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Partial antifreeze changes, pros & cons + can`t do the math :(



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th 05, 08:22 PM
Mikail
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Default Partial antifreeze changes, pros & cons + can`t do the math :(

Any one in the USA done this? interested in a US perspective.
(hello from the UK)

Coolant system holds 6 litres. Header tank holds one and a half
Litres..(ethelene glycol at 50% as per manufactures spec)
I can suck out the header tank in seconds with a vaccuum fluid remover
and replace with fresh.
The engine bay is a nightmare for access, none from above to coolant
hoses (no drain plugs)
Even from underneath on ramps, lying on my back removing bottom hose
from rad , arm reaching up at full stretch into the engine bay, results
in an antifreeze shower down the arm, and only removes two and a half
litres.
To get more out from the block and heater hoses is even worse.
I wondered if anyone else just sucked out the header tank every 3
months or so instead?
Never had the pleasure to see under the hood of an American vehicle,
but hope you have more room in there , in general for access.
I was hopeless since shool in even simple math.... Ok.. even
arithmatic
But if I sucked out the header tank 3 times a year, can anyone tell me
how much percentage of old coolant I would be running with in the
system.
Any thoughts on this?
I`m just retired and trying to save on servicing (labour)costs, but
mainly trying to avoid a half day crawling under the car, soaking in
coolant.

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  #2  
Old May 19th 05, 10:22 PM
Shep
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Default

How about removing the thermostat, removing the hose from the upper rad
tank, the lower rad tank and using a water hose flushing thru the upper hose
till the it runs clean, after draining as much coolant out of the block and
rad as possible.
"Mikail" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Any one in the USA done this? interested in a US perspective.
> (hello from the UK)
>
> Coolant system holds 6 litres. Header tank holds one and a half
> Litres..(ethelene glycol at 50% as per manufactures spec)
> I can suck out the header tank in seconds with a vaccuum fluid remover
> and replace with fresh.
> The engine bay is a nightmare for access, none from above to coolant
> hoses (no drain plugs)
> Even from underneath on ramps, lying on my back removing bottom hose
> from rad , arm reaching up at full stretch into the engine bay, results
> in an antifreeze shower down the arm, and only removes two and a half
> litres.
> To get more out from the block and heater hoses is even worse.
> I wondered if anyone else just sucked out the header tank every 3
> months or so instead?
> Never had the pleasure to see under the hood of an American vehicle,
> but hope you have more room in there , in general for access.
> I was hopeless since shool in even simple math.... Ok.. even
> arithmatic
> But if I sucked out the header tank 3 times a year, can anyone tell me
> how much percentage of old coolant I would be running with in the
> system.
> Any thoughts on this?
> I`m just retired and trying to save on servicing (labour)costs, but
> mainly trying to avoid a half day crawling under the car, soaking in
> coolant.
>
>




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  #3  
Old May 20th 05, 07:52 AM
Mikail
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Default

I agree Shep, Thats the logical way to do it.
The thermostat housing though has very poor access and several pipes
and sensors coming out of the housing itself, and just below. You can`t
even see the bottom housing bolt that fastens it to the block and it
looks as though all those pipes on the housing would have to come off
to be able to pull the housing away sufficiently to get the thermostat
out. Needless to say, those pipes are held on by hose clips that have
to be destroyed to get them off. I also have a certain reluctance to
deal with the bolts on the thermostat housing that go into the alloy
head. If one had a damaged thread it would be an engine out job to get
a thread insert fitted...
Overcautious perhaps... But I have had 2 experiences over the years
where bolts into alloy have been been cross threaded at the factory
and power tooled in...
Your suggestion is similar to good advice I received on UK forums, and
I have just done the job, taking the best part of a day on two cars.
Now its fresh antifreeze though. I was wondering whether anyone on the
US forums did partial, regular changes, with ethylene glycol (the easy
wayand if so what the results are.
Thanks anyway for the response.

  #4  
Old May 20th 05, 01:16 PM
Al Bundy
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I like your thinking here as a labor saving idea. Remember, if you
continue this program you will always have at least a tiny bit of the
original fluid in there. I don't consider that critical though.
Assuming the 1.5 liter tank is included in the 6 liter capacity then
you are draining 25% and keeping 75%.
First change = 75% left of original.
Second change = .75X.75 or 56.25% of original.
Third change = .75X .5625 or 42.19% of original.
So at the end of the year you have less than half the original fluid
left.
In the case you describe I think it makes sense. Eventually you have
almost none of the original.

  #5  
Old May 20th 05, 02:55 PM
Mike Romain
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Default

And then to make sure it has the correct mix, you can just buy one of
those $5.00 antifreeze testers. They suck up some and give you it's
strength with a float reading.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> I like your thinking here as a labor saving idea. Remember, if you
> continue this program you will always have at least a tiny bit of the
> original fluid in there. I don't consider that critical though.
> Assuming the 1.5 liter tank is included in the 6 liter capacity then
> you are draining 25% and keeping 75%.
> First change = 75% left of original.
> Second change = .75X.75 or 56.25% of original.
> Third change = .75X .5625 or 42.19% of original.
> So at the end of the year you have less than half the original fluid
> left.
> In the case you describe I think it makes sense. Eventually you have
> almost none of the original.

  #6  
Old May 20th 05, 03:16 PM
john
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Default

"Mikail" <do
> Any one in the USA done this? interested in a US perspective.
> (hello from the UK)
>
> Coolant system holds 6 litres. Header tank holds one and a half
> Litres..(ethelene glycol at 50% as per manufactures spec)
> I can suck out the header tank in seconds with a vaccuum fluid remover
> and replace with fresh.
> The engine bay is a nightmare for access, none from above to coolant
> hoses (no drain plugs)


can't you get the vacuum tube to go into the radiator (remove cap)
you should be able to remove 75% of the fluid that way..


  #7  
Old May 20th 05, 06:02 PM
Mikail
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Default

Thanks, Al, Mike & John,
John, the rad does not have its own header tank or cap. Its like a long
honeycomb tucked well behind the front grill, about 2 feet wide and
about 9 inches deep. and both inlet and outlet hoses are at one end.
Unfortunately the end which is totally covered by the air filter and
other assorted pipework EGR pipes ect,running down to the turbo
intercooler.
No access at all from the top of the engine bay , cannot even get one
finger to the bottom hose from above.
The rad is not down at the bottom of the front grill space, its
relatively high up With the turbo intercooler radiator below it.
In days gone by, more simple cars, I used to pull the bottom hose when
the rad was lower, with a hot engine, thermostat open and most of the
coolant came right out.

Al, the 1.5 litres is part of the 6. Interested that you consider the
remaining old fluid not critical. I had hoped someone would comment on
this.
Its all ( well mostly) fresh coolant right now so I wondered if a
regular partial change plan running from now would be ok.
On the plus side I thought the cooling system would be getting a
regular infusion of fresh ethylene glycol. I dont know what happens to
the dwindling molecules of the old coolant and additive though. Like,
does it turn into acid or something?
Mike, Good idea re the tester, I will get one.
Maybe I am spending for too much time thinking about antifreeze but
it was a grueling experience doing our 2 cars the other day.
Thanks everyone for commenting on this,

  #8  
Old May 20th 05, 06:19 PM
Mike Romain
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Antifreeze does wear out eventually but the partial changes will get the
most of it. For the little left, I really wouldn't worry.

My reasoning is I have almost 'never' seen any garage actually open the
drains in the engine block when they do a so called flush and fill.

This leaves a mess of fluid in the block each time.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mikail wrote:
>
> Thanks, Al, Mike & John,
> John, the rad does not have its own header tank or cap. Its like a long
> honeycomb tucked well behind the front grill, about 2 feet wide and
> about 9 inches deep. and both inlet and outlet hoses are at one end.
> Unfortunately the end which is totally covered by the air filter and
> other assorted pipework EGR pipes ect,running down to the turbo
> intercooler.
> No access at all from the top of the engine bay , cannot even get one
> finger to the bottom hose from above.
> The rad is not down at the bottom of the front grill space, its
> relatively high up With the turbo intercooler radiator below it.
> In days gone by, more simple cars, I used to pull the bottom hose when
> the rad was lower, with a hot engine, thermostat open and most of the
> coolant came right out.
>
> Al, the 1.5 litres is part of the 6. Interested that you consider the
> remaining old fluid not critical. I had hoped someone would comment on
> this.
> Its all ( well mostly) fresh coolant right now so I wondered if a
> regular partial change plan running from now would be ok.
> On the plus side I thought the cooling system would be getting a
> regular infusion of fresh ethylene glycol. I dont know what happens to
> the dwindling molecules of the old coolant and additive though. Like,
> does it turn into acid or something?
> Mike, Good idea re the tester, I will get one.
> Maybe I am spending for too much time thinking about antifreeze but
> it was a grueling experience doing our 2 cars the other day.
> Thanks everyone for commenting on this,

  #9  
Old May 20th 05, 06:57 PM
Mikail
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Posts: n/a
Default

Same here Mike, Exactly my experience with garages. Thanks

  #10  
Old May 20th 05, 09:02 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Al Bundy wrote:
> I like your thinking here as a labor saving idea. Remember, if you
> continue this program you will always have at least a tiny bit of the
> original fluid in there. I don't consider that critical though.
> Assuming the 1.5 liter tank is included in the 6 liter capacity then
> you are draining 25% and keeping 75%.
> First change = 75% left of original.
> Second change = .75X.75 or 56.25% of original.
> Third change = .75X .5625 or 42.19% of original.
> So at the end of the year you have less than half the original fluid
> left.
> In the case you describe I think it makes sense. Eventually you have
> almost none of the original.


True, but when would one consider the fluid that was added in the first
and second change "old"?

 




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