grease, clutch cylinders

I need to replace the clutch master and slave cylinders on my 94 Civic.
Any tips?

Does it really matter whether I get OEM from e.g. Majestic, or
aftermarket from the local store from which I *think* it will be
somewhat less?

I'm assuming that I need to buy the clutch master seal and cotter pin
separately. Anything else I should have on hand? I'd obviously like to
try to avoid having to run out to get stuff (barring unforeseen
problems) while the car is unavailable.

Can I assume that the reservoir hose clamp and hose will hold up in the
transition from old master cylinder to new?

And how about grease? The Helm manual lists "super high temp urea
grease" and "brake assembly lube or equivalent rubber grease"--are these
items that can be picked up easily at any auto parts store? I've got an
old container of NLGI#2 lithium wheel bearing grease (Castrol) that's
listed for high-temp applications (would have to be for bearings)--would
that be an appropriate equivalent to the former? I know nothing of
grease: what's the difference between lithium and urea greases? The
Honda grease is $10 from slhonda, which seems excessive.

Any info on potential gotchas will be appreciated, as this will be my
first significant automotive job. It looks pretty straightforward and
I'm far from a mechanical idiot.

BTW, is the "Mity Vac Automotive Tune-up and Brake Bleeding Kit" a good
choice, even though it's a bit pricey? I'm looking for somethig I can
use to not only bleed the system, but also to suck the fluid out of the
reservoir. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00947058000
Is there something better?

Thanks!

Abeness wrote:
> I need to replace the clutch master and slave cylinders on my 94 Civic.
> Any tips?
>
> Does it really matter whether I get OEM from e.g. Majestic, or
> aftermarket from the local store from which I *think* it will be
> somewhat less?

how long you going to keep the car? some of the aftermarkets only last
a couple of years. oem lasts at least 10.

>
> I'm assuming that I need to buy the clutch master seal and cotter pin
> separately. Anything else I should have on hand? I'd obviously like to
> try to avoid having to run out to get stuff (barring unforeseen
> problems) while the car is unavailable.
>
> Can I assume that the reservoir hose clamp and hose will hold up in the
> transition from old master cylinder to new?

should. you'll find out!

>
> And how about grease? The Helm manual lists "super high temp urea
> grease" and "brake assembly lube or equivalent rubber grease"--are these
> items that can be picked up easily at any auto parts store? I've got an
> old container of NLGI#2 lithium wheel bearing grease (Castrol) that's
> listed for high-temp applications (would have to be for bearings)--would
> that be an appropriate equivalent to the former? I know nothing of
> grease: what's the difference between lithium and urea greases? The
> Honda grease is $10 from slhonda, which seems excessive.

absolutely do /not/ use the castrol grease. the hydraulics use natural
rubber which needs a silicone grease or plain old brake fluid to lube.
anything else [like castrol] attacks the polymer making it first swell,
then fall apart.

on the actuator end, you can get away with a cheaper grease /if/ it
doesn't creep. but if it does creep, like the castrol, the light
elements work their way back towards the hydraulic end and contaminate
the rubber...

yes, the auto store should have both of the honda spec type greases, but
be sure you stick to your requirements, not settle for "think this'll work".

>
> Any info on potential gotchas will be appreciated, as this will be my
> first significant automotive job. It looks pretty straightforward and
> I'm far from a mechanical idiot.
>
> BTW, is the "Mity Vac Automotive Tune-up and Brake Bleeding Kit" a good
> choice, even though it's a bit pricey? I'm looking for somethig I can
> use to not only bleed the system, but also to suck the fluid out of the
> reservoir. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00947058000
> Is there something better?

i just use a neighbor to press the pedal. costs me a beer.

>
> Thanks!

jim beam wrote:
> how long you going to keep the car? some of the aftermarkets only last
> a couple of years. oem lasts at least 10.

For the few bucks extra, then, I'll go OEM. Just got the car, and plan
to drive it into the ground.

>> Can I assume that the reservoir hose clamp and hose will hold up in
>> the transition from old master cylinder to new?
>
>
> should. you'll find out!

Right. Thanks!

> absolutely do /not/ use the castrol grease. the hydraulics use natural
> rubber which needs a silicone grease or plain old brake fluid to lube.
> anything else [like castrol] attacks the polymer making it first swell,
> then fall apart.

Exactly why I asked. So what is urea grease, anyway?

Abeness wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> how long you going to keep the car? some of the aftermarkets only
>> last a couple of years. oem lasts at least 10.
>
>
> For the few bucks extra, then, I'll go OEM. Just got the car, and plan
> to drive it into the ground.

remember to change your hydraulic fluids yearly! old fluid has absorbed
moisture which corrodes the metals in the moving parts. that in turn
abrades the seals, then they leak. it also has much greater risk of
vapor lock at high temperatures. finally, fresh fluid contains rubber
preservatives & conditioners greatly improving life.

>
>>> Can I assume that the reservoir hose clamp and hose will hold up in
>>> the transition from old master cylinder to new?
>>
>>
>>
>> should. you'll find out!
>
>
> Right. Thanks!
>
>> absolutely do /not/ use the castrol grease. the hydraulics use
>> natural rubber which needs a silicone grease or plain old brake fluid
>> to lube. anything else [like castrol] attacks the polymer making it
>> first swell, then fall apart.
>
>
> Exactly why I asked. So what is urea grease, anyway?

i gather the poly-urea is just a highly stable thickening agent. i
believe that normal thickeners, soaps, are not as good at higher
temperatures.

if you want to do some experiments, get some [natural] rubber bands,
then smear one in each of these different greases, oil & brake fluid.
then leave them in a safe place for a couple of weeks. you'll see some
pretty dramatic differences when you come back to them.

jim beam wrote:
> remember to change your hydraulic fluids yearly! old fluid has absorbed
> moisture which corrodes the metals in the moving parts. that in turn
> abrades the seals, then they leak. it also has much greater risk of
> vapor lock at high temperatures. finally, fresh fluid contains rubber
> preservatives & conditioners greatly improving life.

Thanks a lot for the tip. I have to replace the clutch master and slave
cuz they're both leaking, and lord knows if the gal I bought it from
ever replaced the fluids. I've been meaning to replace the brake fluids
(ABS included) ASAP for this very reason, and tranny oil too. Not that
those clutch seals wouldn't have gone after 10 years anyway, of course.

She neglected to give me the repair history when I picked up the car
(yes, she had kept all her receipts), and then threw it out without
asking if I wanted them! Unbelievable. Shame on me for not confirming
that they were there. She did draw up a list of mileages at which some
of the major things had been done (e.g. timing belt/water pump), but
gads. Lucky for me the car is in great shape, despite the local dealer
finding $3000 worth of repairs they could do when I had them inspect it
(at $94/hr). Glad I know some stuff and got to see it on the rack...

Just one example: they wanted to replace the front rotors for some $400
becase they were "rusted inside". Unh-hunh... that's what rotors do,
man, and you don't replace them until they start to weaken and you have
thumping, etc. They definitely did what I expected them to, though, gave
me the worst-case scenario, and it wasn't bad.

> if you want to do some experiments, get some [natural] rubber bands,
> then smear one in each of these different greases, oil & brake fluid.
> then leave them in a safe place for a couple of weeks. you'll see some
> pretty dramatic differences when you come back to them.

Yeah, I bet. I had forgotten the effect of regular oil on rubber, but
you're quite right--it degrades quickly. I've never tried brake fluid on
rubber, will have to do that. Can't stand touching the stuff.

Abeness wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> remember to change your hydraulic fluids yearly! old fluid has
>> absorbed moisture which corrodes the metals in the moving parts. that
>> in turn abrades the seals, then they leak. it also has much greater
>> risk of vapor lock at high temperatures. finally, fresh fluid
>> contains rubber preservatives & conditioners greatly improving life.
>
>
> Thanks a lot for the tip. I have to replace the clutch master and slave
> cuz they're both leaking, and lord knows if the gal I bought it from
> ever replaced the fluids. I've been meaning to replace the brake fluids
> (ABS included) ASAP for this very reason, and tranny oil too. Not that
> those clutch seals wouldn't have gone after 10 years anyway, of course.
>
> She neglected to give me the repair history when I picked up the car
> (yes, she had kept all her receipts), and then threw it out without
> asking if I wanted them! Unbelievable. Shame on me for not confirming
> that they were there. She did draw up a list of mileages at which some
> of the major things had been done (e.g. timing belt/water pump), but
> gads. Lucky for me the car is in great shape, despite the local dealer
> finding $3000 worth of repairs they could do when I had them inspect it
> (at $94/hr). Glad I know some stuff and got to see it on the rack...
>
> Just one example: they wanted to replace the front rotors for some $400
> becase they were "rusted inside". Unh-hunh... that's what rotors do,
> man, and you don't replace them until they start to weaken and you have
> thumping, etc. They definitely did what I expected them to, though, gave
> me the worst-case scenario, and it wasn't bad.

some dealers are utterly unscrupulous.

>
>> if you want to do some experiments, get some [natural] rubber bands,
>> then smear one in each of these different greases, oil & brake fluid.
>> then leave them in a safe place for a couple of weeks. you'll see
>> some pretty dramatic differences when you come back to them.
>
>
> Yeah, I bet. I had forgotten the effect of regular oil on rubber, but
> you're quite right--it degrades quickly. I've never tried brake fluid on
> rubber, will have to do that. Can't stand touching the stuff.

if you ever get brake fluid on paint, slosh water all over it asap.
don't touch it. just keep running water on it for a few minutes, then
let it dry naturally. when you're done, the paint will be fine. if you
try wiping it off, the paint will come off with the wipe, & that's
expensive!

jim beam wrote:
> if you ever get brake fluid on paint, slosh water all over it asap.
> don't touch it. just keep running water on it for a few minutes, then
> let it dry naturally. when you're done, the paint will be fine. if you
> try wiping it off, the paint will come off with the wipe, & that's
> expensive!

Thanks for another good tip. I probably would've wiped ASAP and been
unhappy...

jim beam wrote:
> Abeness wrote:
>> And how about grease? The Helm manual lists "super high temp urea
>> grease" and "brake assembly lube or equivalent rubber grease"
<snip>

> be sure you stick to your requirements, not settle for "think this'll
> work".

OK, the local store didn't have urea grease, but it doesn't have a huge
selection. It did have CRC Synthetic Brake Caliper grease, marked for
very high temp, made of Polyalphaolefin, etc. I can't see brake fluid
being thick enough to stick around for very long in the slave cylinder
boot, so I guess I'll use this stuff. Unfortunately, the urea gease
apparently can't be shipped (so says slhonda), so I'll either have to
get it from my local dealer or find an auto store that carries it.

Abeness wrote:
> Unfortunately, the urea gease
> apparently can't be shipped (so says slhonda), so I'll either have to
> get it from my local dealer or find an auto store that carries it.

Boy, urea grease is a hard-to-find item. Not at Pep Boys, AutoZone or
Strauss, and non of them can get it, either. Dealer has a 1.7 oz. tub
for $14.14!

just use high temp wheel bearing grease, $1.99 a tub at Autozone.

"Abeness" > wrote in message
...
> Abeness wrote:
> > Unfortunately, the urea gease
> > apparently can't be shipped (so says slhonda), so I'll either have to
> > get it from my local dealer or find an auto store that carries it.
>
> Boy, urea grease is a hard-to-find item. Not at Pep Boys, AutoZone or
> Strauss, and non of them can get it, either. Dealer has a 1.7 oz. tub
> for $14.14!