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Brake fluid flush question



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 20th 06, 03:24 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
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Default Brake fluid flush question

Today I was doing my every-2-year brake fluid flush on my BMW.
I had finished with the two back wheels, and was starting on
the front passenger side wheel, when I sheared off the bleed
screw on the caliper DAMMIT! So, now, there's no part of
it above the caliper housing as it sheared evenly at about the
housing level. What really annoys is that I was leaving for
Florida in the morning in the car, but I wanted to finish the
flush first. I'm gonna try to find a shop that'll get the thing
out and put a new one in in the morning but may be unalbe
to on such short notice. (I tried for a while doing this myself,
but have finished with that attempt.)

This may seem like a stupid question, but it's not something
I've thought much about: If I use the car for a couple of weeks
with the front lines un-flushed, would the fluid in those lines
affect the nice clean fluid in the lines to the back wheels?
IOW, if I flush the front lines in a couple of weeks, will it
be as good as if I'd been able to do them all today? Thanks.

--F

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  #3  
Old April 20th 06, 05:09 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
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Default Brake fluid flush question


"« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
> wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>>
>> Today I was doing my every-2-year brake fluid flush on my BMW.
>> I had finished with the two back wheels, and was starting on
>> the front passenger side wheel, when I sheared off the bleed
>> screw on the caliper DAMMIT! So, now, there's no part of
>> it above the caliper housing as it sheared evenly at about the
>> housing level. What really annoys is that I was leaving for
>> Florida in the morning in the car, but I wanted to finish the
>> flush first. I'm gonna try to find a shop that'll get the thing
>> out and put a new one in in the morning but may be unalbe
>> to on such short notice. (I tried for a while doing this myself,
>> but have finished with that attempt.)
>>
>> This may seem like a stupid question, but it's not something
>> I've thought much about: If I use the car for a couple of weeks
>> with the front lines un-flushed, would the fluid in those lines
>> affect the nice clean fluid in the lines to the back wheels?
>> IOW, if I flush the front lines in a couple of weeks, will it
>> be as good as if I'd been able to do them all today? Thanks.
>>
>> --F

>
> If a BMW has only one reservoir for the fluid, then it will eventually
> mix.
> Crack the line at the caliper and bleed it that way.


You know, I don't think it will at lest not very quickly, it mostly travels
up and down in the same spot.

We had to drill out and use an "easy out" to remove the broken bleed screw
on my E36.

-Russ.



  #4  
Old April 20th 06, 10:45 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question

wrote:
> Today I was doing my every-2-year brake fluid flush on my BMW.
> I had finished with the two back wheels, and was starting on
> the front passenger side wheel, when I sheared off the bleed
> screw on the caliper DAMMIT! So, now, there's no part of
> it above the caliper housing as it sheared evenly at about the
> housing level. What really annoys is that I was leaving for
> Florida in the morning in the car, but I wanted to finish the
> flush first. I'm gonna try to find a shop that'll get the thing
> out and put a new one in in the morning but may be unalbe
> to on such short notice. (I tried for a while doing this myself,
> but have finished with that attempt.)
>
> This may seem like a stupid question, but it's not something
> I've thought much about: If I use the car for a couple of weeks
> with the front lines un-flushed, would the fluid in those lines
> affect the nice clean fluid in the lines to the back wheels?
> IOW, if I flush the front lines in a couple of weeks, will it
> be as good as if I'd been able to do them all today? Thanks.
>
> --F
>


I'd just drive the car and not worry about it, but when you do get the
bleeder screw fixed might as well flush the system completely.

Theoretically the only intermixing of the fluid would happen way up at
the reservoir, but it doesn't take that much more time...

just curious, does your BMW have those little rubber caps on the
bleeders? I've found those to be quite useful; at least I've never
owned a car that still had them that I had any problems bleeding.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #5  
Old April 20th 06, 12:40 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question

wrote:
> Today I was doing my every-2-year brake fluid flush on my BMW.
> I had finished with the two back wheels, and was starting on
> the front passenger side wheel, when I sheared off the bleed
> screw on the caliper DAMMIT! So, now, there's no part of
> it above the caliper housing as it sheared evenly at about the
> housing level. What really annoys is that I was leaving for
> Florida in the morning in the car, but I wanted to finish the
> flush first. I'm gonna try to find a shop that'll get the thing
> out and put a new one in in the morning but may be unalbe
> to on such short notice. (I tried for a while doing this myself,
> but have finished with that attempt.)
>
> This may seem like a stupid question, but it's not something
> I've thought much about: If I use the car for a couple of weeks
> with the front lines un-flushed, would the fluid in those lines
> affect the nice clean fluid in the lines to the back wheels?
> IOW, if I flush the front lines in a couple of weeks, will it
> be as good as if I'd been able to do them all today? Thanks.
>
> --F
>


I think you already know the answer or you would not have asked the
question. You will need to re-do the rear lines because some of the old
fluid will mix with the new fluid given enough time and braking cycles.

--
-Fred W
  #6  
Old April 20th 06, 12:45 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question

« Paul » wrote:

>
> If a BMW has only one reservoir for the fluid, then it will eventually mix.
> Crack the line at the caliper and bleed it that way.


I would *not* attempt to bleed the brakes by opening the brake line at
the banjo bolt. It's hard enough to get all the air out when done
correctly. Why not just fix the broken fitting and do it the right way?


--
-Fred W
  #7  
Old April 21st 06, 03:07 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question

Fred W wrote:
>
> « Paul » wrote:
>
> >
> > If a BMW has only one reservoir for the fluid, then it will eventually mix.
> > Crack the line at the caliper and bleed it that way.

>
> I would *not* attempt to bleed the brakes by opening the brake line at
> the banjo bolt. It's hard enough to get all the air out when done
> correctly. Why not just fix the broken fitting and do it the right way?
>
> --
> -Fred W


Success depends on the amount of common sense of the person(s) doing the bleeding.
  #8  
Old April 30th 06, 08:02 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question


Nate Nagel wrote:
> wrote:
> > Today I was doing my every-2-year brake fluid flush on my BMW.
> > I had finished with the two back wheels, and was starting on
> > the front passenger side wheel, when I sheared off the bleed
> > screw on the caliper DAMMIT! So, now, there's no part of
> > it above the caliper housing as it sheared evenly at about the
> > housing level. What really annoys is that I was leaving for
> > Florida in the morning in the car, but I wanted to finish the
> > flush first. I'm gonna try to find a shop that'll get the thing
> > out and put a new one in in the morning but may be unalbe
> > to on such short notice. (I tried for a while doing this myself,
> > but have finished with that attempt.)
> >
> > This may seem like a stupid question, but it's not something
> > I've thought much about: If I use the car for a couple of weeks
> > with the front lines un-flushed, would the fluid in those lines
> > affect the nice clean fluid in the lines to the back wheels?
> > IOW, if I flush the front lines in a couple of weeks, will it
> > be as good as if I'd been able to do them all today? Thanks.
> >
> > --F
> >

>
> I'd just drive the car and not worry about it,


Yep Nate, that's exactly what I did. I'm back now after
10 days of no Web access and no phones...bliss.

I couldn't find a shop that could fix the thing on short notice,
but now that I'm back, I'm thinking of trying to get it
out myself. I've got a drill, but I need a little bit that will bite
into the metal, just enough to perhaps makes a couple of little
notches so I could try and use a little screw driver to back the
bleeder out. It's hard to believe I put it in so tight 16 months
ago when I replaced pads and rotors on that car. The bits I
have supposedly can be used with metal, but I can't get
it to bite at all. Are there any special bits I could get that
would bite?

Another thing, this bleeder is officially called a "ventilation
valve" and is VERY hard to find. Dealerships don't carry them
and I haven't found any on line after briefly searching. I'm surprised
that they're not needed enough for them to be in stock.

> just curious, does your BMW have those little rubber caps on the
> bleeders? I've found those to be quite useful; at least I've never
> owned a car that still had them that I had any problems bleeding.


Yes, they do have those little rubber caps. I guess they are to
provide redundancy in case a bleeder somehow got loose,
causing no brakes without one. I think that's the cause of my
problem. Even though I thought I was being careful not to
overtighten those little things, I did. I always have this nightmare
thought of one coming loose while driving.

--
F

  #9  
Old May 1st 06, 01:03 AM posted to alt.autos.bmw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question

wrote:
<snip>

(OP snapped off a bleeder screw from a brake caliper.)

> I couldn't find a shop that could fix the thing on short notice,
> but now that I'm back, I'm thinking of trying to get it
> out myself. I've got a drill, but I need a little bit that will bite
> into the metal, just enough to perhaps makes a couple of little
> notches so I could try and use a little screw driver to back the
> bleeder out. It's hard to believe I put it in so tight 16 months
> ago when I replaced pads and rotors on that car. The bits I
> have supposedly can be used with metal, but I can't get
> it to bite at all. Are there any special bits I could get that
> would bite?


These are difficult to remove once broken. I suspect the bleed screw
has seized in its hole, which is why it broke to begin with. The
"screwdriver" approach sounds interesting but I doubt you'll be able to
generate enough torque. You might have better luck with a screw extractor.

I have successfully removed a broken, seized bleed screw by drilling it
out, drilling out the bore, retapping it a size larger, reaming the
seat, and replacing the bleed screw with a larger one. However, this is
one case where I recommend that you have a professional do the job. If
you break off a screw extractor or drill bit inside the screw, it's all
over. (Well, I suppose you could try again with a carbide bit.) If you
cock the drill, the resulting hole might be too far off-center to have
any prayer of the new bleed screw seating and therefore sealing
properly, and without a vertical mill it will be impossible to put right.

Let a pro take these risks--if the pro destroys the caliper, it's his
problem. Even if the pro won't take the risk, most have done enough
things like this to be able to pull off the repair if it's possible and
salvage the caliper.

> Another thing, this bleeder is officially called a "ventilation
> valve" and is VERY hard to find. Dealerships don't carry them
> and I haven't found any on line after briefly searching. I'm surprised
> that they're not needed enough for them to be in stock.


This is a regular bleed screw, isn't it? If so, nearly any random auto
parts store should have them. Remove the one from the other side and
take it with you to make sure you get the right size. (Obviously, this
requires taking a different car!)

>>just curious, does your BMW have those little rubber caps on the
>>bleeders? I've found those to be quite useful; at least I've never
>>owned a car that still had them that I had any problems bleeding.


They are useful in preventing a certain amount of corrosion from
entrapped water, which could lead to the screw seizing.

> Yes, they do have those little rubber caps. I guess they are to
> provide redundancy in case a bleeder somehow got loose,
> causing no brakes without one. I think that's the cause of my
> problem. Even though I thought I was being careful not to
> overtighten those little things, I did. I always have this nightmare
> thought of one coming loose while driving.


The rubber caps provide NO redundancy. They will not contain the
hydraulic pressure required to stop the car. They are just there to
keep water and road grit out of the bleed screw's bore.

I know it's too late now, but when you suspect that a bleed screw might
be seized, try to tighten it, too. Any movement of the threads will
enable you to work it out by tightening and loosening it (probably many
times) so the threads can be chased.

JRE
  #10  
Old May 2nd 06, 09:47 AM posted to alt.autos.bmw
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake fluid flush question

In article .com>,
> wrote:
> I bought a new torque wrench and will try to find a little deep socket
> to fit this thing so it doesn't happen again. I have a tendency to over
> tighten, unfortunately.


It's all too easy when using a socket set on smaller sizes as the leverage
is too high. Ring spanners are in different lengths according to nut size
which limits the torque you can apply to somewhere near the correct
amount. So if not using a ring spanner on smaller sizes and not a torque
wrench (which really isn't necessary for things like bleed screws) grip
the socket set handle near the pivot rather than at the end. Or use a 1/4
drive set for the smaller stuff since the handles on these are usually
only about 6" long rather than more than double that on a 1/2" type.

HTH.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 




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