gearbox is jamming - nissan micra 1.2 '89

carl wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I forgot to say, that the car sometimes is moving slightly forward -
> this morning it moved backwards though - when the engine is running
> stationary. Yet it does not do this when at working temperature, then
> it just sits, clutch depressed and put into a gear. Just additional
> information, but it seems not too revealing.

That makes almost no sense at all but what I *think* you're saying is that
with the engine idling, the car will creep forward when in gear but with the
clutch depressed. If that's what you meant to say, then clearly the clutch
is dragging which would explain your gear engagement problem.

If it's creeping forward with the gearbox in neutral then I've no idea
what's wrong.

Tim

(Top posting corrected)

>> I'm sorry to post that the gearbox of my nissan micra is functioning
>> alarmingly difficultly.
>>
>> It seems something is wrong with 3rd gear, but only when passing from 3rd
> to
>> neutral or to all other gears ( I didn't try from 3rd to reverse ;-) but
> in
>> that case it wouldn't come as a surprise ).
>>
>> It takes a lot of force to make the movement exiting from 3rd gear, and
>> it feels like the oil behaves like rubber liquid, but really only with
>> the
> 3rd
>> gear, I don't understand.
>>
>> It started to behave like this only last week, and the car has some
> 180.000
>> kms on the clock.
>>
>> When I try to make this movement when the engine is not running ( or at
>> least when I'm not driving ), then sometimes the movement is normal and
> free
>> of friction.

> Hello again,
>
> I forgot to say, that the car sometimes is moving slightly forward - this
> morning it moved backwards though - when the engine is running stationary.
> Yet it does not do this when at working temperature, then it just sits,
> clutch depressed and put into a gear. Just additional information, but it
> seems not too revealing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Carl

Carl, when you reply to a post please do so *under* what is already there.
Top-posting is generally considered a bad thing on usenet because it makes
it so hard to follow a thread.

The information you have posted appears to contradict itself. To see whether
you have a problem with the clutch dragging, when you select first gear and
pull away how far does the clutch pedal move before the car starts? If it
only moves a small amount from the floor, your problem may be with the
clutch, or the adjustment of whatever operates it.

I discounted this as a likely cause of your problem because clutch drag
should make changing difficult between all the gears, and you specifically
said the problem was only with third gear.

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

> > I forgot to say, that the car sometimes is moving slightly forward -
this
> > morning it moved backwards though - when the engine is running
stationary.
> > Yet it does not do this when at working temperature, then it just sits,
> > clutch depressed and put into a gear. Just additional information, but
it
> > seems not too revealing.
> The information you have posted appears to contradict itself. To see
whether
> you have a problem with the clutch dragging, when you select first gear
and
> pull away how far does the clutch pedal move before the car starts? If it
> only moves a small amount from the floor, your problem may be with the
> clutch, or the adjustment of whatever operates it.
>
> I discounted this as a likely cause of your problem because clutch drag
> should make changing difficult between all the gears, and you specifically
> said the problem was only with third gear.
>
Hi Chris and all,

Thanks for the advice on top posting. I only sinned a couple of times in
ths thread...

As for my gear problem, I got some non-usenet advice, and there are several
other explanations.
There could be jamming in the gearshift levers in the gearbox, that is, they
are safed by some pins in the box, making it impossible to shift in two
gears at the time. These could get worn and cause problems. Otherwise there
could be explanations in the wear of the external gearshift mechanisms. It
is hard to find any indication of the latter.

I analysed a bit further while driving. When the vehicle is not moving,
there is no problem whatsoever to get out of 3rd gear. It is only getting
out of the 3rd gear when the car is moving that is causing trouble. Can this
help with the troubleshooting ?

Regards and thanks again,

Carl

On May 26, 12:59 pm, "carl" > wrote:
> > > I forgot to say, that the car sometimes is moving slightly forward -
> this
> > > morning it moved backwards though - when the engine is running
> stationary.
> > > Yet it does not do this when at working temperature, then it just sits,
> > > clutch depressed and put into a gear. Just additional information, but
> it
> > > seems not too revealing.
> > The information you have posted appears to contradict itself. To see
> whether
> > you have a problem with the clutch dragging, when you select first gear
> and
> > pull away how far does the clutch pedal move before the car starts? If it
> > only moves a small amount from the floor, your problem may be with the
> > clutch, or the adjustment of whatever operates it.
>
> > I discounted this as a likely cause of your problem because clutch drag
> > should make changing difficult between all the gears, and you specifically
> > said the problem was only with third gear.
>
> Hi Chris and all,
>
> Thanks for the advice on top posting. I only sinned a couple of times in
> ths thread...
>
> As for my gear problem, I got some non-usenet advice, and there are several
> other explanations.
> There could be jamming in the gearshift levers in the gearbox, that is, they
> are safed by some pins in the box, making it impossible to shift in two
> gears at the time. These could get worn and cause problems. Otherwise there
> could be explanations in the wear of the external gearshift mechanisms. It
> is hard to find any indication of the latter.
>
> I analysed a bit further while driving. When the vehicle is not moving,
> there is no problem whatsoever to get out of 3rd gear. It is only getting
> out of the 3rd gear when the car is moving that is causing trouble. Can this
> help with the troubleshooting ?
>
> Regards and thanks again,
>
> Carl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi,
I have had exactly the same problem with my Micra. However it has now
got to the point that it is jammed in neutral.

I will be seeing a gearbox specialist friend of mine sometime this
week. I will report back to this group and let you know what he finds.

I hope for both of us that it is not too expensive to fix!

Regards,
Pantagoon

On May 28, 12:17 pm, Pantagoon > wrote:
> On May 26, 12:59 pm, "carl" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > I forgot to say, that the car sometimes is moving slightly forward -
> > this
> > > > morning it moved backwards though - when the engine is running
> > stationary.
> > > > Yet it does not do this when at working temperature, then it just sits,
> > > > clutch depressed and put into a gear. Just additional information, but
> > it
> > > > seems not too revealing.
> > > The information you have posted appears to contradict itself. To see
> > whether
> > > you have a problem with the clutch dragging, when you select first gear
> > and
> > > pull away how far does the clutch pedal move before the car starts? If it
> > > only moves a small amount from the floor, your problem may be with the
> > > clutch, or the adjustment of whatever operates it.
>
> > > I discounted this as a likely cause of your problem because clutch drag
> > > should make changing difficult between all the gears, and you specifically
> > > said the problem was only with third gear.
>
> > Hi Chris and all,
>
> > Thanks for the advice on top posting. I only sinned a couple of times in
> > ths thread...
>
> > As for my gear problem, I got some non-usenet advice, and there are several
> > other explanations.
> > There could be jamming in the gearshift levers in the gearbox, that is, they
> > are safed by some pins in the box, making it impossible to shift in two
> > gears at the time. These could get worn and cause problems. Otherwise there
> > could be explanations in the wear of the external gearshift mechanisms. It
> > is hard to find any indication of the latter.
>
> > I analysed a bit further while driving. When the vehicle is not moving,
> > there is no problem whatsoever to get out of 3rd gear. It is only getting
> > out of the 3rd gear when the car is moving that is causing trouble. Can this
> > help with the troubleshooting ?
>
> > Regards and thanks again,
>
> > Carl- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi,
> I have had exactly the same problem with my Micra. However it has now
> got to the point that it is jammed in neutral.
>
> I will be seeing a gearbox specialist friend of mine sometime this
> week. I will report back to this group and let you know what he finds.
>
> I hope for both of us that it is not too expensive to fix!
>
> Regards,
> Pantagoon- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi again,

After a bit of a web search I have found that this is a very common
Micra problem and it is caused by a cracked 3/4 syncro hub.

http://www.howtomendit.com/answers.php?id=67484

Hope this helps a bit.

Pantagoon

> Hi,
> I have had exactly the same problem with my Micra. However it has now
> got to the point that it is jammed in neutral.
>
> I will be seeing a gearbox specialist friend of mine sometime this
> week. I will report back to this group and let you know what he finds.
>
> I hope for both of us that it is not too expensive to fix!
>
Hi Pantagoon,

and thanks for the information. My worst fears confirmed ...
At least if you are also having no problems with getting INTO 3rd gear ?

I am looking forward for your next posting !

Thanks again

carl

On May 28, 3:29 pm, "carl" > wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I have had exactly the same problem with my Micra. However it has now
> > got to the point that it is jammed in neutral.
>
> > I will be seeing a gearbox specialist friend of mine sometime this
> > week. I will report back to this group and let you know what he finds.
>
> > I hope for both of us that it is not too expensive to fix!
>
> Hi Pantagoon,
>
> and thanks for the information. My worst fears confirmed ...
> At least if you are also having no problems with getting INTO 3rd gear ?
>
> I am looking forward for your next posting !
>
> Thanks again
>
> carl

Hi Carl,

Initially it was only a problem getting out of third - the 3/4 synchro
hub eases that transition. Eventually though, it started to be a
problem to get out of any gear. I should have had the box looked at
before it got to that point! I think the hub has broken completely and
the loose bits are now jamming everything up.

Regards,
Alan

> > Hi Pantagoon,
> >
> > and thanks for the information. My worst fears confirmed ...
> > At least if you are also having no problems with getting INTO 3rd gear ?
> >
> > I am looking forward for your next posting !
> >
> > Thanks again
> >
> > carl
>
> Hi Carl,
>
> Initially it was only a problem getting out of third - the 3/4 synchro
> hub eases that transition. Eventually though, it started to be a
> problem to get out of any gear. I should have had the box looked at
> before it got to that point! I think the hub has broken completely and
> the loose bits are now jamming everything up.
>
> Regards,
> Alan

Hi Alan,

Thanks for your comment. Since a while now, I am just using 1st, 2nd and 4th
gear, except when I know I will have to stop again after a short distance,
then I still use 3rd
gear. As you said, there is no problem when the car has stopped moving, to
shift out of 3rd.

I hope this will be enough to avoid problems. You said you will contact a
gearbox specialist. Let me know please, what the outcome is.

What exactly does '"3/4 synchro hub is cracked mean" ? Is it broken into
pieces ? I don't know what exactly the synchro hub is, and where this damage
will
be located..

Thanks again,

Carl

> > I forgot to say, that the car sometimes is moving slightly forward -
> > this morning it moved backwards though - when the engine is running
> > stationary. Yet it does not do this when at working temperature, then
> > it just sits, clutch depressed and put into a gear. Just additional
> > information, but it seems not too revealing.
>
> That makes almost no sense at all but what I *think* you're saying is that
> with the engine idling, the car will creep forward when in gear but with
the
> clutch depressed. If that's what you meant to say, then clearly the
clutch
> is dragging which would explain your gear engagement problem.
>
> If it's creeping forward with the gearbox in neutral then I've no idea
> what's wrong.
>
> Tim

Hello Tim,

What you're saying is what I meant. Thanks. The clutch is behaving normally
though, I just had some advice saying it could be a serious synchro problem
in the gearbox itself.

Cheers,

Carl

On May 29, 9:09 am, "carl" > wrote:
> > > Hi Pantagoon,
>
> > > and thanks for the information. My worst fears confirmed ...
> > > At least if you are also having no problems with getting INTO 3rd gear ?
>
> > > I am looking forward for your next posting !
>
> > > Thanks again
>
> > > carl
>
> > Hi Carl,
>
> > Initially it was only a problem getting out of third - the 3/4 synchro
> > hub eases that transition. Eventually though, it started to be a
> > problem to get out of any gear. I should have had the box looked at
> > before it got to that point! I think the hub has broken completely and
> > the loose bits are now jamming everything up.
>
> > Regards,
> > Alan
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Thanks for your comment. Since a while now, I am just using 1st, 2nd and 4th
> gear, except when I know I will have to stop again after a short distance,
> then I still use 3rd
> gear. As you said, there is no problem when the car has stopped moving, to
> shift out of 3rd.
>
> I hope this will be enough to avoid problems. You said you will contact a
> gearbox specialist. Let me know please, what the outcome is.
>
> What exactly does '"3/4 synchro hub is cracked mean" ? Is it broken into
> pieces ? I don't know what exactly the synchro hub is, and where this damage
> will
> be located..
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Carl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi,

The synchro hub is a specially shaped toothed ring that fits onto the
main drive shaft in the gearbox. 3/4 means that it is the ring used
when moving from 3rd to 4th gear. At the moment it sounds as if yours
is just cracked and not broken into pieces as mine is.

I must say that I am no expert when it comes to these things - the
information I am getting is from my trusty Haynes Service Manual.

If you want to fix the problem yourself, it will mean stripping the
box completely and replacing the ring - something I wouldn't
contemplate doing myself. My friendly expert is coming for the car on
Wednesday morning. I'll ask him some more questions. It may be quicker
and cheaper to get a secondhand box from a breakers and fit it. This
would be much easier than stripping the box.

Regards,
Alan