Traction

I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
hunting, camping and fishing in all kinds of weather. I have also done
Moab Jeep Safari three times and have been able to negotiate 3 1/2
rated trails without getting hung-up. I try to drive with a light
foot. Where I live winter with icey roads can happen anytime between
Sep 1 and May 31. I have recently been considering some sort of locker
or limited slip. As I see it, I can do a rear ARB with all the bells
and whistles or a front and rear limited slip for about the same price.
These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small town
so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What are the
advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with the limited
slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I talked with at
a Six States Distributors recomended an electric locker. From what I
have read about these is that they function as a limited slip until
activated, but they seem cheaper than an ARB. Any help and advice is
appreciated.

Adding a locker to the POS cheap ass rear axle you have can over stress it
to the point of destruction, even with a four banger. If you like to
fishtail a lot on icy roads, then a limited slip on the back only might not
be a bad idea. If you like to go sideways, put one on the front too.

If you seriously want to increase the off road ability of your Jeep, then an
axle upgrade sounds like a good idea.

Earle

"Scotty" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
> hunting, camping and fishing in all kinds of weather. I have also done
> Moab Jeep Safari three times and have been able to negotiate 3 1/2
> rated trails without getting hung-up. I try to drive with a light
> foot. Where I live winter with icey roads can happen anytime between
> Sep 1 and May 31. I have recently been considering some sort of locker
> or limited slip. As I see it, I can do a rear ARB with all the bells
> and whistles or a front and rear limited slip for about the same price.
> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small town
> so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What are the
> advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with the limited
> slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I talked with at
> a Six States Distributors recomended an electric locker. From what I
> have read about these is that they function as a limited slip until
> activated, but they seem cheaper than an ARB. Any help and advice is
> appreciated.
>

I really prefer my open diffs for the snow. I have a CJ7 as my daily
driver up here in Canada. With my 33x9.5" muds in snow, a TJ locked
front and rear can more or less keep up if they don't slide sideways off
the trail....

If I went for a locker I would go electric or cable only. As it is, I
use 2 wheel drive at lots of intersections because 4x4 can end up
plowing the front wheels straight when turning left at intersections.
With a locker, that kind of slushy turn would be impossible.

I have been 'stuck' on slushy ice with one front wheel and one back
wheel spinning away and the boys going for the straps and I have hit the
brake pedal hard while goosing the gas to get all 4 wheels tossing
rooster tails and away I go.

This method loads up the spinning wheel until the torque equals the
break away torque needed for the tire not spinning and gets the diff to
lock up both axles. The owners manual says you can use the emergency
brake to do this, but I have better luck with the brake pedal.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Scotty wrote:
>
> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
> hunting, camping and fishing in all kinds of weather. I have also done
> Moab Jeep Safari three times and have been able to negotiate 3 1/2
> rated trails without getting hung-up. I try to drive with a light
> foot. Where I live winter with icey roads can happen anytime between
> Sep 1 and May 31. I have recently been considering some sort of locker
> or limited slip. As I see it, I can do a rear ARB with all the bells
> and whistles or a front and rear limited slip for about the same price.
> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small town
> so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What are the
> advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with the limited
> slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I talked with at
> a Six States Distributors recomended an electric locker. From what I
> have read about these is that they function as a limited slip until
> activated, but they seem cheaper than an ARB. Any help and advice is
> appreciated.

"Scotty" > writes:

> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
>
> [..snipped..]
>
> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small
> town so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What
> are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with
> the limited slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I
>
> [..snipped..]

I have a setup similar to yours except that I have a Dana 44 with
limited-slip differential on the rear axle. My TJ is a 2004. I go
off-roading nearly every weekend in Southern California (where I
live). Here is the sum of my experience: Excellent tires and excellent
articulation will get you very far. Practice will take you farther
still, and a good line through/over an obstacle gets easier to spot
with experience.

I regularly ride "Black Diamond" (3 on a scale from 1 to 3 -- 3 being
toughest) trails here. I've not gotten stuck but have had to make a
second try on a couple of occasions. The limited-slip diff is nice to
have and it is my opinion, based on my experience and from observing
others, that a full lockers will offer an advantage ONLY at the margin
and in rare circumstances vs. limited-slip.

I prefer narrow tires and the lowest center of gravity possible (the
math seems natural to me). The only change I am considering is the
addition of an OX locker (engaged manually with a cable, not air or
electicity) to the front axle (which is open now), though I doubt I'll
ever use it. I'd invest in this order: tires (I have Mickey Thompson
Baja Claw radials and LOVE them), articulation, hi-lift jack, winch,
and then limited-slip differential(s).
--

A limited slip is garbage off road. It doesn't have the holding power it
needs to really get the traction you need in extreme 4-wheeling. I wheeled
my 89 YJ open front and rear on 33's but I had to really rev the engine and
rock over a lot of obstacles that I could have crawled up if I had been
locked.

To the OP- Look into a Lockright locker in the rear. It locks under power,
unlocks when you release the gas pedal. Its cheap, $250. Why get the cheap
one? When your D35 breaks, you won't be out too much $$ so you can upgrade
to a D44/ Ford 8.8. No, there is nothing you can do to keeep your D35 from
breaking. Taking it easy will extend it's life, but a locked D35 is a
ticking time bomb.

Lastly, unless it was special order or all ready swapped out, you have the
D35.

HTH,

Carl


"Daniel Bibbens" > wrote in message
...
> "Scotty" > writes:
>
>> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
>> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
>>
>> [..snipped..]
>>
>> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small
>> town so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What
>> are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with
>> the limited slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I
>>
>> [..snipped..]
>
> I have a setup similar to yours except that I have a Dana 44 with
> limited-slip differential on the rear axle. My TJ is a 2004. I go
> off-roading nearly every weekend in Southern California (where I
> live). Here is the sum of my experience: Excellent tires and excellent
> articulation will get you very far. Practice will take you farther
> still, and a good line through/over an obstacle gets easier to spot
> with experience.
>
> I regularly ride "Black Diamond" (3 on a scale from 1 to 3 -- 3 being
> toughest) trails here. I've not gotten stuck but have had to make a
> second try on a couple of occasions. The limited-slip diff is nice to
> have and it is my opinion, based on my experience and from observing
> others, that a full lockers will offer an advantage ONLY at the margin
> and in rare circumstances vs. limited-slip.
>
> I prefer narrow tires and the lowest center of gravity possible (the
> math seems natural to me). The only change I am considering is the
> addition of an OX locker (engaged manually with a cable, not air or
> electicity) to the front axle (which is open now), though I doubt I'll
> ever use it. I'd invest in this order: tires (I have Mickey Thompson
> Baja Claw radials and LOVE them), articulation, hi-lift jack, winch,
> and then limited-slip differential(s).
> --

It does have the D35.

Carl wrote:
> A limited slip is garbage off road. It doesn't have the holding power it
> needs to really get the traction you need in extreme 4-wheeling. I wheeled
> my 89 YJ open front and rear on 33's but I had to really rev the engine and
> rock over a lot of obstacles that I could have crawled up if I had been
> locked.
>
> To the OP- Look into a Lockright locker in the rear. It locks under power,
> unlocks when you release the gas pedal. Its cheap, $250. Why get the cheap
> one? When your D35 breaks, you won't be out too much $$ so you can upgrade
> to a D44/ Ford 8.8. No, there is nothing you can do to keeep your D35 from
> breaking. Taking it easy will extend it's life, but a locked D35 is a
> ticking time bomb.
>
> Lastly, unless it was special order or all ready swapped out, you have the
> D35.
>
> HTH,
>
> Carl
>
>
> "Daniel Bibbens" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Scotty" > writes:
> >
> >> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
> >> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
> >>
> >> [..snipped..]
> >>
> >> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small
> >> town so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What
> >> are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with
> >> the limited slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I
> >>
> >> [..snipped..]
> >
> > I have a setup similar to yours except that I have a Dana 44 with
> > limited-slip differential on the rear axle. My TJ is a 2004. I go
> > off-roading nearly every weekend in Southern California (where I
> > live). Here is the sum of my experience: Excellent tires and excellent
> > articulation will get you very far. Practice will take you farther
> > still, and a good line through/over an obstacle gets easier to spot
> > with experience.
> >
> > I regularly ride "Black Diamond" (3 on a scale from 1 to 3 -- 3 being
> > toughest) trails here. I've not gotten stuck but have had to make a
> > second try on a couple of occasions. The limited-slip diff is nice to
> > have and it is my opinion, based on my experience and from observing
> > others, that a full lockers will offer an advantage ONLY at the margin
> > and in rare circumstances vs. limited-slip.
> >
> > I prefer narrow tires and the lowest center of gravity possible (the
> > math seems natural to me). The only change I am considering is the
> > addition of an OX locker (engaged manually with a cable, not air or
> > electicity) to the front axle (which is open now), though I doubt I'll
> > ever use it. I'd invest in this order: tires (I have Mickey Thompson
> > Baja Claw radials and LOVE them), articulation, hi-lift jack, winch,
> > and then limited-slip differential(s).
> > --

I learned the brake thing "back in the day" when the Olds Toronado was
revolutionary with front wheel drive and everything else had rear wheel
drive and still use it today. Thanks for the input.

Mike Romain wrote:
> I really prefer my open diffs for the snow. I have a CJ7 as my daily
> driver up here in Canada. With my 33x9.5" muds in snow, a TJ locked
> front and rear can more or less keep up if they don't slide sideways off
> the trail....
>
> If I went for a locker I would go electric or cable only. As it is, I
> use 2 wheel drive at lots of intersections because 4x4 can end up
> plowing the front wheels straight when turning left at intersections.
> With a locker, that kind of slushy turn would be impossible.
>
> I have been 'stuck' on slushy ice with one front wheel and one back
> wheel spinning away and the boys going for the straps and I have hit the
> brake pedal hard while goosing the gas to get all 4 wheels tossing
> rooster tails and away I go.
>
> This method loads up the spinning wheel until the torque equals the
> break away torque needed for the tire not spinning and gets the diff to
> lock up both axles. The owners manual says you can use the emergency
> brake to do this, but I have better luck with the brake pedal.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Scotty wrote:
> >
> > I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
> > swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
> > hunting, camping and fishing in all kinds of weather. I have also done
> > Moab Jeep Safari three times and have been able to negotiate 3 1/2
> > rated trails without getting hung-up. I try to drive with a light
> > foot. Where I live winter with icey roads can happen anytime between
> > Sep 1 and May 31. I have recently been considering some sort of locker
> > or limited slip. As I see it, I can do a rear ARB with all the bells
> > and whistles or a front and rear limited slip for about the same price.
> > These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small town
> > so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What are the
> > advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with the limited
> > slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I talked with at
> > a Six States Distributors recomended an electric locker. From what I
> > have read about these is that they function as a limited slip until
> > activated, but they seem cheaper than an ARB. Any help and advice is
> > appreciated.

Be sure and take a camera with you so you may add a broken picture
to: http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


Scotty wrote:
>
> It does have the D35.

He might do okay with the lockright or the no-slip (both by Richmond) as
long as he stays with 31s and keeps out of the rocks.

If you watch all Bill's videos and look at all the pix you will come to the
conclusion that most of the guys pictured were trying to break their axles
and were excited when they did.

"Scotty" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> It does have the D35.
>
> Carl wrote:
>> A limited slip is garbage off road. It doesn't have the holding power it
>> needs to really get the traction you need in extreme 4-wheeling. I
>> wheeled
>> my 89 YJ open front and rear on 33's but I had to really rev the engine
>> and
>> rock over a lot of obstacles that I could have crawled up if I had been
>> locked.
>>
>> To the OP- Look into a Lockright locker in the rear. It locks under
>> power,
>> unlocks when you release the gas pedal. Its cheap, $250. Why get the
>> cheap
>> one? When your D35 breaks, you won't be out too much $$ so you can
>> upgrade
>> to a D44/ Ford 8.8. No, there is nothing you can do to keeep your D35
>> from
>> breaking. Taking it easy will extend it's life, but a locked D35 is a
>> ticking time bomb.
>>
>> Lastly, unless it was special order or all ready swapped out, you have
>> the
>> D35.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> "Daniel Bibbens" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > "Scotty" > writes:
>> >
>> >> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
>> >> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
>> >>
>> >> [..snipped..]
>> >>
>> >> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small
>> >> town so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What
>> >> are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with
>> >> the limited slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I
>> >>
>> >> [..snipped..]
>> >
>> > I have a setup similar to yours except that I have a Dana 44 with
>> > limited-slip differential on the rear axle. My TJ is a 2004. I go
>> > off-roading nearly every weekend in Southern California (where I
>> > live). Here is the sum of my experience: Excellent tires and excellent
>> > articulation will get you very far. Practice will take you farther
>> > still, and a good line through/over an obstacle gets easier to spot
>> > with experience.
>> >
>> > I regularly ride "Black Diamond" (3 on a scale from 1 to 3 -- 3 being
>> > toughest) trails here. I've not gotten stuck but have had to make a
>> > second try on a couple of occasions. The limited-slip diff is nice to
>> > have and it is my opinion, based on my experience and from observing
>> > others, that a full lockers will offer an advantage ONLY at the margin
>> > and in rare circumstances vs. limited-slip.
>> >
>> > I prefer narrow tires and the lowest center of gravity possible (the
>> > math seems natural to me). The only change I am considering is the
>> > addition of an OX locker (engaged manually with a cable, not air or
>> > electicity) to the front axle (which is open now), though I doubt I'll
>> > ever use it. I'd invest in this order: tires (I have Mickey Thompson
>> > Baja Claw radials and LOVE them), articulation, hi-lift jack, winch,
>> > and then limited-slip differential(s).
>> > --
>

A Lock Rite is a light weight locker but it is still a locker. A Trak-Lok
is what I recommend for the D-35, but you are still going to go sideways.

Earle

"billy ray" > wrote in message
...
> He might do okay with the lockright or the no-slip (both by Richmond) as
> long as he stays with 31s and keeps out of the rocks.
>
> If you watch all Bill's videos and look at all the pix you will come to
the
> conclusion that most of the guys pictured were trying to break their axles
> and were excited when they did.
>
> "Scotty" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > It does have the D35.
> >
> > Carl wrote:
> >> A limited slip is garbage off road. It doesn't have the holding power
it
> >> needs to really get the traction you need in extreme 4-wheeling. I
> >> wheeled
> >> my 89 YJ open front and rear on 33's but I had to really rev the engine
> >> and
> >> rock over a lot of obstacles that I could have crawled up if I had been
> >> locked.
> >>
> >> To the OP- Look into a Lockright locker in the rear. It locks under
> >> power,
> >> unlocks when you release the gas pedal. Its cheap, $250. Why get the
> >> cheap
> >> one? When your D35 breaks, you won't be out too much $$ so you can
> >> upgrade
> >> to a D44/ Ford 8.8. No, there is nothing you can do to keeep your D35
> >> from
> >> breaking. Taking it easy will extend it's life, but a locked D35 is a
> >> ticking time bomb.
> >>
> >> Lastly, unless it was special order or all ready swapped out, you have
> >> the
> >> D35.
> >>
> >> HTH,
> >>
> >> Carl
> >>
> >>
> >> "Daniel Bibbens" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > "Scotty" > writes:
> >> >
> >> >> I drive a 1997 TJ, 4 banger, 5 speed, 2 1/2" lift, 31" tires, front
> >> >> swaybar disconnects, otherwise stock. I drive two-track roads for
> >> >>
> >> >> [..snipped..]
> >> >>
> >> >> These things are new to me, and I am the only Jeeper in my small
> >> >> town so I have no one to turn to for real life experiences. What
> >> >> are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Will I be satisfied with
> >> >> the limited slip as I try new and maybe tougher trails? A person I
> >> >>
> >> >> [..snipped..]
> >> >
> >> > I have a setup similar to yours except that I have a Dana 44 with
> >> > limited-slip differential on the rear axle. My TJ is a 2004. I go
> >> > off-roading nearly every weekend in Southern California (where I
> >> > live). Here is the sum of my experience: Excellent tires and
excellent
> >> > articulation will get you very far. Practice will take you farther
> >> > still, and a good line through/over an obstacle gets easier to spot
> >> > with experience.
> >> >
> >> > I regularly ride "Black Diamond" (3 on a scale from 1 to 3 -- 3 being
> >> > toughest) trails here. I've not gotten stuck but have had to make a
> >> > second try on a couple of occasions. The limited-slip diff is nice to
> >> > have and it is my opinion, based on my experience and from observing
> >> > others, that a full lockers will offer an advantage ONLY at the
margin
> >> > and in rare circumstances vs. limited-slip.
> >> >
> >> > I prefer narrow tires and the lowest center of gravity possible (the
> >> > math seems natural to me). The only change I am considering is the
> >> > addition of an OX locker (engaged manually with a cable, not air or
> >> > electicity) to the front axle (which is open now), though I doubt
I'll
> >> > ever use it. I'd invest in this order: tires (I have Mickey Thompson
> >> > Baja Claw radials and LOVE them), articulation, hi-lift jack, winch,
> >> > and then limited-slip differential(s).
> >> > --
> >
>
>