Why Do Saturns Suck... (Dear confused ranter)

In article >,
says...
> I liked my Saturn better this morning than this afternoon... When the
> thing played FORD! I've never seen anything like this before on any
> vehicle I've ever had over the years since the early 70's.
>
> I've had cars play dead before, but not with the cause this one had.
>
> This 2000 SL1 is the first vehicle I can recall ever having a side
> mount battery terminal battery and it will be the last one if I have
> any choices at all in the next vehicles I get. I've had top mount
> terminals work loose and have poor connections.
>
> Once I figured out what the problem was, after thinking it was a short
> that had drained the battery, because sometimes the lights on the dash
> would flicker on when the problem first materialized as I turned the
> ignition key, I was under the hood poking things checking fuses and
> uttering pleasentries as I went. I tug at the terminal cables to see
> if they were loose and the red side pops off the battery ! Beautiful
> ! Dead Saturn ! AKA F.O.R.D. !
>
> The only "luck" in any of it is that the terminal went south in the
> parking lot of a video store that has a "Advanced Automotive" parts
> shop across the street...and I happen to have a took kit with enough
> odd sized items in it to get the damned connectors freed.
>
> I used a Safeway shopping cart to take the leaking battery in a
> cardboard box I fished out of a nearby pile over to the parts store.
> $57.66 later I'm back in business except I need to douche out the
> engine compartment with baking soda and water to neutralize the
> battery juice that's leaked out into the plastic tray under the
> battery...and who knows where else.
>
> Before heading to the Autoparts store I foolishly went to an even
> closer Sonoco gas station (just the other side of the video store
> parking lot) and got quoted a rip off $89 plus tax and "installation"
> for a battery from them - and the nub even had the balls to tell me
> the car would have to be brought in to his repair bay to get the
> battery put in...to which I replied if the car could move I'd not have
> bothered him... Off to the part store ! What a prick...or idiot !
>
> May the Saturn god be appeased and keep this one rolling a long time
> before it next decides to play FORD !
>

Your a F$%@ing IDIOT! Boohooo side mounted battery post! Gee yeah that
hasnt been the NORM for the past 2 decades! Oh and by the way Saturn
doesnt make batteries. Next time you want to bitch about a battery email
Exide or shove it up your a$$ so we dont have to hear your UNRELATED BS
RANTINGS.

Hey I know! Lets blame car manufacturers when a piece of road debris
shreds our tire! Lets blame our car manufacturers when a tree falls on
our car!

moron...

In article >,
Blah blah > wrote:

> Your a F$%@ing IDIOT! Boohooo side mounted battery post! Gee yeah that
> hasnt been the NORM for the past 2 decades!

And the battery on the Saturn is easy to undo. It's a standard 8mm
bolt. I think you need a 10 to get the cover/strap thing off, though.

Anyway, I found after a few batteries that replacing the bolts isn't to
bad an idea, and they're easy to get anyway. Better than dealing with a
chewed up one.

Um, heeres some more "good news" for ya. Saturn doesnt make the batteries.
If it was the oem battery it is an AC Delco which I agree sux. They leak
like sivs. I just replaced my leaky battery. Replace it with a Diehard or an
Optima and you are all set. The old Delcos in the 1st gens were good, Delco
has dropped the ball on quality since 2000.
marx404

And again you still dont get it. Gee yeah a nearly 5 year old battery
fails...SUPRISE! You better start catching up on car care knowledge
before you aimlessly rant and missplace blame. If you came in here
asking, why did my battery post fail, or why are the post mounted on the
side instead of being another asshole venting flames maybe just maybe
someone would of responded more "POLITELY" and you might have learn
something from it. But if you want to be ignorant take it someplace
else.

In article >,
says...
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:07:51 GMT, Blah blah > wrote:
>
> Sorry to burst your bubble you puke - the battery was Delco and that
> is nothing but GM by a different set of letters...
>
> I suppose I have just been fortunate enough not to get a "normal car"
> since 1972 - because I have not had a side mount battery mobile in all
> that time. What are you some punk 20 something ?
>
> Take your sorry ass whine about my Saturn unhappiness and shove off -
> it looks like you are the " F$%@ing IDIOT!" from where I'm typing...
>
> A POS is a POS even if YOU own one.
>
> >
> > Your a F$%@ing IDIOT! Boohooo side mounted battery post! Gee yeah that
> >hasnt been the NORM for the past 2 decades! Oh and by the way Saturn
> >doesnt make batteries. Next time you want to bitch about a battery email
> >Exide or shove it up your a$$ so we dont have to hear your UNRELATED BS
> >RANTINGS.
> >
> > Hey I know! Lets blame car manufacturers when a piece of road debris
> >shreds our tire! Lets blame our car manufacturers when a tree falls on
> >our car!
> >
> >moron...
>
>

"TheSnipe at anti-spamdotmemindspringdotmecom" >
wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:07:51 GMT, Blah blah > wrote:
>
> Sorry to burst your bubble you puke - the battery was Delco and that
> is nothing but GM by a different set of letters...
>
> I suppose I have just been fortunate enough not to get a "normal car"
> since 1972 - because I have not had a side mount battery mobile in all
> that time. What are you some punk 20 something ?
>

Hmm...Saturn's and lots of FWD cars/vans have side mount batteries and
Saturn has been that way for oh....14yrs. Also Delco has been it's own
company for close to 6yrs now. GM spun it off just as Ford and Chrysler did
their parts divisions a decade or more ago. It cost too much to own your
own parts division any more.

Jim

I had the same problem a few weeks ago with the battery setup in my 2000
Saturn L series wagon.
This vehicle has very low mileage (around 40K), always garaged. One day I
inspected
the battery, the corrosion was built up so bad it was falling off in chunks
around the engine-
I'm not arguing against replacing the battery after 5 years, but I agree
w/the original poster,
the design is so cheap that the ring that holds the hot wire to the terminal
is just a washer!
Battery acid had actually ruined this ring, it fell apart in my hands...I
replaced the battery
and all the damaged parts, which was an expensive repair. The whole setup is
just cheap junk!

Terry



"TheSnipe at anti-spamdotmemindspringdotmecom" >
wrote in message ...
> Sorry dipstick - I don't recall going vulgar in my original post...
>
> I've had several failed batteries over the years and NONE were due to
> the terminal falling off the thing till this piece of junk design
> battery failed.
>
> To me it is a doink such as your self that is showing they "Don't Get
> it" and have no clue.
>
> The battery is from a vendor to the vehicle vendor - they are both
> root causes of the problem - the vehicle vendor used poor design (but
> cost effective to them) designed equipage. Your dim little mind
> probably has a problem grasping that Corporate AmeriKa is more than
> willing to use low quality and cost parts to sell you something that
> will drain your wallet further down the road...
>
> Blah Blah Blah to you to DS. Click elsewhere if the water is too hot
> here.
>
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:19:05 GMT, Blah blah > wrote:
>
>> And again you still dont get it. Gee yeah a nearly 5 year old battery
>>fails...SUPRISE! You better start catching up on car care knowledge
>>before you aimlessly rant and missplace blame. If you came in here
>>asking, why did my battery post fail, or why are the post mounted on the
>>side instead of being another asshole venting flames maybe just maybe
>>someone would of responded more "POLITELY" and you might have learn
>>something from it. But if you want to be ignorant take it someplace
>>else.
>
>
>
>
> Is it better to Snipe or be Sniped ?
> TheSnipeAtdisplace-MindspringPeriodCom < AntiSPAM spelling

>I've had were top terminal battery types and that battery
>form appears to die from plate flaking long before the terminals can
>rot out - if they ever do).

Yeah, or that battery form also dies when you get in a crash and your hood
shorts the battery out and it explodes!

Thats why they came out with the side terminals. I've never seen any problems
with them. Likely the battery terminal was tightened too tight. And besides, if
the battery was 5 years old, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

In article <gaOed.240267$wV.123731@attbi_s54>,
says...
> I had the same problem a few weeks ago with the battery setup in my 2000
> Saturn L series wagon.
> This vehicle has very low mileage (around 40K), always garaged. One day I
> inspected
> the battery, the corrosion was built up so bad it was falling off in chunks
> around the engine-
> I'm not arguing against replacing the battery after 5 years, but I agree
> w/the original poster,
> the design is so cheap that the ring that holds the hot wire to the terminal
> is just a washer!
> Battery acid had actually ruined this ring, it fell apart in my hands...I
> replaced the battery
> and all the damaged parts, which was an expensive repair. The whole setup is
> just cheap junk!
>
> Terry
>
The ranter is ignorant and wants to stay ignorant, that is the only
point he has made. Dont be like him and instead learn something about
the problem and how to address it rather than going off in a tirade of
ingorance. (read on if you wish to "learn")

The design is not "cheap". If anyone had any real experiance with
batteries they would know 90% the problems lay with the owners, not
everyone else they try to blame.

Problems with the old Top post designs are similar if not more
plentiful. I have dealt with many top post batteries that leaked around
the post. The Top Post batteries get just as corroded up... I get a
bunch of top post batteries that dont make any connection at all without
wire brushing them. (hence why they make wire brushes specific for top
post batteries) The clamps on those stupid things break and crack all
the time from being over stressed. The wires tend to break where they
clamp do to vibrations and melt from high amperage soon after.

The only problems with Side post batteries that I have seen have been
contributed to no one "lubricating" them or keeping them clean. Whenever
you get corrosion or a bad connection on any battery the amperage spikes
going through those areas and they get hot enough to melt the lead and
debond the plastic (hence where the leaks come from). I've also seen top
post batteries with the post nearly boiled off. How is that better?

Something as simple as putting "Vaseline" on the mounting/clamping
surface every couple of years can prevent that. If you have been keeping
up with what I have been saying you should now know the failure isnt the
battery but those who fail to maintain them. If this is to much for
anyone to do then might I suggest a shopping cart as a means of
transportation?

For further battery care information, for the people smart enough to
read, goto google and do some searches on battery care. Pretty soon I'm
just going to start ignoring these complete idiots that keep coming to
ignorant baseless conclusions... Especially ones with no automotive
education/training backgrounds that think they "somehow" know more.

Hah, 90% is probably accurate, maybe higher...seems like nowadays
most people want to completely ignore what's under their hood for 200K
and then complain when something goes wrong....but I still say that
terminal design is not durable, in my case it fell apart after less than
39K.
Seems in that respect not to be a great improvement over the old top-
mounted terminals-- the old car I drive ('68 camaro) has never had that
problem. Maybe it's just easier to SEE corrosoion starting on those
terminals--



>>
> The ranter is ignorant and wants to stay ignorant, that is the only
> point he has made. Dont be like him and instead learn something about
> the problem and how to address it rather than going off in a tirade of
> ingorance. (read on if you wish to "learn")
>
> The design is not "cheap". If anyone had any real experiance with
> batteries they would know 90% the problems lay with the owners, not
> everyone else they try to blame.
>
> Problems with the old Top post designs are similar if not more
> plentiful. I have dealt with many top post batteries that leaked around
> the post. The Top Post batteries get just as corroded up... I get a
> bunch of top post batteries that dont make any connection at all without
> wire brushing them. (hence why they make wire brushes specific for top
> post batteries) The clamps on those stupid things break and crack all
> the time from being over stressed. The wires tend to break where they
> clamp do to vibrations and melt from high amperage soon after.
>
> The only problems with Side post batteries that I have seen have been
> contributed to no one "lubricating" them or keeping them clean. Whenever
> you get corrosion or a bad connection on any battery the amperage spikes
> going through those areas and they get hot enough to melt the lead and
> debond the plastic (hence where the leaks come from). I've also seen top
> post batteries with the post nearly boiled off. How is that better?
>
> Something as simple as putting "Vaseline" on the mounting/clamping
> surface every couple of years can prevent that. If you have been keeping
> up with what I have been saying you should now know the failure isnt the
> battery but those who fail to maintain them. If this is to much for
> anyone to do then might I suggest a shopping cart as a means of
> transportation?
>
> For further battery care information, for the people smart enough to
> read, goto google and do some searches on battery care. Pretty soon I'm
> just going to start ignoring these complete idiots that keep coming to
> ignorant baseless conclusions... Especially ones with no automotive
> education/training backgrounds that think they "somehow" know more.
>

>The side terminal on the Saturn I had my problem with did not have any
>shielding on it's terminals - of course it's saving grace is that most
>of the stuff around it in the engine compartment was plastic to start
>with so it would only like short if it got a hood crunched into it -
>what a thought the same thing that would short out an unshielded top
>terminal battery...Hummm And which way do you suppose the battery
>twists as the front end folds up on itself in a front end collision...

My 95 has a cap that goes over the positive terminal. Besides, even with side
post unshielded, its much more likely to crunch a hood down into a top post
then a side post. Which way does the battery fold in a front end collision? If
the front end collision is severe enough to where something hits the battery
and makes it fold under, the car is going to be junk and the driver is going to
be dead, at which case it doesn't matter.


>
>As to the battery being old being my "fault..." I only know that the
>sleaze Saturn dealership that sold it to me in April THIS year (2004)
>said the battery was fresh and fine... So much for Saturn being
>anything but as low ball as the rest of the business.

I didn't realize the battery was new. As such, I would guess the tech
overtightened the terminal(s).