San Fransisco "Cross Walks"

necromancer wrote:
> Sir Lex:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM
>>
>> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
>> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.
>>
>> I've never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
>> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked. Are these types of
>> crossings standard across the country? Are there any warning signs
>> leading up to these crossings? Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?
>
> Is this what you mean by "Zebra crossing layout?"
>
> http://tinyurl.com/28lq8w
>

Exactly. Or these:

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/ima...k_zebra-01.jpg

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/lbug...darlingst5.jpg

I'm just baffled as to how two single lines running against traffic can
be deemed appropriate to highlight a cross walk/pedestrian crossing?
The extra markings of a zebra crossing would surely make the crossing
far more visible to traffic?

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Pun intended?... maybe :-)

Sir Lex wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM
>
> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.
>
> I've never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked. Are these types of
> crossings standard across the country? Are there any warning signs
> leading up to these crossings? Why not use a Zebra crossing layout
> instead?

Are there any traffic lights at these intersections? If there are,
wouldn't it make more sense for pedestrians to wait for the walk signal
prior to crossing?

Scott in SoCal wrote:
> Sir Lex > said in rec.autos.driving:
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM
>>
>> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
>> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.
>>
>> I've never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
>> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.
>
> It's in an obvious place where you KNOW a crosswalk is going to be.
> According to the law, it does not need to be marked at all - drivers
> must still yield to pedestrians.
>
>> Are these types of crossings standard across the country?
>
> Pretty much.
>
>> Are there any warning signs leading up to these crossings?
>
> No, because nobody needs them - everybody KNOWS there is a crosswalk
> at an urban intersection like that. The only time there are warning
> signs is when the crosswalk is in an unexpected place, such as the
> middle of a block.

Fair enough. So drivers don't give way to pedestrians here, simply out
of arrogance?

>> Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?
>
> Waste of paint.

I found the whole video odd as here in Australia, I must've used
crossings thousands of times in my lifetime, and the number of times
drivers have failed to give way to me are so few, that I can clearly
remember both occasions.

We also use Zebra crossings here. The only time an arrangement of two
lines painted across the road is used is when there are also a set of
traffic lights to control traffic.

On Sep 27, 8:40 am, Sir Lex > wrote:
> Scott in SoCal wrote:
> > Sir Lex > said in rec.autos.driving:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM
>
> >> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
> >> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.
>
> >> I've never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
> >> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.
>
> > It's in an obvious place where you KNOW a crosswalk is going to be.
> > According to the law, it does not need to be marked at all - drivers
> > must still yield to pedestrians.
>
> >> Are these types of crossings standard across the country?
>
> > Pretty much.
>
> >> Are there any warning signs leading up to these crossings?
>
> > No, because nobody needs them - everybody KNOWS there is a crosswalk
> > at an urban intersection like that. The only time there are warning
> > signs is when the crosswalk is in an unexpected place, such as the
> > middle of a block.
>
> Fair enough. So drivers don't give way to pedestrians here, simply out
> of arrogance?
>
> >> Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?
>
> > Waste of paint.
>
> I found the whole video odd as here in Australia, I must've used
> crossings thousands of times in my lifetime, and the number of times
> drivers have failed to give way to me are so few, that I can clearly
> remember both occasions.
>
> We also use Zebra crossings here. The only time an arrangement of two
> lines painted across the road is used is when there are also a set of
> traffic lights to control traffic.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Here on Long Island (NY), the general layout on non-residental streets
(main roads/arterials) was for the 'outlined' crosswalk (double lines
a set distance apart running from curb to curb, pedestrians nominally
walk between the lines).
However, over the past few years (decade?), 'Zebra' crossing (to me,
defined as a series of painted bars, running from curb to curb, each
bar line parallel to the direction of traffic) have become much more
commonplace.
In most residental areas (on secondary roads), no crosswalk lines are
provided at intersections, and the crosswalk(s) are implicit -
apparently no muncipality wants to 'waste' paint on those.

Sir Lex:
> necromancer wrote:
> > Sir Lex:
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM
> >>
> >> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
> >> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.
> >>
> >> I've never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
> >> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked. Are these types of
> >> crossings standard across the country? Are there any warning signs
> >> leading up to these crossings? Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?
> >
> > Is this what you mean by "Zebra crossing layout?"
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/28lq8w
> >
>
> Exactly. Or these:
>
> http://www.driveandstayalive.com/ima...k_zebra-01.jpg
>
> http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/lbug...darlingst5.jpg

Just my curiosity, but what do the zig-zagging lines mean?

> I'm just baffled as to how two single lines running against traffic can
> be deemed appropriate to highlight a cross walk/pedestrian crossing?
> The extra markings of a zebra crossing would surely make the crossing
> far more visible to traffic?

Good question. There are a couple of corsswalks that are in the middle
of intersections around here that are the "Zebra," type and also have a
crosswalk warning light system (drivers must yield of the lights which
are embedded in the road surface are flashing), yet some drivers still
don't see them.

> Different strokes for different folks I guess.
>
> Pun intended?... maybe :-)

--
necromancer

Deadly Psychopath. And Proud of it, Man!!

On Sep 27, 4:10 pm, necromancer
> wrote:
> Just my curiosity, but what do the zig-zagging lines mean?
Well, I thought they were there as a psychological measure (Alert!
Zebra Crossing coming up!), but the real answer seems a lot simplier:
The Zig-zag lines define the 'controlled' area of the crossing

"They also have zigzag lines along the edge of the road on both sides
of the crossing, where vehicles may not park. This is so that
visibility is kept to the maximum for both pedestrians and drivers,
but this area is not intended to be used for crossing the road"
and
"Zig zag lines are placed before and after the crossing to protect the
crossing. There are two things drivers' should never do within the zig
zag lines, these a
Park and leave your vehicle. As this will obscure the view of oncoming
traffic when approaching the crossing.
Overtake. A driver should never overtake within the zig zag lines, as
this will endanger the pedestrian who is on the crossing."