Alloy wheels and nut/bolt design

Hi all

Where alloy wheels have a tapered seat I commonly see these fastened
with nuts/bolts having seats of a different taper or even with the
rounded seats used on steel wheels!

Seems to me that if an engineer has designed a wheel with a particular
angle of taper there must have been equivalent tapered nut/bolt. For
example a standard tapered nut usually has a "steeper" taper than most
wheel seats resulting in contact only being made with the wheel for a
very small depth.

My Honda dealer even told me that when fitting alloy wheels they use
the standard steel wheel nut (with a rounded seat). This too contacts
the wheel over a very small area.

Doesn't anyone design a nut or bolt to match the seat of the wheel?
Otherwise I cannot see how (from an engineering point of view) it is
safe!

Thanks

Plato wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Where alloy wheels have a tapered seat I commonly see these fastened
> with nuts/bolts having seats of a different taper or even with the
> rounded seats used on steel wheels!
>
> Seems to me that if an engineer has designed a wheel with a particular
> angle of taper there must have been equivalent tapered nut/bolt. For
> example a standard tapered nut usually has a "steeper" taper than most
> wheel seats resulting in contact only being made with the wheel for a
> very small depth.
>
> My Honda dealer even told me that when fitting alloy wheels they use
> the standard steel wheel nut (with a rounded seat). This too contacts
> the wheel over a very small area.
>
> Doesn't anyone design a nut or bolt to match the seat of the wheel?
> Otherwise I cannot see how (from an engineering point of view) it is
> safe!
>
> Thanks

I'm guessing that you are trying to fit aftermarket wheels that use a
standard tapered seat lug on your Honda, if that is the case the right
thing to do would be to buy some aftermarket lug nuts with tapered
seats, and those should be available from any number of vendors
(McGard, Gorilla, etc.)

good luck,

nate

If the nut matched the taper exactly, then it could bottom out maybe.
If it bottoms out, then it isn't putting pressure on the rim any more
and the tire will come loose or snap the lugs off from play.

Just my $0.02,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Plato wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Where alloy wheels have a tapered seat I commonly see these fastened
> with nuts/bolts having seats of a different taper or even with the
> rounded seats used on steel wheels!
>
> Seems to me that if an engineer has designed a wheel with a particular
> angle of taper there must have been equivalent tapered nut/bolt. For
> example a standard tapered nut usually has a "steeper" taper than most
> wheel seats resulting in contact only being made with the wheel for a
> very small depth.
>
> My Honda dealer even told me that when fitting alloy wheels they use
> the standard steel wheel nut (with a rounded seat). This too contacts
> the wheel over a very small area.
>
> Doesn't anyone design a nut or bolt to match the seat of the wheel?
> Otherwise I cannot see how (from an engineering point of view) it is
> safe!
>
> Thanks

Hi

Thanks for your response. The wheels are Honda wheels and so far I
have not been able to find, nor find anyone who can explain where I can
get nuts to match the wheels!! - not even Honda. But I also raised it
as a general (engineering/safety) point. Perhaps there is a more
apprpriate group?

plato

N8N wrote:
> Plato wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > Where alloy wheels have a tapered seat I commonly see these fastened
> > with nuts/bolts having seats of a different taper or even with the
> > rounded seats used on steel wheels!
> >
> > Seems to me that if an engineer has designed a wheel with a particular
> > angle of taper there must have been equivalent tapered nut/bolt. For
> > example a standard tapered nut usually has a "steeper" taper than most
> > wheel seats resulting in contact only being made with the wheel for a
> > very small depth.
> >
> > My Honda dealer even told me that when fitting alloy wheels they use
> > the standard steel wheel nut (with a rounded seat). This too contacts
> > the wheel over a very small area.
> >
> > Doesn't anyone design a nut or bolt to match the seat of the wheel?
> > Otherwise I cannot see how (from an engineering point of view) it is
> > safe!
> >
> > Thanks
>
> I'm guessing that you are trying to fit aftermarket wheels that use a
> standard tapered seat lug on your Honda, if that is the case the right
> thing to do would be to buy some aftermarket lug nuts with tapered
> seats, and those should be available from any number of vendors
> (McGard, Gorilla, etc.)
>
> good luck,
>
> nate

Here's one option for conical seat (another name for tapered seat) lug
nuts for a Honda:

http://www.mcgard.com/search/default...avID=1&NavID=8

however, I am concerned that you say that these are factory wheels; is
it possible someone used the wrong lug nuts on them in the past and
mashed the seats tapered? Generally all factory wheels use the same
style lugs.

nate

Plato wrote:
> Hi
>
> Thanks for your response. The wheels are Honda wheels and so far I
> have not been able to find, nor find anyone who can explain where I can
> get nuts to match the wheels!! - not even Honda. But I also raised it
> as a general (engineering/safety) point. Perhaps there is a more
> apprpriate group?
>
> plato
>
> N8N wrote:
> > Plato wrote:
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > Where alloy wheels have a tapered seat I commonly see these fastened
> > > with nuts/bolts having seats of a different taper or even with the
> > > rounded seats used on steel wheels!
> > >
> > > Seems to me that if an engineer has designed a wheel with a particular
> > > angle of taper there must have been equivalent tapered nut/bolt. For
> > > example a standard tapered nut usually has a "steeper" taper than most
> > > wheel seats resulting in contact only being made with the wheel for a
> > > very small depth.
> > >
> > > My Honda dealer even told me that when fitting alloy wheels they use
> > > the standard steel wheel nut (with a rounded seat). This too contacts
> > > the wheel over a very small area.
> > >
> > > Doesn't anyone design a nut or bolt to match the seat of the wheel?
> > > Otherwise I cannot see how (from an engineering point of view) it is
> > > safe!
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > I'm guessing that you are trying to fit aftermarket wheels that use a
> > standard tapered seat lug on your Honda, if that is the case the right
> > thing to do would be to buy some aftermarket lug nuts with tapered
> > seats, and those should be available from any number of vendors
> > (McGard, Gorilla, etc.)
> >
> > good luck,
> >
> > nate

Hi

Thanks - it s a possibility but the condition of the seats suggest
that it is not.

So far I have not managed to sort this problem out!!

plato

N8N wrote:
> Here's one option for conical seat (another name for tapered seat) lug
> nuts for a Honda:
>
> http://www.mcgard.com/search/default...avID=1&NavID=8
>
> however, I am concerned that you say that these are factory wheels; is
> it possible someone used the wrong lug nuts on them in the past and
> mashed the seats tapered? Generally all factory wheels use the same
> style lugs.
>
> nate
>
> Plato wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks for your response. The wheels are Honda wheels and so far I
> > have not been able to find, nor find anyone who can explain where I can
> > get nuts to match the wheels!! - not even Honda. But I also raised it
> > as a general (engineering/safety) point. Perhaps there is a more
> > apprpriate group?
> >
> > plato
> >
> > N8N wrote:
> > > Plato wrote:
> > > > Hi all
> > > >
> > > > Where alloy wheels have a tapered seat I commonly see these fastened
> > > > with nuts/bolts having seats of a different taper or even with the
> > > > rounded seats used on steel wheels!
> > > >
> > > > Seems to me that if an engineer has designed a wheel with a particular
> > > > angle of taper there must have been equivalent tapered nut/bolt. For
> > > > example a standard tapered nut usually has a "steeper" taper than most
> > > > wheel seats resulting in contact only being made with the wheel for a
> > > > very small depth.
> > > >
> > > > My Honda dealer even told me that when fitting alloy wheels they use
> > > > the standard steel wheel nut (with a rounded seat). This too contacts
> > > > the wheel over a very small area.
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't anyone design a nut or bolt to match the seat of the wheel?
> > > > Otherwise I cannot see how (from an engineering point of view) it is
> > > > safe!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > >
> > > I'm guessing that you are trying to fit aftermarket wheels that use a
> > > standard tapered seat lug on your Honda, if that is the case the right
> > > thing to do would be to buy some aftermarket lug nuts with tapered
> > > seats, and those should be available from any number of vendors
> > > (McGard, Gorilla, etc.)
> > >
> > > good luck,
> > >
> > > nate