B/RB vacuum advance source?

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>
>>Oh, one more dumb question - are the points style and early non-lean
>>burn electronic units the same format? same arm shape, etc.?
>
>
> Same body shape, same attachment points. Arm shape is a little different;
> later arms attach to the reluctor plate at a point further in towards the
> center of the distributor, but the pickup plates are double-drilled for
> the further-out and the further-in arm attachment point, so you can use
> either type of advance with a '73-up pickup plate. If you happen to have
> an early-production pickup plate not double-drilled, no big deal; I'm sure
> you have a drill.
>

Cool. I've pretty much verified based on your msg. that I have a '73
production plate (well, at least the number on the vac advance turned
out to be a '73 number) and it does appear to have two holes like you
describe. So that means I can use either/or right?

Dang, now I wonder if I really need another unit at all. That looks a
lot like the old Stude unit might fit that, if I hadn't left it at my
friend's garage on Sunday. D'oh. Je suis idiot. Had I had a
MoPar-savvy friend handy to point out the extra hole (it's kinda hidden
under the pickup) I could quite possibly have had this in and running on
Sunday and I could be doing some half fast recurving by now.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Cool. I've pretty much verified based on your msg. that I have a '73
> production plate (well, at least the number on the vac advance turned
> out to be a '73 number) and it does appear to have two holes like you
> describe. So that means I can use either/or right?

Yep.

DS

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Cool. I've pretty much verified based on your msg. that I have a '73
> production plate (well, at least the number on the vac advance turned
> out to be a '73 number) and it does appear to have two holes like you
> describe. So that means I can use either/or right?

Yep.

DS

Nate Nagel wrote:

> Can someone tell me where I can find a source for an early 70's B/RB
> vacuum advance? Preferably adjustable but not necessarily? I've hit
> every parts store in the area and the only one that claims to be able to
> get it just tried to sell me an A/LA unit (opposite rotation.)

I'd like to know that also. Mopar electronic distributors last FOREVER
(no side-load whatsoever on the bushings) except for the vacuum advance.
The only way I know to get a new vacuum advance unit is to buy a
rebuilt distributor, put its vacuum advance on my old distributor, and
throw the "reman" distributor in the attic in case I ever get desparate
enough to be forced to use questionable junk some day...

The really sad thing is that whenever I find a junkyard distributor with
a vacuum advance that doesn't leak, I grab it and use it and even though
it may be nearly 40 years old, it lasts longer than the new cr*ppy ones
they put on cr*ppy re-manufactured distributors :-/

Interesting project you've got going, BTW. If you need to re-curve the
Mopar unit, there are a lot of different advance springs that have been
used over the years. Lightweight springs (fast advance) are easy to come
by at speed shops or online, but if you need to slow the advance down
you have to go junkyard diving. One interesting thing to note is that
stock Mopar setups had one "light" and one "heavy" spring, but the heavy
spring had a slotted end hook so it didn't do ANYTHING until the very
end of the advance curve. IOW, running two stock "light" springs will
actually SLOW the advance curve up to the point where the "heavy" spring
would finally kick in, at which point it becomes faster. Not usually a
problem, though, as speeding up the curve at the tail end of the curve
(higher RPM) generally doesn't cause problems.

Nate Nagel wrote:

> Can someone tell me where I can find a source for an early 70's B/RB
> vacuum advance? Preferably adjustable but not necessarily? I've hit
> every parts store in the area and the only one that claims to be able to
> get it just tried to sell me an A/LA unit (opposite rotation.)

I'd like to know that also. Mopar electronic distributors last FOREVER
(no side-load whatsoever on the bushings) except for the vacuum advance.
The only way I know to get a new vacuum advance unit is to buy a
rebuilt distributor, put its vacuum advance on my old distributor, and
throw the "reman" distributor in the attic in case I ever get desparate
enough to be forced to use questionable junk some day...

The really sad thing is that whenever I find a junkyard distributor with
a vacuum advance that doesn't leak, I grab it and use it and even though
it may be nearly 40 years old, it lasts longer than the new cr*ppy ones
they put on cr*ppy re-manufactured distributors :-/

Interesting project you've got going, BTW. If you need to re-curve the
Mopar unit, there are a lot of different advance springs that have been
used over the years. Lightweight springs (fast advance) are easy to come
by at speed shops or online, but if you need to slow the advance down
you have to go junkyard diving. One interesting thing to note is that
stock Mopar setups had one "light" and one "heavy" spring, but the heavy
spring had a slotted end hook so it didn't do ANYTHING until the very
end of the advance curve. IOW, running two stock "light" springs will
actually SLOW the advance curve up to the point where the "heavy" spring
would finally kick in, at which point it becomes faster. Not usually a
problem, though, as speeding up the curve at the tail end of the curve
(higher RPM) generally doesn't cause problems.

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Kunkel wrote:
>
>
>>I've done several of these conversions. You will need to modify the
>>reluctor to correct a phase discrepency between the rotor and the cap,
>>it amounts to cutting a new relocated keyway in the bore of the
>>reluctor.
>
>
> You mean like Ebay 4500838245 .
>
>
>>For the big block vacuum advance unit try Year One, their part number is
>>NG1025; about $20.
>
>
> I love how Year One pretends that just one vacuum advance, which *fits*
> all B/RB single-point or electronic distributors, *works* in all of them.
>

Last time I checked, single-point vacuum can doesn't even *fit* in an
electronic distributor.

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Kunkel wrote:
>
>
>>I've done several of these conversions. You will need to modify the
>>reluctor to correct a phase discrepency between the rotor and the cap,
>>it amounts to cutting a new relocated keyway in the bore of the
>>reluctor.
>
>
> You mean like Ebay 4500838245 .
>
>
>>For the big block vacuum advance unit try Year One, their part number is
>>NG1025; about $20.
>
>
> I love how Year One pretends that just one vacuum advance, which *fits*
> all B/RB single-point or electronic distributors, *works* in all of them.
>

Last time I checked, single-point vacuum can doesn't even *fit* in an
electronic distributor.

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

>>My parts distributor has a bad diaphragm in the
>>vacuum advance and I'm having zippy joy finding a replacement.
>
>
> I looked up the advance in the NAPA Echlin line for a '66 Dodge Charger
> w/383 engine. This pre-smog application would seem a good match for your
> '62. There are two possibilities listed: VC1165 and VC1175. Here are the
> specs:
>
BZZT. That would be a single-point, he needs an electronic distributor.
The housings are the same, but the advance mechanisms don't swap because
the pivot plate for points differs from the pivot plate for a reluctor.
Something like a '72 C-body (440 or 383) would be a good starting point.

If you can actually FIND such an animal for sale retail, let me know!

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

>>My parts distributor has a bad diaphragm in the
>>vacuum advance and I'm having zippy joy finding a replacement.
>
>
> I looked up the advance in the NAPA Echlin line for a '66 Dodge Charger
> w/383 engine. This pre-smog application would seem a good match for your
> '62. There are two possibilities listed: VC1165 and VC1175. Here are the
> specs:
>
BZZT. That would be a single-point, he needs an electronic distributor.
The housings are the same, but the advance mechanisms don't swap because
the pivot plate for points differs from the pivot plate for a reluctor.
Something like a '72 C-body (440 or 383) would be a good starting point.

If you can actually FIND such an animal for sale retail, let me know!

Nate Nagel wrote:

> Oh, one more dumb question - are the points style and early non-lean
> burn electronic units the same format? same arm shape, etc.? That
> would give me more options should I choose to play with the vac advance
> down the road I suppose. I just ASSumed that the Chrysler breaker plate
> was the same as the Studebaker breaker plate and therefore the vac
> advances were different points vs. electronic. (as my '62 Stude vac
> advance is most definitely not directly interchangeable with the busted
> '73? MoPar unit, which is the whole reason for this line of inquiry.)


No, that's a SMART question. As I mentioned in a couple of other posts,
they don't interchange. Been there, done that, said "****."