Spark Plug R&R on PT Cruiser

"TNKEV" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Russell Lombardo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I am surprised that the Bosch plugs have a poor performance record. Do
> you
>> know why? Wouldn't the company try to fix whatever the problem is? Have
>> you had personal experience with these Bosch plugs?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - Russ In SB

Bosh makes good plugs. They pretty much invented the plat plug back in the
60's [a very expensive multi point plug for exotic vehicles]. Their single
tipped plat plug is a decent low cost item. Their double, triple and quad
plat plugs are pure marketing krap; intended to sell plugs to the
technically ignorant. Instead they should have marketed dual plat and other
technically correct and advanced plugs such as those from Champion and
several Asian vendors. Their spin has hurt their reputation badly. For
Chrysler products the OEM style dual plugs are long lasting and reasonably
priced.

Richard.

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> Yes about .5 TSB 18-024-04 (Cylinder misfire fault) on an 04 PT cruiser
> (still the same as 01) Pays .6. that includes DRB test, Clearing fault,
> Bringing vehicle into the bay and setting up tools, Now grant it that a
> first time job for someone doing this repair would take much more time.

could'ya forward the tsb and others you have (for the pt cruiser) to my
email address thanks

I am a member of many pt related forums and would share the info

Russell Lombardo wrote:

> I am surprised that the Bosch plugs have a poor performance record.

Why? Bosch (as a whole) makes some great stuff, and some real stinkers.
Lately, more stinkers than great.

> Do you
> know why?

The hair-thin center electrode recedes below the surrounding ceramic,
leaving a tiny crater that then gets fouled by any errant fleck of
carbon that comes along, killing the plug.

> Wouldn't the company try to fix whatever the problem is?

No, because they firmly believe that their way of building a center
electrode is better.

>Have
> you had personal experience with these Bosch plugs?

Unfortunately, yes. :-/

Thanks for the information. I just installed the Bosch, so it will be
interesting to see how long they last. I will be sure to write to the forum
with the new data once it is available.

It's interesting that one person noted the single electrode was all you
needed; he mentioned that the multi-electrode versions were for the
technically challenged. I an an engineer with over 25 years of experience.
The reason I bought the Bosch plugs is that was the only choice at my local
Kragen's. I reasoned that the multi-point platinum plugs do not need any
gap setting. In fact, when I looked at them, there didn't appear to be any
way to gap them. Can you gap these plugs?

Thanks again,

- Russ



On 04/29/2005 10:17 AM, in article , "Steve"
> wrote:

> Russell Lombardo wrote:
>
>> I am surprised that the Bosch plugs have a poor performance record.
>
> Why? Bosch (as a whole) makes some great stuff, and some real stinkers.
> Lately, more stinkers than great.
>
>> Do you
>> know why?
>
> The hair-thin center electrode recedes below the surrounding ceramic,
> leaving a tiny crater that then gets fouled by any errant fleck of
> carbon that comes along, killing the plug.
>
>> Wouldn't the company try to fix whatever the problem is?
>
> No, because they firmly believe that their way of building a center
> electrode is better.
>
>> Have
>> you had personal experience with these Bosch plugs?
>
> Unfortunately, yes. :-/
>

In article >,
Russell Lombardo > wrote:

> Thanks for the information. I just installed the Bosch, so it will be
> interesting to see how long they last. I will be sure to write to the forum
> with the new data once it is available.

You're going to be doing the job a second time, and it's going to
be in the near future...

> It's interesting that one person noted the single electrode was all you
> needed; he mentioned that the multi-electrode versions were for the
> technically challenged. I an an engineer with over 25 years of experience.

Then you should fully understand what was stated.

> The reason I bought the Bosch plugs is that was the only choice at my local
> Kragen's.

<rolls eyes>
That's a very good reason to do a 180 and walk out.

> I reasoned that the multi-point platinum plugs do not need any
> gap setting.

That's what Bosch would have you believe.
There are a few things to consider;
There is a definite relationship between the number of air and
fuel molecules between the gaps and whether or not the mixture
will be ignited.
The larger the gap, the higher the load will be on the ignition
secondary.

> In fact, when I looked at them, there didn't appear to be any
> way to gap them. Can you gap these plugs?

I would also point out that the four ground electrode design of
the +4 plugs severely shrouds the point where the secondary arc
occurs and combustion begins to take place, so;
if you throw these Bosch plugs as hard as you can into a trash
barrel, the gap will then be set perfectly.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:15:11 -0700, Russell Lombardo
> wrote:

>I am surprised that the Bosch plugs have a poor performance record. Do you
>know why? Wouldn't the company try to fix whatever the problem is? Have
>you had personal experience with these Bosch plugs?
>
>Thanks,
>

Yes, I have. They are running on their name and putting more money
into advertising than quality control. I've thrown away more Bosch
platinum plugs with less than 20,000Km on them than I can remember -
and lots with less than 10,000Km.
In two cases the vehicles had just been tuned up before leaving for a
trip, and the engines started running like crap within 100 miles. One
went from Rhode Island through florida to Texas and back to florida -
stopping at every Winnebago dealer they came to - and spending close
to $1000 on various repairs and diagnosis that made no difference.
They stumbled into a campground ahead of me, and I offered to take a
look at it. (Winni LeSharo with Renault engine). I pulled the plugs,
took one look at them and said "let's get into town before the
autoparts stores close". Put in a set of ACs and it ran like a charm.
Got a note from them when they got back home - they decided to keep
the camper, which they had sworn they would get rid of as soon as (if)
it got them home.

The other one was almost an identical situation.

Had earlier put a set in my '89 Aerostar 3.0 and took them back out
and returned them after they developped a miss in just a couple weeks
- and swore I'd never install another one.
> - Russ In SB
>
>On 04/26/2005 12:05 PM, in article
, "
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:32:25 -0700, Russell Lombardo
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I just replaced the spark plugs on our 2001 normally aspirated I4 PT
>>> Cruiser. I checked the service manual and was surprised that the intake
>>> manifold had to be removed to gain access to the plugs.
>>>
>>> What a poor design. It was the most complicated tune-up I have ever done.
>>> It took me about two hours instead of 1/2 hour.
>>>
>>> Luckily, the engine miss was gone after replacing the OEM plugs with Bosch
>>> Platinum plugs. My wife thinks I walk on water now. That probably won't
>>> last long.
>>>
>>> Have others had the same challenge? I wonder what the dealer charges for a
>>> tune-up.
>>>
>>> Our other cars include a 1990 Nissan Pathfinder, a 1997 Acura NSX, and a
>>> 2004 Acura TL. We like the PT Cruiser and have over 42,000 miles with no
>>> problems, except one software download for the computer that was done under
>>> warranty.
>>>
>>> - Russ in Santa Barbara
>> Count on doing the job again very soon. Those Bosch Plats have a VERY
>> bad reputation - and all of it well earned.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:17:26 -0500, Steve > wrote:

>Russell Lombardo wrote:
>
>> I am surprised that the Bosch plugs have a poor performance record.
>
>Why? Bosch (as a whole) makes some great stuff, and some real stinkers.
>Lately, more stinkers than great.
>
>> Do you
>> know why?
>
>The hair-thin center electrode recedes below the surrounding ceramic,
>leaving a tiny crater that then gets fouled by any errant fleck of
>carbon that comes along, killing the plug.
>

HAsn't been my experience. My experience has been the insulator/shell
seal leaks, and the combustion products that leak out make a
conductive path up the insulator to the HT connection. THIS shorts out
the plug in short order.
On virtually every one I've had a problem with - and there've been a
pile of them - the insulator was brown at the base.

>> Wouldn't the company try to fix whatever the problem is?
>
>No, because they firmly believe that their way of building a center
>electrode is better.
>
>>Have
>> you had personal experience with these Bosch plugs?
>
>Unfortunately, yes. :-/

mornin'

Had/have a misfire problem on an '05, particularly on throttle after overrun
and very poor cold running and the dealer, Hatfields in Sheffield UK changed
the plugs twice before admiting that the original spec plugs were crap and
then fitting NGK's.
Where does this "half an hour" job time come from (ok, I know really) I've
had to leave the car for a day at least and the last time for three days
while they try to change the plugs!
Thing is, the problem still occurs so maybe it ain't just the plugs, has
there been a firmware upgrade for the engine ecu? but we're getting sick of
taking the car back to them with warranty work that it can stay as it is
'till we get rid of it.

Send me the tsb as well please if you have the time

ta

m


"Punch" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Yes about .5 TSB 18-024-04 (Cylinder misfire fault) on an 04 PT cruiser
>> (still the same as 01) Pays .6. that includes DRB test, Clearing fault,
>> Bringing vehicle into the bay and setting up tools, Now grant it that a
>> first time job for someone doing this repair would take much more time.
>
> could'ya forward the tsb and others you have (for the pt cruiser) to my
> email address thanks
>
> I am a member of many pt related forums and would share the info
>

Russell Lombardo wrote:

> Thanks for the information. I just installed the Bosch, so it will be

Hi Russell,

PT with Bosch sparks? Can You tell me which model you are driving and the
type of sparks? Over here in Germany I can find Bosch sparks for my 2.0
limited ...

--
Wir mailen uns ... Hans

Hello Hans,

We have a 2001 Limited Edition PT Cruiser with the 2.4 liter 4 cylinder with
150 hp.

The spark plugs are the Bosch Platinum 2, Part No. 4314.

- Russ in Santa Barbara

"Hans Mücke" > wrote in message
...
> Russell Lombardo wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the information. I just installed the Bosch, so it will be
>
> Hi Russell,
>
> PT with Bosch sparks? Can You tell me which model you are driving and the
> type of sparks? Over here in Germany I can find Bosch sparks for my 2.0
> limited ...
>
> --
> Wir mailen uns ... Hans