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Extended oil changes and high mileage



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 29th 05, 06:17 AM
Rudy Hiebert
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My experience with the 5W-30 six month or 12,000 kms. lube(whichever
comes first) has been a 13,000 kms. after five months which was
sampled and analyzed. It came back "OK For Continued Use, change not
required, reanalyze at next schduled service". The test also showed
that the viscosity had gone up to 8W. If I would use the 40,000 kms
lube (or one year, whichever comes first)I would use the superior oil
filter to accompany the same brand air filter I'm using.

My contention is that using some synthetic lubes is a waste if you're
not using superior filters. I also would probably not go 40,000 k's,
just the fact that it can means I've kept wear, fuel consumption,
related maintenance down to a minimum. (That may only be my opinion,
but it makes sense to me & I like it
Ads
  #42  
Old March 29th 05, 03:54 PM
John S.
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The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare service
schedules for diesel engines used in passenger cars and large
commercial and/or stationary applications.

  #43  
Old April 23rd 05, 10:58 PM
Huw
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"John S." > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Don't forget that car manuafcturers are playing a numbers game...they
> want to keep the widely used but largely useless Annual Cost of
> Maintenance number as low as possible. The cost of an engine wearing
> out after 100,000 miles is not part of that equation. Unless the
> filter was changed very frequently I could not imagine running a diesel
> much more than 4,000 between oil changes. The internal stresses are
> much higher than with a gasoline engine and it is a fundamentally dirty
> design.
>


Modern VW and European GM diesel engines can have service intervals of up to
30,000 miles while their petrol counterparts have only 20,000 mile
intervals, so go figure.

Huw


  #44  
Old April 23rd 05, 11:01 PM
Huw
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"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "John S." wrote:
>>
>> Don't forget that car manuafcturers are playing a numbers game...they
>> want to keep the widely used but largely useless Annual Cost of
>> Maintenance number as low as possible. The cost of an engine wearing
>> out after 100,000 miles is not part of that equation. Unless the
>> filter was changed very frequently I could not imagine running a diesel
>> much more than 4,000 between oil changes. The internal stresses are
>> much higher than with a gasoline engine and it is a fundamentally dirty
>> design.

>
> On the otherhand, raw diesel fuel has some minimal
> lubricating properties compared to gasoline, and most diesel
> engines are built with significantly more robust parts. I've
> always changed the oil in my farm tractors at the
> manufacturer's recommended intervals. Two of my three
> current tractos recommend 150 hour changes. This is probably
> more than equivalent to a 5000 mile change in a diesel car
> (a car is never going to work as hard on average as one of
> my tractors). One tractor is 24 years old with 5000+ hours.
> The other is 14 years old with 6000+ hours. Neither has been
> rebuilt and both are still running with all original engine
> parts, including injection pumps and turbochargers. I ahve
> always used either Texaco Ursa Super 15W40 Motor Oil or
> Shell Rotella T 15W40 Motor Oil.
>


Most modern tractors have change intervals of 400 to 500 hours. Most modern
diesel cars have change intervals of 10,000 miles to 20,000 miles while the
trend is towards 20,000 to 30,000 miles in new generation engines. Diesels
make up to 50% of the European car market and these engines are therefore
somewhat common.

Huw


  #45  
Old April 23rd 05, 11:05 PM
Huw
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"John S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I ran a Volvo (Audi built) diesel for over 200k miles using Rotella
> with no problems. Yes, diesel does have "some" lubricating properties,
> of most use in the injection system. It won't do much to offset the
> carbon and other residue buildup in the motor oil. I don't know what
> the reservior on your tractors is, but I would bet that it exceeds the
> 6 to 7 quarts seem in most small car diesels. Add to that a filter
> with a good deal bigger surface area and I can see where you could run
> 5k miles between changes.
>


These things are 1980's technology indirect injection engines which are
particularly harsh on the oil. 5000 miles is the accepted service interval
for these. Contrast that with modern direct injection units running the
mandatory ultra low sulphur diesel fuel which is the only fuel available in
most of Western Europe.

Huw


  #46  
Old April 23rd 05, 11:06 PM
Huw
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"y_p_w" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> John S. wrote:
>> I ran a Volvo (Audi built) diesel for over 200k miles using Rotella
>> with no problems. Yes, diesel does have "some" lubricating
>> properties, of most use in the injection system. It won't do much to
>> offset the carbon and other residue buildup in the motor oil. I
>> don't know what the reservior on your tractors is, but I would bet
>> that it exceeds the 6 to 7 quarts seem in most small car diesels.

> Add
>> to that a filter with a good deal bigger surface area and I can see
>> where you could run 5k miles between changes.

>
> The following site says that Peterbilt's standard oil change includes
> up to 44 quarts of oil (Chevron Delo 400 or similar). A Caterpillar
> C15 (inline-6) has a displacement of 15 litres and an oil change
> capacity
> of over 40 quarts. OTOH - power per displacement isn't too high on
> these diesel engines either.


However, the torque output is massive.

Huw

>
> What does help are the soot control additives found in heavy-duty
> diesel oils.
>



  #47  
Old April 23rd 05, 11:23 PM
Huw
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"John S." > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare service
> schedules for diesel engines used in passenger cars and large
> commercial and/or stationary applications.
>


Actually you can, but sometimes the comparison may not always be valid.
However, you can compare a 4.0 Toyota engine with a 4.0 Caterpillar engine
for instance. The modern version of both contain about the same amount of
oil and the Toyota has 10,000 mile service intervals while the Perkins has
500 hour intervals. Both use conventional spin on filters and both specify
API CH4 oil. Both are direct injection engines with high pressure Bosch VP33
electronic high pressure rotary pumps feeding conventional injectors, so
neither are state of the art. The Perkins/Cat outputs 125hp but over 400Nm
torque but the Toyota 200hp with rather less torque, I don't remember how
much exactly.

Now my average speed has been proven to be remarkably consistent over an
extended period over the years at a slow sounding 33mph, so if you multiply
this by 500 hours, what do you get. Hang on while I find a calculator.......
Yes, around 16500 miles. So the Toyota is rather conservative.
The fact is that some of those more modern car engines have longer service
intervals than heavy duty commercial engines. Although again, some of the
more modern heavy duty diesels have monitored change intervals of up to
100,000 miles. Although car service intervals are increasing, the State Of
The Art have some way to go to match SOTA truck engines.

Huw


  #48  
Old April 23rd 05, 11:40 PM
TCS
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:58:18 +0100, Huw <> wrote:

>"John S." > wrote in message
roups.com...
>> Don't forget that car manuafcturers are playing a numbers game...they
>> want to keep the widely used but largely useless Annual Cost of
>> Maintenance number as low as possible. The cost of an engine wearing
>> out after 100,000 miles is not part of that equation. Unless the
>> filter was changed very frequently I could not imagine running a diesel
>> much more than 4,000 between oil changes. The internal stresses are
>> much higher than with a gasoline engine and it is a fundamentally dirty
>> design.
>>


>Modern VW and European GM diesel engines can have service intervals of up to
>30,000 miles while their petrol counterparts have only 20,000 mile
>intervals, so go figure.


>Huw



  #49  
Old April 23rd 05, 11:41 PM
Huw
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"Frank" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Edward Strauss wrote:
>> But what do you really expect from Internet Experts other than

> opinion,
>> arguments, and theory??

>
> Quoting myself: "I'd be interested in hearing real-life stores from
> people who have actually gone 10,000+ miles between changes."
> Opinions, arguments, and theories are incredibly easy to find, but
> they're seldom backed up with personal experience. I was hoping for
> people who have actually done 150,000+ miles going 12,000 miles plus
> between changes. Experiences, both good and bad, will help me make my
> decision. Right now, I'm inclined to say with my 6000 mile changes
> with 5w30. An oil change every three months isn't that bad.
>


My friend sold an Audi Allroad Diesel last Fall with nearly 200,000 miles on
it. The engine was as good as new as far as we could tell but the auto box
was playing up, otherwise he would have kept it for a quarter million or
more.
The car had been serviced every 20,000 miles and never over about 22,000
miles even with pressure of work. It had done this in under three years. No
doubt if he had been a more 'normal' driver, the services would have been
flagged up at a lower mileage, perhaps as low as 15000 miles on this car.
He now runs a BMW 5 series diesel which needs to be serviced at a
disappointing 15k to 16k miles.

Huw



  #50  
Old April 24th 05, 06:28 PM
TCS
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:41:19 +0100, Huw <> wrote:
>My friend sold an Audi Allroad Diesel last Fall with nearly 200,000 miles on
>it. The engine was as good as new as far as we could tell but the auto box
>was playing up, otherwise he would have kept it for a quarter million or
>more.


big
****ing
deal.

If it was 400,000 miles, I'd be impressed. How the body doing? Drivetrain?
Got less than 2" of play in the steering?


>The car had been serviced every 20,000 miles and never over about 22,000
>miles even with pressure of work. It had done this in under three years. No
>doubt if he had been a more 'normal' driver, the services would have been
>flagged up at a lower mileage, perhaps as low as 15000 miles on this car.
>He now runs a BMW 5 series diesel which needs to be serviced at a
>disappointing 15k to 16k miles.


>Huw




 




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