The perfect road!

The comment about preferring gotcha.... Just as ignorance is no
excuse... failure to pay attention to EVERYTHING will get ya under
"inattentive operation".

No matter what you say or do, you open yourself up.

If I am on patrol (mind you I am retired now) and I see you driving, I
can fall in behind you and in a short period of time find a citable
offense. For example... can you prove you came to a complete stop? If
in my opinion your wheels did not come to a total and visible
cessation of motion... then you rolled the stop. Once I have you
stopped, I can check you out for DUI, look in visible sight/within
your reach for anything illegal, etc. and if I see/detect anything...
well let's just say it doesn't look good for you.

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:24:03 -0800, Garth Almgren >
wrote:

>Around 2/6/2005 3:16 PM, Deputy Dog wrote:
>
>> That question is part of the training, if you answer yes, it can and will be
>> used against you if you contest the ticket I've used the response "no but
>> i'm sure you do" with a big smile of course.
>
>I've always wondered how this would work:
>
> "Do you know how fast you were going?"
>
> "Sure I do - a reasonable and prudent speed for the current conditions."
>
> "Care to be more specific?"
>
> "I'm sorry, no can do; I prefer to watch the road rather than my
>speedometer."
>
>Probably not well (can you say "Contempt of Cop" ticket?), but it'd be
>interesting to try - once.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Now I have a self inking stamp that I dying to use if I get a ticket. The
printed text is:

Without Prejudice
Non Assumpsit Contract
All Rights Reserved

Now, I'm told that if I use the stamp then sign the ticket (which only
acknowledging receipt) the ticket becomes a useless piece of paper. Any
lawyers out there that would care to offer an opinion?

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

"Spike" > wrote in message
...
> The comment about preferring gotcha.... Just as ignorance is no
> excuse... failure to pay attention to EVERYTHING will get ya under
> "inattentive operation".
>
> No matter what you say or do, you open yourself up.
>
> If I am on patrol (mind you I am retired now) and I see you driving, I
> can fall in behind you and in a short period of time find a citable
> offense. For example... can you prove you came to a complete stop? If
> in my opinion your wheels did not come to a total and visible
> cessation of motion... then you rolled the stop. Once I have you
> stopped, I can check you out for DUI, look in visible sight/within
> your reach for anything illegal, etc. and if I see/detect anything...
> well let's just say it doesn't look good for you.
>
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:24:03 -0800, Garth Almgren >
> wrote:
>
> >Around 2/6/2005 3:16 PM, Deputy Dog wrote:
> >
> >> That question is part of the training, if you answer yes, it can and
will be
> >> used against you if you contest the ticket I've used the response "no
but
> >> i'm sure you do" with a big smile of course.
> >
> >I've always wondered how this would work:
> >
> > "Do you know how fast you were going?"
> >
> > "Sure I do - a reasonable and prudent speed for the current
conditions."
> >
> > "Care to be more specific?"
> >
> > "I'm sorry, no can do; I prefer to watch the road rather than my
> >speedometer."
> >
> >Probably not well (can you say "Contempt of Cop" ticket?), but it'd be
> >interesting to try - once.
>
> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Spike wrote:
> The comment about preferring gotcha.... Just as ignorance is no
> excuse... failure to pay attention to EVERYTHING will get ya under
> "inattentive operation".
>
> No matter what you say or do, you open yourself up.

How comforting. And from a veteran (pun intended), no less. And I'd
expect you to be busting the chops of the cocky rookies.

Failing to pay attention to this unqualified "everything" is impossible.

> If I am on patrol (mind you I am retired now) and I see you driving, I
> can fall in behind you and in a short period of time find a citable
> offense.

As could most anyone; what's your point?

>For example... can you prove you came to a complete stop?

Wait a minute. It's the burden of the law to prove beyond a reasonable
doubt that a person did something illegal, not the burden of the
suspected person to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he or she DIDN'T do
something illegal. Did you forget that?

If
> in my opinion your wheels did not come to a total and visible
> cessation of motion... then you rolled the stop.

What if I drive a stick, come to a stop sign on a slight hill, and roll
forward toward the sign, then back a little, as I disengaged and then
re-engaged the clutch. I did actually stop, but for a very short period
of time. Would you be able to tell, every single time? Don't think so.

Once I have you
> stopped, I can check you out for DUI, look in visible sight/within
> your reach for anything illegal, etc. and if I see/detect anything...
> well let's just say it doesn't look good for you.

I just don't understand this attitude, and never will. You not only
screw up the whole "who's got to prove what" thing just to serve your
own ego trip, you waste my time, the court's, your own, and the public's
with your "I'm the Terminator" power trip.

It's crap like this that makes the work of the police officer look petty
and egomaniacal rather than noble, which it actually is.


--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

Richard wrote:
> Now I have a self inking stamp that I dying to use if I get a ticket. The
> printed text is:
>
> Without Prejudice
> Non Assumpsit Contract
> All Rights Reserved
>
> Now, I'm told that if I use the stamp then sign the ticket (which only
> acknowledging receipt) the ticket becomes a useless piece of paper. Any
> lawyers out there that would care to offer an opinion?

Where'd you get it? All Rights Reserved... lol..

Maybe I'll email the attorney I used to get out of the last ticket about
this.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

It's my understanding the "all rights reserved" means that you have
effectively copyrighted your signature and as such any use thereof ( in this
case the ticket) must be explicitly granted by you the copyright owner.

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

"Wound Up" > wrote in message
...
> Richard wrote:
> > Now I have a self inking stamp that I dying to use if I get a ticket.
The
> > printed text is:
> >
> > Without Prejudice
> > Non Assumpsit Contract
> > All Rights Reserved
> >
> > Now, I'm told that if I use the stamp then sign the ticket (which only
> > acknowledging receipt) the ticket becomes a useless piece of paper. Any
> > lawyers out there that would care to offer an opinion?
>
> Where'd you get it? All Rights Reserved... lol..
>
> Maybe I'll email the attorney I used to get out of the last ticket about
> this.
>
> --
> Wound Up
> ThunderSnake #65
>

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 05:02:13 GMT, Wound Up
> wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> The comment about preferring gotcha.... Just as ignorance is no
>> excuse... failure to pay attention to EVERYTHING will get ya under
>> "inattentive operation".
>>
>> No matter what you say or do, you open yourself up.
>
>How comforting. And from a veteran (pun intended), no less. And I'd
>expect you to be busting the chops of the cocky rookies.

Why? People will do what people will do. I was never the judge or
jury... I just enforced the laws that were there. The cop who gets too
wrapped up in it all burns out fast. You do 2 things.. you do your job
as best you can and you make sure you go home after work.
>
>Failing to pay attention to this unqualified "everything" is impossible.

That may be but the laws are written in such a way that it's the
driver's responsibility to pay attention to everything even if it's
not possible. One of the reasons drivers are supposed to be taught to
continuously be watching all around... it's called defensive
driving... and that can include defending against being stopped.
>
>> If I am on patrol (mind you I am retired now) and I see you driving, I
>> can fall in behind you and in a short period of time find a citable
>> offense.
>
>As could most anyone; what's your point?
>
>>For example... can you prove you came to a complete stop?
>
>Wait a minute. It's the burden of the law to prove beyond a reasonable
>doubt that a person did something illegal, not the burden of the
>suspected person to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he or she DIDN'T do
>something illegal. Did you forget that?

Wrong. Many of the laws assume you are guilty out of hand. A simple
example is parking illegally. It makes no difference who was driving.
The car was registered to you. Or if drugs are found in your car, it's
on you unless someone else in the car admits they put it there.
Seatbelts... your kid or whoever undoes their seatbelt and a cop sees,
bingo. Get real and see how the court system really works.

You are SUPPOSED to be innocent until proven guilty, but quite often
you have already lost the moment you walk in the door.

>
>If
>> in my opinion your wheels did not come to a total and visible
>> cessation of motion... then you rolled the stop.
>
>What if I drive a stick, come to a stop sign on a slight hill, and roll
>forward toward the sign, then back a little, as I disengaged and then
>re-engaged the clutch. I did actually stop, but for a very short period
>of time. Would you be able to tell, every single time? Don't think so.

Doesn't matter. I can write the cite and it's up to you to fight it.
>
>Once I have you
>> stopped, I can check you out for DUI, look in visible sight/within
>> your reach for anything illegal, etc. and if I see/detect anything...
>> well let's just say it doesn't look good for you.
>
>I just don't understand this attitude, and never will. You not only
>screw up the whole "who's got to prove what" thing just to serve your
>own ego trip, you waste my time, the court's, your own, and the public's
>with your "I'm the Terminator" power trip.
>
>It's crap like this that makes the work of the police officer look petty
>and egomaniacal rather than noble, which it actually is.

I gave you examples of how it could go. NOT how I personally operated
during my 21 years. You are correct. There are cops like that that do
ruin the system, and I spent a lot of time training rookies that this
is NOT the way they should function.

I have also experienced a great many citizens who violate the rules of
the road on a daily basis, and then get irate when the get stopped. As
one "gentleman" put it, "I've been running this intersection for ten
years and your and AH for stopping me." I didn't stop him. The lady
with the car load of kids he wiped out stopped him.

It's a tough enough job, but it's one rarely understood by anyone who
has never had to deal with the worst side of life on a daily basis.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

Richard wrote:
> It's my understanding the "all rights reserved" means that you have
> effectively copyrighted your signature and as such any use thereof ( in this
> case the ticket) must be explicitly granted by you the copyright owner.

I see. Have you heard anyone actually do this? Just curious. If so,
I'm getting myself a stamp to try out next time.

I wonder if this could be perverted into resisting arrest, since getting
stopped is getting arrested.


--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

The person who told me about getting the stamp told me that he has used it.
He told me that the officer asked him about it and he responded that he was
merely protecting his identity. The officer then went back to his car and
called in and then came back and said asked for his copy of the ticket and
was told that he would just be given a verbal warning.

I don't think that the issuing of a ticket or being stopped is the same as
being arrested. Arrested implies that you have been taken into custody .I
would think that being arrested would also at the very least require the
officer to "read you your rights". Is that being Mirandaized?

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

"Wound Up" > wrote in message
...
> Richard wrote:
> > It's my understanding the "all rights reserved" means that you have
> > effectively copyrighted your signature and as such any use thereof ( in
this
> > case the ticket) must be explicitly granted by you the copyright owner.
>
> I see. Have you heard anyone actually do this? Just curious. If so,
> I'm getting myself a stamp to try out next time.
>
> I wonder if this could be perverted into resisting arrest, since getting
> stopped is getting arrested.
>
>
> --
> Wound Up
> ThunderSnake #65
>

Spike wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 05:02:13 GMT, Wound Up
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Spike wrote:
>>
>>>The comment about preferring gotcha.... Just as ignorance is no
>>>excuse... failure to pay attention to EVERYTHING will get ya under
>>>"inattentive operation".
>>>
>>>No matter what you say or do, you open yourself up.
>>
>>How comforting. And from a veteran (pun intended), no less. And I'd
>>expect you to be busting the chops of the cocky rookies.
>
>
> Why? People will do what people will do. I was never the judge or
> jury... I just enforced the laws that were there. The cop who gets too
> wrapped up in it all burns out fast. You do 2 things.. you do your job
> as best you can and you make sure you go home after work.
>

I'd think that's all you'd be able to do. But you sounded like you were
the judge and the jury.

>>Failing to pay attention to this unqualified "everything" is impossible.
>
>
> That may be but the laws are written in such a way that it's the
> driver's responsibility to pay attention to everything even if it's
> not possible. One of the reasons drivers are supposed to be taught to
> continuously be watching all around... it's called defensive
> driving... and that can include defending against being stopped.

I understand the point, but the premise is wrong. Believe me, I hate
inattentive drivers. People don't look in their mirrors for 10 minutes,
and I may glance every 10 sec. or less. Is "humanly possible" part of
that language? Drivers are human.

>>>If I am on patrol (mind you I am retired now) and I see you driving, I
>>>can fall in behind you and in a short period of time find a citable
>>>offense.
>>
>>As could most anyone; what's your point?
>>
>>
>>>For example... can you prove you came to a complete stop?
>>
>>Wait a minute. It's the burden of the law to prove beyond a reasonable
>>doubt that a person did something illegal, not the burden of the
>>suspected person to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he or she DIDN'T do
>>something illegal. Did you forget that?
>
>
> Wrong. Many of the laws assume you are guilty out of hand. A simple
> example is parking illegally. It makes no difference who was driving.

It should.

> The car was registered to you. Or if drugs are found in your car, it's
> on you unless someone else in the car admits they put it there.

That's crap, too. I don't frisk my passengers. It's because there is
no easy way to determine.. I know.. but it gets good people in trouble.
I had an MIP because of this.

> Seatbelts... your kid or whoever undoes their seatbelt and a cop sees,
> bingo. Get real and see how the court system really works.

I have been there, and done that, and bitten my tongue. What I said
(sadly) is purely rhetorical because of course I know the criminal
screw-you-over system doesn't work that way. If, by luck of the draw,
you get a good judge, it'll probably be ok. Not good enough. Sadly
inadequate. Envy of the world? Why?

> You are SUPPOSED to be innocent until proven guilty, but quite often
> you have already lost the moment you walk in the door.

Most of the time. The vast majority. Their minds are made up, and they
don't want to hear a word.

>>If
>>
>>>in my opinion your wheels did not come to a total and visible
>>>cessation of motion... then you rolled the stop.
>>
>>What if I drive a stick, come to a stop sign on a slight hill, and roll
>>forward toward the sign, then back a little, as I disengaged and then
>>re-engaged the clutch. I did actually stop, but for a very short period
>>of time. Would you be able to tell, every single time? Don't think so.
>
>
> Doesn't matter. I can write the cite and it's up to you to fight it.

What a waste, man! Really, I mean, think about it. How ridiculous.

>
>>Once I have you
>>
>>>stopped, I can check you out for DUI, look in visible sight/within
>>>your reach for anything illegal, etc. and if I see/detect anything...
>>>well let's just say it doesn't look good for you.
>>
>>I just don't understand this attitude, and never will. You not only
>>screw up the whole "who's got to prove what" thing just to serve your
>>own ego trip, you waste my time, the court's, your own, and the public's
>>with your "I'm the Terminator" power trip.
>>
>>It's crap like this that makes the work of the police officer look petty
>>and egomaniacal rather than noble, which it actually is.
>
>
> I gave you examples of how it could go. NOT how I personally operated
> during my 21 years. You are correct. There are cops like that that do
> ruin the system, and I spent a lot of time training rookies that this
> is NOT the way they should function.

Well I'm glad to hear that.

>
> I have also experienced a great many citizens who violate the rules of
> the road on a daily basis, and then get irate when the get stopped. As
> one "gentleman" put it, "I've been running this intersection for ten
> years and your and AH for stopping me." I didn't stop him. The lady
> with the car load of kids he wiped out stopped him.

That's an insolated and extreme incident. Yeah, I know, people get
****ed off and ridiculous. And that incident ****ed you off badly, I'm
sure, as did many others. But I think too many develop a haughty
attitude toward people who don't deserve it.

It's really too bad there are so many crappy and negligent drivers out
there. Maybe this wouldn't be such a problem.

>
> It's a tough enough job, but it's one rarely understood by anyone who
> has never had to deal with the worst side of life on a daily basis.
>

Fair enough I suppose.. I just hate these traffic laws and the way some
cops love to put it to you with them. I didn't take his seatbelt off, I
told him to put the damned thing on or I wasn't moving because of this.
I actually do this, because it's my car, and my ass. So he takes it
off later. What, am I supposed to stop on an interstate and get into a
wrestling match over the belt, or boot him out of my car? It gets to
the point where it's a no-win. And it should never get there.

> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16


--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

Richard wrote:
> The person who told me about getting the stamp told me that he has used it.
> He told me that the officer asked him about it and he responded that he was
> merely protecting his identity. The officer then went back to his car and
> called in and then came back and said asked for his copy of the ticket and
> was told that he would just be given a verbal warning.

Interesting..

>
> I don't think that the issuing of a ticket or being stopped is the same as
> being arrested. Arrested implies that you have been taken into custody .I
> would think that being arrested would also at the very least require the
> officer to "read you your rights". Is that being Mirandaized?

Yes it is. But when stopped, you are under the control and direction of
the officer, so it is in a being taken into a sort of custody. Not
quite the same thing as being physically taken away, so I get your point.

>


--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65