
>
>
>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #19  
Old November 22nd 04, 12:38 AM
rw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Spike wrote:
> Which is precisely my point... As you just pointed out... there is no
> con census. I never said humans have no impact. Only that the impact
> humans have is far from determined.


We are basically a bunch of monkeys poking and prodding a complex
machine that we don't understand, taking out a piece here and there,
wedging a stick into the works, and hoping for the best.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
  #20  
Old November 22nd 04, 12:51 AM
Jim S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you can't accept science, you are beyond logic. If you accept that we
have any impact at all, which everyone does, it's only a matter of time. We
are quickly moving to levels of CO2 in the atmosphere that haven't been
observed for 100 million years. Further, everyone accepts that the reason
behind the huge jump in levels of C02 is anthropogenic. There is excellent
science that proves this is real. There is also excellent science, accepted
by everyone, about what things were like in the past. If you can't accept
the basic laws of physics, and see that the same things will happen in the
future, you are beyond logic. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been
spent studying this. This is not one little study by a graduate student.
This is thousands of studies, peer reviewed, repeated. It is as science as
science gets. Even companies who have a vested interest in denying climate
change, now accept it as reality. If you can't accept this level of science
as fact, you could never convict someone of a crime.

Here is a bit of an interview with Stephen Schneider, Biological Sciences
dude at Stanford --

"Well, most scientists would argue that these very mild and very
catastrophic outcomes are plausible, maybe even a 10 percent chance of each
of them. But the bulk of the likelihood is somewhere between the end of the
world and the "good for you" scenarios that you see all the time in the
newspapers and in the Congressional debates.
The bulk of scientists are pretty straight about saying this is a
probability distribution. And right now our best guess is that we're
expecting warming on the order of a few degrees in the next century. It's
our best guess. We do not rule out the catastrophic 5 degrees or the mild
half or one degree. And the special interests, ..... from deep ecology
groups grabbing the 5 degrees as if it's the truth, or the coal industry
grabbing the half degree and saying, 'Oh, we're going to end up with
negligible change and CO2's a fertilizer,' and then spinning that as if
that's the whole story--that's the difference between what goes on in the
scientific community and what goes on in the public debate."





Spike" > wrote in message
... > Which is precisely my
point... As you just pointed out... there is no
> con census. I never said humans have no impact. Only that the impact
> humans have is far from determined. And as you also pointed out, those
> various organizations each have their own agendas which motivate their
> findings. Just as a large number of "studies" have been found to be
> tainted by a policy requiring so called experts to "publish or
> perish". Human are supposed to have such an impact, yet those self
> same "experts" make a prediction, such as the size of the hole in the
> ozone layer, and then the hole either gets way larger than projected,
> or unexpectedly shrinks.
>
> I take it you have decided what the sole source for factual
> information is and you expect one and all to accept only your
> source(s) because they agree with what you believe. In which case you
> should probably do your part, and return to the Amish lifestyle. Use
> nothing modern, including the internet and computers. Much like if we
> disarm, they will disarm.






> On 21 Nov 2004 12:18:39 EST, "Jim S." > wrote:
>
>>I'd be more discriminating if I were you. There is no debate about climate
>>change -- CO2 and other green house gases have increased greatly since the
>>industrial revolution. The increase is without doubt anthropogenic.
>>Climate
>>change will occur. It's unfortunate that the media often frames "The
>>Global
>>Warming Debate" as a debate about if global warming is real. The only
>>debate
>>is about how much climate change will occur. The fossil industry guys have
>>their good-for-you proposal about sunnier weather and less harsh winter.
>>Some rather green folks see it as dooms-day. The going line is, 10% chance
>>of each of the extremes. Climate change is real. There is no debate about
>>the fact that humans are altering the atmosphere and the climate. It's
>>only
>>a debate about the degree (nice pun eh?) to which it will change.
>>
>>
>>

>
> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16



 




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