Haynes manual instructions

In a previous posting, "Bill 2" > had the audacity
to say:

:Actually yes they are. They are filled with so much incorrect, incomplete
:information that your money is better spent paying a couple bucks more for
:the factory service manual.

I was actually dumb enough to buy a Haynes manual once, so I
actually agree with you and Dan, except for the fact that it's
not a "couple" of bucks more for the factory service manual.
It's more like $100 more.

--
E.R. aka SJG aka Ricardo
present location: vancouver bc canada
refugee from the european union's evil bureaucracy

In article >, newsgroup says:

>Obviously you have not priced any factory service manuals lately.

FWIW, Nissan (/Infiniti) has a service where you pay $20 and get 24
hours of access to their entire techpubs library. You then download
all the .PDFs you're interested in, and save 'em to CD-ROM. I got
my FX' service manual this way, ~40-odd .PDFs spread out over ~200MB.

I even printed all gazillion pages in 4-up, duplex (i.e., 8 pages/
sheet) mode- while you can't really do any work in that format (when
I needed to check on something, I just printed the appropriate pages
normally), it's good as a guide as to where to look.

But if you buy the CD, it's $200.

-Kenny

--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Los Angeles
H: 3630 S. Sepulveda Blvd. #138, L.A., CA 90034-6809 (310) 391-1898

In article >, newsgroup says:

>Obviously you have not priced any factory service manuals lately.

FWIW, Nissan (/Infiniti) has a service where you pay $20 and get 24
hours of access to their entire techpubs library. You then download
all the .PDFs you're interested in, and save 'em to CD-ROM. I got
my FX' service manual this way, ~40-odd .PDFs spread out over ~200MB.

I even printed all gazillion pages in 4-up, duplex (i.e., 8 pages/
sheet) mode- while you can't really do any work in that format (when
I needed to check on something, I just printed the appropriate pages
normally), it's good as a guide as to where to look.

But if you buy the CD, it's $200.

-Kenny

--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Los Angeles
H: 3630 S. Sepulveda Blvd. #138, L.A., CA 90034-6809 (310) 391-1898

>>This should be included with every Haynes manual sold:
>>http://u225.torque.net/haynes_instructions.html
>
>While they are not the best choice, they are not quite that bad.

There's a huge variation, depending on which model car the Haynes
manual is for. Different authors, I guess.

For example, the '87 tercel manual is excellent.
But the 3-series BMW manual is crap.

-Ted

>>This should be included with every Haynes manual sold:
>>http://u225.torque.net/haynes_instructions.html
>
>While they are not the best choice, they are not quite that bad.

There's a huge variation, depending on which model car the Haynes
manual is for. Different authors, I guess.

For example, the '87 tercel manual is excellent.
But the 3-series BMW manual is crap.

-Ted

"Bill 2" > wrote in message >...
> "Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message

> > While they are not the best choice, they are not quite that bad.

> Actually yes they are. They are filled with so much incorrect, incomplete
> information that your money is better spent paying a couple bucks more for
> the factory service manual.

The Haynes manual for my 1997 Nissan left out the torque specs for my
brakes and front suspension, and they kept referring to a "torque
member" but never explained what it was. It said that the fuel filter
was in the rear, but it was actually in the engine compartment (and it
wasn't a matter of the car having two fuel filters). The body
information was for a different model (one illustration was for an
early 1970s vehicle and even said "Datsun"), and the wiring diagram
was labelled "typical," which is a euphemism for "completely different
from your car." And when it came to information about the computer
codes and fuel/emissions, the Haynes excluded almost everything, and
the diagnostic charts for drivability problems seemed to be 100%
generic. For example for rough idle they gave the usual hints, like
spark, lean mixture, and wrong idle speed, but they mentioned nothing
at all about the idle speed regulator.

"Bill 2" > wrote in message >...
> "Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message

> > While they are not the best choice, they are not quite that bad.

> Actually yes they are. They are filled with so much incorrect, incomplete
> information that your money is better spent paying a couple bucks more for
> the factory service manual.

The Haynes manual for my 1997 Nissan left out the torque specs for my
brakes and front suspension, and they kept referring to a "torque
member" but never explained what it was. It said that the fuel filter
was in the rear, but it was actually in the engine compartment (and it
wasn't a matter of the car having two fuel filters). The body
information was for a different model (one illustration was for an
early 1970s vehicle and even said "Datsun"), and the wiring diagram
was labelled "typical," which is a euphemism for "completely different
from your car." And when it came to information about the computer
codes and fuel/emissions, the Haynes excluded almost everything, and
the diagnostic charts for drivability problems seemed to be 100%
generic. For example for rough idle they gave the usual hints, like
spark, lean mixture, and wrong idle speed, but they mentioned nothing
at all about the idle speed regulator.

"E.R." > wrote in message
...
> In a previous posting, "Bill 2" > had the audacity
> to say:
>
> :Actually yes they are. They are filled with so much incorrect, incomplete
> :information that your money is better spent paying a couple bucks more
for
> :the factory service manual.
>
> I was actually dumb enough to buy a Haynes manual once, so I
> actually agree with you and Dan, except for the fact that it's
> not a "couple" of bucks more for the factory service manual.

Factor in the money you didn't waste buying wrong parts, or damaging parts
following Haynes instructions, lost time following wrong procedures,
repairing the hole in the wall from when you were so ****ed off at the book
you punched a hole in it, etc.

Not typical, but I just did a quick check on Ebay for the FSM for my car and
it was $5 "Buy it now" + $5 shipping. The Haynes manual bidding started at
$15.

New I probably bought the manual for $100-$150, and I can see when the FSM
is $400 people look at other options, but I still think Haynes and Chilton's
are poor options.

> It's more like $100 more.

And worth every penny.

"E.R." > wrote in message
...
> In a previous posting, "Bill 2" > had the audacity
> to say:
>
> :Actually yes they are. They are filled with so much incorrect, incomplete
> :information that your money is better spent paying a couple bucks more
for
> :the factory service manual.
>
> I was actually dumb enough to buy a Haynes manual once, so I
> actually agree with you and Dan, except for the fact that it's
> not a "couple" of bucks more for the factory service manual.

Factor in the money you didn't waste buying wrong parts, or damaging parts
following Haynes instructions, lost time following wrong procedures,
repairing the hole in the wall from when you were so ****ed off at the book
you punched a hole in it, etc.

Not typical, but I just did a quick check on Ebay for the FSM for my car and
it was $5 "Buy it now" + $5 shipping. The Haynes manual bidding started at
$15.

New I probably bought the manual for $100-$150, and I can see when the FSM
is $400 people look at other options, but I still think Haynes and Chilton's
are poor options.

> It's more like $100 more.

And worth every penny.

wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:58:38 GMT, (Brent P)
> wrote:
>
> ||In article >, Bill 2 wrote:
> ||>
> ||> "Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message
> ||> ...
> ||>> In article ich.edu>,
> ||>> says...
> ||>>
> ||>> >This should be included with every Haynes manual sold:
> ||>> >http://u225.torque.net/haynes_instructions.html
> ||>>
> ||>> While they are not the best choice, they are not quite that bad.
> ||>> ----------------
> ||>> Alex
> ||>
> ||> Actually yes they are. They are filled with so much incorrect, incomplete
> ||> information that your money is better spent paying a couple bucks more for
> ||> the factory service manual.
> ||
> ||I'd rather not have a manual than a haynes or a chiltons...
>
> You may get your wish. Many of the manufacturers no longer offer a manual to the
> owner. If they do, it may be a CD for $100 or more
>
> Haynes fills a need for reasonably-priced repair information specific to your
> car. It is correct far more than it is wrong. I have a number of Haynes
> manuals and have yet to find a procedure incorrectly documented. It is true
> that sometimes there is not enough info to answer the questions that come up,
> but for the money I'll accept that.
>
> I obtain a Haynes manual for every vehicle I acquire. If I can also get a FSM, I
> will, but that's a backup. The Haynes gets the grease smudges.
> Texas Parts Guy

Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the very
first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an electrical
problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and sprung for a whole
$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden fuse that was not
shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I ended up replacing a
perfectly good factory alternator when all that was wrong was that the
in-line fuse that the manual did not show had mechanically fractured.
Aftermarket alt. cost $260, plus I now had an inferior aftermarket alt.
in place of the factory one. FSM would have cost around $90. Tell me:
Did I save any money? You do the math (13 + 260 vs. 90 + 5).

BTW, I found out after the fact that, without exception, every vehicle
of the span of years and model variation covered by that Haynes manual
came from the factory with that fuse, and, after purchasing the FSM the
next day, verified that that fuse was clearly shown in the schematics,
yet the Haynes schematic was labeled "TYPICAL".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---