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Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 20th 03, 02:17 PM
Keng
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Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

Hello all

So I am new to all of this. I just moved to Buffalo NY last month and
I just purchased a 72 gal bow front and would like your suggestions on
filters for a plant tank. I read thru most of the messages right up to
'99 but kinda figured I would throw this question out again.

A. Firstly, since I am starting from scratch... here is what I have
bought so far

5 X 16lbs flourite
5 X 25lbs gravel

Is this enough? It hasnt been delivered yet so I guess I could always
change the ratio and amount. Opinions?

1 X CO2 from Nutrafin

B. I need a filter. So far I found out that a canister filter is
probably my best option. And by the looks of things a Fluval or an
ehiem would be a good choice. Anyone recommend the Ehiem with the
heater integrated with it? I have seen a couple of other filter such
as the internal ProAquatics filter which comes with a heater inside
it. I dont think I would want a filter that hangs on the outside
because I want the tank pretty close to the wall. I am a bargain
hunter so recommendations on where to buy it cheap would be FANTASTIC.

I think thats about it for the moment. Any opinions, suggestions or
information is greatly appreciated. Especially now. Thanks in advance.

Keng
  #2  
Old October 20th 03, 03:32 PM
Rick
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Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker


"Keng" wrote in message
om...
Hello all

So I am new to all of this. I just moved to Buffalo NY last month and
I just purchased a 72 gal bow front and would like your suggestions on
filters for a plant tank. I read thru most of the messages right up to
'99 but kinda figured I would throw this question out again.

A. Firstly, since I am starting from scratch... here is what I have
bought so far

5 X 16lbs flourite
5 X 25lbs gravel

Is this enough? It hasnt been delivered yet so I guess I could always
change the ratio and amount. Opinions?

1 X CO2 from Nutrafin

B. I need a filter. So far I found out that a canister filter is
probably my best option. And by the looks of things a Fluval or an
ehiem would be a good choice. Anyone recommend the Ehiem with the
heater integrated with it? I have seen a couple of other filter such
as the internal ProAquatics filter which comes with a heater inside
it. I dont think I would want a filter that hangs on the outside
because I want the tank pretty close to the wall. I am a bargain
hunter so recommendations on where to buy it cheap would be FANTASTIC.

I think thats about it for the moment. Any opinions, suggestions or
information is greatly appreciated. Especially now. Thanks in advance.

Keng


the filter is a matter of choice. I'm running a Fluval 404 in my 77g. I also
have a Filstar XP3 and of course the Ehiem , many consider to be the best.
If you have the Hagen CO2 system then one will not be enough for your size
tank.

Rick


  #3  
Old October 20th 03, 10:15 PM
Dave Millman
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Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

Keng wrote:

Hello all

So I am new to all of this. I just moved to Buffalo NY last month and
I just purchased a 72 gal bow front and would like your suggestions on
filters for a plant tank.


I have had your tank as my planted display tank for two years. If you want
some hard-won wisdom, read on. It may not be what you want to hear.

A. Firstly, since I am starting from scratch... here is what I have
bought so far

5 X 16lbs flourite
5 X 25lbs gravel


Congratulations on discovering Flourite. You will not be disappointed. I
have five bags in my tank, nothing else. Advice: Return the gravel, add
one more bag of flourite, you'll have over two inches throughout even with
a slight back to front slope.


1 X CO2 from Nutrafin


This is completely inadequate. This product is rated for a 10-20 gallon
tank. Your choices are to buy four of them, and spend your whole life
refilling them, or go with pressurized CO2. Nutrifin and DIY CO2 work
great for smaller tanks. Folks with 30-40 gallon tanks often run two,
2-liter bottles in parallel with good results. But over 40 gallons, forget
it. Sorry.

Pressurized CO2 will cost about $100-150 to start, which you will recover
on savings in sugar and yeast in 18-24 months for a big tank.

B. I need a filter. So far I found out that a canister filter is
probably my best option. And by the looks of things a Fluval or an
ehiem would be a good choice. Anyone recommend the Ehiem with the
heater integrated with it? I have seen a couple of other filter such
as the internal ProAquatics filter which comes with a heater inside
it. I dont think I would want a filter that hangs on the outside
because I want the tank pretty close to the wall. I am a bargain
hunter so recommendations on where to buy it cheap would be FANTASTIC.


Price is no object advice: Eheim, no heater. Buy two, 150 watt Ebo Jaeger
heaters and hide them on opposite sides of the tank.

Bargain hunter advice: Choose one of the cheaper filter brands (Filstar,
Fluval, etc). Same heater advice. Fluval is quite well regarded.


Now, here's what you didn't ask:

LIGHTING: Your tank is 24 inches deep. You and I need MUCH more light than
someone with a 72 gallon 18" deep tank. I have been using 4x55W AHS
compact flourescents and NO COVER. This is barely sufficient light if you
replace the bulbs after 12-18 months. http://www.ahsupply.com

TEST KITS: You cannot survive without a nitrate test kit, a KH test kit,
and a pH test kit. Nitrate because unlike a fish-only tank, plants will
probably eat all the nitrate in your tank and you will have to add it. KH
and pH because they tell you what is going on with your CO2. Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals and Seachem are popular brands.

NUTRIENTS: Your plants will need nutrients. Start reading he

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/fert/e...st_index1.html

  #4  
Old October 21st 03, 03:43 AM
Keng
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Posts: n/a
Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

Hi Dave

Thanks for your reply to my post regarding my new tank set up. I was
just wondering if you could elaborate a little more on the following:-

1. Whats a pressurized CO2 and where can I find one of those?

2. With the lighting, I got the cover with two tubes and the reflector
strip. If this is insufficient, can the top still be retrofitted or
will 2 double tubes not fit in there?

In regards to your set up, how do you not have a cover? Do you have
suspended lights that hang over your tank?

Thanks in advance.

Keng
  #6  
Old October 22nd 03, 09:59 PM
Benthic
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Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

sounds perfect!! I have a Fluval but I hear eheims are great too.. plus if
you put your CO2 outlet in the filter intake then there is no need for a
reactor the canister does an awesome job of doing it for you.
Ben

"Keng" wrote in message
om...
Hello all

So I am new to all of this. I just moved to Buffalo NY last month and
I just purchased a 72 gal bow front and would like your suggestions on
filters for a plant tank. I read thru most of the messages right up to
'99 but kinda figured I would throw this question out again.

A. Firstly, since I am starting from scratch... here is what I have
bought so far

5 X 16lbs flourite
5 X 25lbs gravel

Is this enough? It hasnt been delivered yet so I guess I could always
change the ratio and amount. Opinions?

1 X CO2 from Nutrafin

B. I need a filter. So far I found out that a canister filter is
probably my best option. And by the looks of things a Fluval or an
ehiem would be a good choice. Anyone recommend the Ehiem with the
heater integrated with it? I have seen a couple of other filter such
as the internal ProAquatics filter which comes with a heater inside
it. I dont think I would want a filter that hangs on the outside
because I want the tank pretty close to the wall. I am a bargain
hunter so recommendations on where to buy it cheap would be FANTASTIC.

I think thats about it for the moment. Any opinions, suggestions or
information is greatly appreciated. Especially now. Thanks in advance.

Keng



  #7  
Old October 22nd 03, 09:59 PM
Benthic
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Posts: n/a
Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

BTW greeting from Rochester.... make sure to check out "the fish place" in
tonawanda there is also a cool store in Lockport


"Keng" wrote in message
om...
Hello all

So I am new to all of this. I just moved to Buffalo NY last month and
I just purchased a 72 gal bow front and would like your suggestions on
filters for a plant tank. I read thru most of the messages right up to
'99 but kinda figured I would throw this question out again.

A. Firstly, since I am starting from scratch... here is what I have
bought so far

5 X 16lbs flourite
5 X 25lbs gravel

Is this enough? It hasnt been delivered yet so I guess I could always
change the ratio and amount. Opinions?

1 X CO2 from Nutrafin

B. I need a filter. So far I found out that a canister filter is
probably my best option. And by the looks of things a Fluval or an
ehiem would be a good choice. Anyone recommend the Ehiem with the
heater integrated with it? I have seen a couple of other filter such
as the internal ProAquatics filter which comes with a heater inside
it. I dont think I would want a filter that hangs on the outside
because I want the tank pretty close to the wall. I am a bargain
hunter so recommendations on where to buy it cheap would be FANTASTIC.

I think thats about it for the moment. Any opinions, suggestions or
information is greatly appreciated. Especially now. Thanks in advance.

Keng



  #8  
Old October 24th 03, 12:38 AM
Dave Millman
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Posts: n/a
Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

Keng wrote:

Hi Dave

Thanks for your reply to my post regarding my new tank set up. I was
just wondering if you could elaborate a little more on the following:-

1. Whats a pressurized CO2 and where can I find one of those?


Pressurized CO2 uses a tank of CO2 that was designed for soda fountains,
welding, or other purposes, and injects that CO2 into the tank through a
regulator and needle valve. You can find information he

http://www.mindspring.com/~hanson101/aquaria_co2.html

http://www.dlink.org/aqua/CO2.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-booth-faq.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/



2. With the lighting, I got the cover with two tubes and the reflector
strip. If this is insufficient, can the top still be retrofitted or
will 2 double tubes not fit in there?


Sorry, I can't tell you that. You will have to measure everything and see.
I bought my kits from http://www.ahsupply.com

In regards to your set up, how do you not have a cover? Do you have
suspended lights that hang over your tank?


I do not use a glass or plastic cover over my tank. I have a hood, which
contains my lights, which sits on top of the tank frame. It covers about
half the surface area of the tank. The rest is open for feeding, filter
tubes, etc.


  #9  
Old October 29th 03, 08:21 PM
james
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Posts: n/a
Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

In article %[email protected],
Rick wrote:

the filter is a matter of choice. I'm running a Fluval 404 in my 77g.


I started with an impeller/reservoir/charcoal filter together with an
undergravel filter in a 55 gallon tank. I recently switched to a Fluval
304, but when I did, I turned off the undergravel filter, and almost
killed my fish because it seems they were starving for O2. I turned on
the UG and dropped an airstone in. I didn't consider that the fluval
filter was a completely closed system and doesn't aerate the water.

Fish are doing ok now but I don't think I've improved my tank much,
since I'm still running an UG filter, and I still have an annoyingly
loud pump. I do like the fluval, but I really want to get rid of this
pump. (Can you recommend an air pump that's truly quiet?) (Why do I
have to import O2 anyway?)


  #10  
Old October 30th 03, 01:05 AM
Dennis Fox
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Default Yet another Newbie and Filter Seeker

james wrote:
I started with an impeller/reservoir/charcoal filter together with an
undergravel filter in a 55 gallon tank. I recently switched to a Fluval
304, but when I did, I turned off the undergravel filter, and almost
killed my fish because it seems they were starving for O2. I turned on
the UG and dropped an airstone in. I didn't consider that the fluval
filter was a completely closed system and doesn't aerate the water.

Fish are doing ok now but I don't think I've improved my tank much,
since I'm still running an UG filter, and I still have an annoyingly
loud pump. I do like the fluval, but I really want to get rid of this
pump. (Can you recommend an air pump that's truly quiet?) (Why do I
have to import O2 anyway?)


Oxygen absorption in the water is a matter of water surface area and
surface movement. Your UGF has bubbles leaving it, which agitate the
surface ... that is how the oxygen is replenished in the water (not the
bubbles themselves, but the bubbles bursting and moving the surface).

Since I have never used one, I don't know whether the return on the
Fluval can be made to agitate the surface of the water ... you might try
that if it is possible.

ANOTHER factor in your fishes' reaction could be the following scenario:
If you installed the Fluval and turned off the UGF at essentially the
same time. Why? Because your biological filter was all in your gravel
and not at all in the Fluval at first. It would take several days for
the bacteria to populate the Fluval ... and even then you might want to
turn _down_ your UGF for several days in a row before turning it off
completely. Non- or under-functioning biological filter means rising
ammonia and/or nitrite levels, both of which are fatal to fish.

Finally, many people use a submersible power head on UGF instead of
airstones. Power heads are quiet, more efficient than airstones at
moving water through the UGF ... hence even better biological filter.
And the output of the power head can be set to agititate the surface for
good oxygen exchange.

Hope this helps,
Dennis

 




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