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Auto insurance ripoff by GEICO



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 22nd 05, 05:15 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Insurance companies are completely evil. Play serious hardball.
Threaten to sue. Get 3rd party estimates of your car's value and wave
it in their faces. If you have all service records, use those too.
Prove your car was nicer than any other of that model on the road, and
therefore "book value" does not apply. Just because it standard
"industry practice," doesn't mean you have to go down without a fight.

This will not be easy, and insurance companies will always try to screw
you. The only reliable way around this that I have found is to own a
reliable older ride, that's cheap to repair and operate. Carry
liability only (a decently high amount, because state minimums will
hardly cover most family cars these days) and walk away from it if
there's an accident. You'll pay less property taxes and not have to
worry about where you park it. This works great, if you're capable of
seeing a car as only a transportation appliance. I like to always own
two cars. Something new and nice for occasional fun use, and a beater
to take to Walmart or to drive at rush hour when accidents are more
frequent. This costs $$$, but works for me.

-beaumon

Ads
  #12  
Old April 22nd 05, 05:17 AM
Steven O.
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Okay, you say: "If the accident is totally not your fault, you can
deal with the other person's insurance and if it's a reputable
company, they will cut you a check."

Well, in this case, I am totally not at fault, but the other guy's
insurance company is the same as my own, GEICO.

So, let's say the other guy had been insured through Allstate. Same
deal, my car is worth a bit less than $2000, the estimated cost of
repair is over $2000. But now, my insurance company, GEICO, would be
collecting from Allstate to get the money to pay for my car repair.
Would GEICO still be telling me: "No, we are not going to collect
that money from Allstate, even though they are the insurer for the
responsible party, because the repair costs more than your car is
worth?"

Or, on the other hand, am I getting stiffed precisely because there is
a conflict of interest -- my insurer is the same as the other guy's
insurer, so my insurer simply doesn't want to pay what they owe me,
because it still really comes out of their pocket?

Steve O.



On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:08:44 -0500, Mark Anderson
> wrote:

>Word to the wise: Never buy collision insurance on a $2000 car. I stop
>collision once my car goes below $8000. It's basically not worth it if
>you determine the odds of you totalling the car multiplied by your yearly
>premiums. There is a reason insurance is such a profitable industry,
>it's legalized gambling and the insurance companies are the house. If
>you get in an accident without collision you're much better off using
>your saved premiums to pay off whatever damage there is. If the accident
>is totally not your fault, you can deal with the other person's insurance
>and if it's a reputable company, they will cut you a check. Someone rear
>ended me on my motorcycle that wasn't insured for collision and the other
>guy's insurance company, State Farm, were more than happy to cut me a
>check for the entire value of the bike.
>
>As for liability, that's a different issue in that those costs can go
>real high. Insurance should only be purchased for catastrophic events.
>You should not buy insurance with the expectation to nickle and dime the
>insurance company. And $2000 is a relatively minor loss, not worth
>paying to protect.
>



"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
http://www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
  #13  
Old April 22nd 05, 05:40 AM
Furious George
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Posts: n/a
Default


Steven O. wrote:
> Okay, you say: "If the accident is totally not your fault, you can
> deal with the other person's insurance and if it's a reputable
> company, they will cut you a check."
>
> Well, in this case, I am totally not at fault, but the other guy's
> insurance company is the same as my own, GEICO.
>
> So, let's say the other guy had been insured through Allstate. Same
> deal, my car is worth a bit less than $2000, the estimated cost of
> repair is over $2000. But now, my insurance company, GEICO, would be
> collecting from Allstate to get the money to pay for my car repair.
> Would GEICO still be telling me: "No, we are not going to collect
> that money from Allstate, even though they are the insurer for the
> responsible party, because the repair costs more than your car is
> worth?"


You are misunderstanding. If you didn't carry collision insurance, you
would probably have saved more than $2,000 by now (from not paying
premiums). Your insurer would not owe you anything, so you would have
to collect directly from the other insurer. If they are reputable,
they will cut you a check promptly. If they are not reputable or you
were at fault, you'd still be better off.

>
> Or, on the other hand, am I getting stiffed precisely because there

is
> a conflict of interest -- my insurer is the same as the other guy's
> insurer, so my insurer simply doesn't want to pay what they owe me,
> because it still really comes out of their pocket?
>
> Steve O.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:08:44 -0500, Mark Anderson
> > wrote:
>
> >Word to the wise: Never buy collision insurance on a $2000 car. I

stop
> >collision once my car goes below $8000. It's basically not worth it

if
> >you determine the odds of you totalling the car multiplied by your

yearly
> >premiums. There is a reason insurance is such a profitable

industry,
> >it's legalized gambling and the insurance companies are the house.

If
> >you get in an accident without collision you're much better off

using
> >your saved premiums to pay off whatever damage there is. If the

accident
> >is totally not your fault, you can deal with the other person's

insurance
> >and if it's a reputable company, they will cut you a check. Someone

rear
> >ended me on my motorcycle that wasn't insured for collision and the

other
> >guy's insurance company, State Farm, were more than happy to cut me

a
> >check for the entire value of the bike.
> >
> >As for liability, that's a different issue in that those costs can

go
> >real high. Insurance should only be purchased for catastrophic

events.
> >You should not buy insurance with the expectation to nickle and dime

the
> >insurance company. And $2000 is a relatively minor loss, not worth
> >paying to protect.
> >

>
>
> "Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college

that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
> http://www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com


  #14  
Old April 22nd 05, 05:45 AM
George Grapman
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Posts: n/a
Default

Furious George wrote:
> Steven O. wrote:
>
>>Okay, you say: "If the accident is totally not your fault, you can
>>deal with the other person's insurance and if it's a reputable
>>company, they will cut you a check."
>>
>>Well, in this case, I am totally not at fault, but the other guy's
>>insurance company is the same as my own, GEICO.
>>
>>So, let's say the other guy had been insured through Allstate. Same
>>deal, my car is worth a bit less than $2000, the estimated cost of
>>repair is over $2000. But now, my insurance company, GEICO, would be
>>collecting from Allstate to get the money to pay for my car repair.
>>Would GEICO still be telling me: "No, we are not going to collect
>>that money from Allstate, even though they are the insurer for the
>>responsible party, because the repair costs more than your car is
>>worth?"

>
>
> You are misunderstanding. If you didn't carry collision insurance, you
> would probably have saved more than $2,000 by now (from not paying
> premiums). Your insurer would not owe you anything, so you would have
> to collect directly from the other insurer. If they are reputable,
> they will cut you a check promptly. If they are not reputable or you
> were at fault, you'd still be better off.
>
>

If the care is financed you have to carry collision.


--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
  #15  
Old April 22nd 05, 05:49 AM
Sgt. Sausage
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Default

"Steven O." > wrote in message
...

Woaa dude! What rock did you crawl out from under.

This is the way it's worked my entire life.

> First of all, I'm not sure if it is entirely fair of me to single out
> GEICO.


It's not. They all work this way.

[snip]

> 1. I have an older car (about 10 years old), and the book value is
> (according to GEICO) about $2000. GEICO also estimates the cost of
> the repair about a bit over $2000. They say they will not pay for the
> repairs, if the repairs cost more than the cost of the car. They have
> referred to my car as a "total loss", or something to that effect,
> even though in fact the car still runs well and could probably go for
> another five or ten years. (I maintain the car well.)


All they owe you is what it's worth. If it's worth 2K, that's
what they'll pay.

Your options? (a) Hire what's known as a "Public Adjuster" to take
a look at your vehicle and represent *your* interests with respect
to the true value of the car. This will cost you money though. (b)
file a suit against GEICO. You'll likely be awarded the $2K they
were going to originally offer you (give or take), and you'll be
out a lot of time, money, and frustration after running around
the courts for a year or three. Meanwhile, you have no car and
no money.


> So, First Question: Does this happen with other insurance companies,
> that they will not pay for repairs if the estimated repair costs are
> more than than the estimated value of the car?


Usually, it's worse than that. They'll "total" the car if the
repair costs get around 85% (or higher) of the value of the
car. Some carriers it's more, some it's less.

It basically works like this -- even completely totalled,
you car has some intrinsic value. The carcass can be sold
as salvage and stripped down for parts. They'll usually
wholesale it at auction to a local parts shop/junkyard.

Looking at it that way, they pay you your two grand, and
make back $300 (15% * 2000). Their total costs on the
vehicle -- $1700.

If the repairs are less than $1700 -- say maybe $1500 --
then which is cheaper for them? Of course! Repair it.

If the repairs are more than $1700 -- say maybe $1900,
then which is cheaper for them? Of course ! Buy your
car from you for what it's worth, collect the money
from salvage, and their total costs are $1700, not the
$1900 it would have cost to repair.

Make sense?


> If this is routine, is it even possible to purchase a rider on
> insurance which says, in essence: "Even when the value of my car
> drops, you will guarentee to cover the repair costs, up to $X? (Where
> $X might be, say, $10,000.)


I've never seen any such beast. I don't believe anybody
sells a product like that.


> 2. Now, GEICO will pay for what they say is the replacement value of
> the car, which I can then spend on whatever I want (such as, as much
> repairs as that will cover). However, GEICO has also told me that:
> (a) I need to bring in my title to my car, for them to make a copy of
> that. And...


Usually, if the carrier deems it a "total loss" -- at least in
my state (OH), you arent' just bringing in the title for a copy.
The title must be converted to what's called a "salvage title".
It then becomes illegal to drive in the state unless/until it
has passed a "roadworthy" inspection and deemed safe to drive
by the State.

Also, it's customary to *not* pay you what they would have
gotten from auctioning for salvage. e.g., in the example
above, they'd pay you $2,000 and they get to keep the vehicle
and collect the salvage OR you keep the vehicle and they
pay you $1700.

> (b) I'll have to "sign something" before they will give me the check.
> And...


Yep. A lot of times it's even printed on the check.
You are accepting payment and agreeing not to sue
anyone. Tit for Tat.

It's likely you'll be signing authorization for
them to go after the other guy. You'll want to look
up a fancy legal term they call "subrogation"

> (c) After accepting this check, they will no longer provide collision
> coverage for the car at all. (I can still get liability coverage.)


Because it's essentially worth nothing. A "rolling total" with
a salvage title. They've already paid for it once, they're not
going to buy it again. It's been "totalled", and therefore, in
a legal sense, worth nothing, so there's nothing to insure.


> Second Question: What's up with all this -- the copy of the title to
> my car, and the "something" they will make me sign, and dropping my
> collision coverage? Would other insurance companies do the same
> thing?


Ayup. That's the way they work. It's normal. Has been for
at least the 20 years I've been driving.

If you actually take the time to understand what's happening,
everything is legit, you're not being cheated, and all is well.

If you don't believe so, then hook up with your state insurance
commissioner. I'm sure there's someone in their office that can
explain all this mess in a way that makes sense.


> 3. The car in front of me was a very, very expensive car. Although
> the damage was minimal, the bumper on that thing could cost $100,000.
> (Well, not that much, but a lot.) On the other hand, the bozo who
> caused the collision (the one who hit me from behind) is apparently
> not rich, and has about $10,000 of coverage for other people's cars.
> So, GEICO is now saying they will not pay anything until they first
> make sure that his $10,000 coverage will cover both the check they
> write for me, and the check they write to the guy in front of me (the
> guy with the fancy car that I was pushed into).


Ayup. If it's not enough, they will settle the thing on
a "pro rata" basis. Meaning that you will get a percentage
of the total coverage equal to your percentage ownership in
the value of the two cars combined. In plain English, this
means if your car is worth 1/20th of the other car, then you
will get 1/20th of the poor sod's (ridiculously low) limits
of coverage.

You're lucky he had $10K of coverage. In my state, the
legal minimum limit on property damage is $7,500. This
is criminally insane in this day and age when folks don't
think twice about buying a $40,000 vehicle.

> Third Question: Can GEICO withhold payment -- even though all parties
> have already admitted I'm not at fault -- because the guy who caused
> the accident might not have enough coverage?


Depends on the type of policy you have. Your option
is to sue the guy and take him and his insurance carrier
to court. The judge will give you a "pro rata" judgement
as outlined above for his insurance company to pay, and
any remainder will be a judgement against the other driver,
as an individual. Good luck collecting. If he couldn't
afford decent insurance coverage, it's highly likely
he has no assets for you to seize to collect your judgement.

He's what they call "judgement proof".

In my state, we have (or used to -- they've been changing
the laws a lot these days) something called "Under-Insured"
coverage. It's basically extra coverage that *you* pay for
to cover situations like this. Where the other guy is under
insured, and has no assets you can take as payment. It's
****ty that one has to buy something like this, but you've
got to CYA with your own arse. The other guy certainly ain't
looking out for your butt.


> Bottom line, I've paid GEICO good money for many years, never had an
> accident, and now when I finally need them, they are basically saying,
> "Our policies, plus our number crunching on your car and your
> accident, boil down to 'Get Lost'."


Read you policy document. They are contractually bound
to honor that. Have you ever read it before?

Didn't think so.


> Two final notes



> (A) All three parties involved are insured by GEICO, yet the GEICO
> people are acting as adversaries to each other, essentially
> representing (or failing to represent) their clients as if they were
> separate companies.


as well they *should*. There'd be a lot of funky stuff
going on if they didn't. Think of the possibilities for
corruption if they didn't do it this way.

> If common sense prevailed here,


Common sense? In the legal arena? Are you kidding me?

> you would think
> that the fact that all three parties have poured money into GEICO
> would make them realize the fairness of simply paying out what they
> owe -- taking care of all their customers.


The fact of the matter is, you paid your money to be
covered under the terms of your policy contract. If you're
not happy about it now, maybe you should have read your
policy to find out exactly what their obligations were
for taking your hard-earned money.

"what they owe" is defined in the policy, not by what
you think they owe.

> You would also think one
> person could oversee the entire process,


There's no way in *hell* you could convince me that
this would be a good idea.

Think about how that one person could control the
whole she-bang, manipulate all parties involved as
the sole source of control -- the opportunities for
fraud and corruption would be too good for the
claims manager to pass up.

No way, buddy. You think you want a single person
in control, but you really don't want that. It would
be bad news for all involved.

> but instead they got three
> people dickering with each other.


as well they should.

> (B) I asked GEICO if there was any person or committee within the
> company I could appeal to. The answer was, "Here is the phone number
> for the state insurance commissioner."


Ayup. That's about your only option. Chances are
that they are doing things "by the book", and any
appeal to the commissioner would yeild diddley-squat.

> GEICO: "We're here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year...
> to tell you to go jump in a lake."


Read your policy next time.

> Comments, insight, and feedback are much appreciated. Maybe a final
> question: Is there any chance of my getting anywhere if I bring in my
> attorney? I don't want to spend more valuable money on the attorney,
> if it won't change anything.


You really need to learn how this all works. I would suggest
that you start by reading and *understanding* your policy.

You won't be changing anything.


  #16  
Old April 22nd 05, 06:11 AM
Furious George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


George Grapman wrote:
> Furious George wrote:
> > Steven O. wrote:
> >
> >>Okay, you say: "If the accident is totally not your fault, you can
> >>deal with the other person's insurance and if it's a reputable
> >>company, they will cut you a check."
> >>
> >>Well, in this case, I am totally not at fault, but the other guy's
> >>insurance company is the same as my own, GEICO.
> >>
> >>So, let's say the other guy had been insured through Allstate.

Same
> >>deal, my car is worth a bit less than $2000, the estimated cost of
> >>repair is over $2000. But now, my insurance company, GEICO, would

be
> >>collecting from Allstate to get the money to pay for my car repair.
> >>Would GEICO still be telling me: "No, we are not going to collect
> >>that money from Allstate, even though they are the insurer for the
> >>responsible party, because the repair costs more than your car is
> >>worth?"

> >
> >
> > You are misunderstanding. If you didn't carry collision insurance,

you
> > would probably have saved more than $2,000 by now (from not paying
> > premiums). Your insurer would not owe you anything, so you would

have
> > to collect directly from the other insurer. If they are reputable,
> > they will cut you a check promptly. If they are not reputable or

you
> > were at fault, you'd still be better off.
> >
> >

> If the care is financed you have to carry collision.


Correct. If the car is financed, then you will have to jump through
the bank's hoops.

However, who finances a 10+ year old car worth less than $2,000?

>
>
> --
> To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell


  #17  
Old April 22nd 05, 06:12 AM
George Grapman
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Posts: n/a
Default

Furious George wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>
>>Furious George wrote:
>>
>>>Steven O. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, you say: "If the accident is totally not your fault, you can
>>>>deal with the other person's insurance and if it's a reputable
>>>>company, they will cut you a check."
>>>>
>>>>Well, in this case, I am totally not at fault, but the other guy's
>>>>insurance company is the same as my own, GEICO.
>>>>
>>>>So, let's say the other guy had been insured through Allstate.

>
> Same
>
>>>>deal, my car is worth a bit less than $2000, the estimated cost of
>>>>repair is over $2000. But now, my insurance company, GEICO, would

>
> be
>
>>>>collecting from Allstate to get the money to pay for my car repair.
>>>>Would GEICO still be telling me: "No, we are not going to collect
>>>>that money from Allstate, even though they are the insurer for the
>>>>responsible party, because the repair costs more than your car is
>>>>worth?"
>>>
>>>
>>>You are misunderstanding. If you didn't carry collision insurance,

>
> you
>
>>>would probably have saved more than $2,000 by now (from not paying
>>>premiums). Your insurer would not owe you anything, so you would

>
> have
>
>>>to collect directly from the other insurer. If they are reputable,
>>>they will cut you a check promptly. If they are not reputable or

>
> you
>
>>>were at fault, you'd still be better off.
>>>
>>>

>>
>> If the care is financed you have to carry collision.

>
>
> Correct. If the car is financed, then you will have to jump through
> the bank's hoops.
>
> However, who finances a 10+ year old car worth less than $2,000?



I missed that part of the post.

>
>
>>
>>--
>> To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell

>
>



--
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  #18  
Old April 22nd 05, 07:02 AM
quietguy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"Steven O." wrote:

> ....
>
> 1. I have an older car (about 10 years old), and the book value is
> (according to GEICO) about $2000. GEICO also estimates the cost of
> the repair about a bit over $2000. They say they will not pay for the
> repairs, if the repairs cost more than the cost of the car. They have
> referred to my car as a "total loss", or something to that effect,
> even though in fact the car still runs well and could probably go for
> another five or ten years. (I maintain the car well.)
>
> So, First Question: Does this happen with other insurance companies,
> that they will not pay for repairs if the estimated repair costs are
> more than than the estimated value of the car?


Look at your policy - is it an 'agreed value' or a 'market value'
policy. You made a choice when you took out the policy so you will get
the 'benefit' of that choice. If it is a write off you ge the agree
value, or if it is a market value policy that is the what you will get
when it is written off.

You cannot expect to get more than either the market value or the agreed
value

>
>
> If this is routine, is it even possible to purchase a rider on
> insurance which says, in essence: "Even when the value of my car
> drops, you will guarentee to cover the repair costs, up to $X? (Where
> $X might be, say, $10,000.)


That is what an agreed value policy covers

>
>
> 2. Now, GEICO will pay for what they say is the replacement value of
> the car, which I can then spend on whatever I want (such as, as much
> repairs as that will cover). However, GEICO has also told me that:
> (a) I need to bring in my title to my car, for them to make a copy of
> that. And...
> (b) I'll have to "sign something" before they will give me the check.
> And...
> (c) After accepting this check, they will no longer provide collision
> coverage for the car at all. (I can still get liability coverage.)
>
> Second Question: What's up with all this -- the copy of the title to
> my car, and the "something" they will make me sign, and dropping my
> collision coverage? Would other insurance companies do the same
> thing?


Once they write off the car the policy comes to an end - it is finished -
kaput - no longer valid etc

>


David


  #19  
Old April 22nd 05, 07:16 AM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Sgt. Sausage > wrote in message
...
> "Steven O." > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Woaa dude! What rock did you crawl out from under.
>
> This is the way it's worked my entire life.
>
>> First of all, I'm not sure if it is entirely fair of me to single out
>> GEICO.

>
> It's not. They all work this way.
>
> [snip]
>
>> 1. I have an older car (about 10 years old), and the book value is
>> (according to GEICO) about $2000. GEICO also estimates the cost of
>> the repair about a bit over $2000. They say they will not pay for the
>> repairs, if the repairs cost more than the cost of the car. They have
>> referred to my car as a "total loss", or something to that effect,
>> even though in fact the car still runs well and could probably go for
>> another five or ten years. (I maintain the car well.)

>
> All they owe you is what it's worth. If it's worth 2K, that's
> what they'll pay.
>
> Your options? (a) Hire what's known as a "Public Adjuster" to take
> a look at your vehicle and represent *your* interests with respect
> to the true value of the car. This will cost you money though. (b)
> file a suit against GEICO. You'll likely be awarded the $2K they
> were going to originally offer you (give or take), and you'll be
> out a lot of time, money, and frustration after running around
> the courts for a year or three. Meanwhile, you have no car and
> no money.
>
>
>> So, First Question: Does this happen with other insurance companies,
>> that they will not pay for repairs if the estimated repair costs are
>> more than than the estimated value of the car?

>
> Usually, it's worse than that. They'll "total" the car if the
> repair costs get around 85% (or higher) of the value of the
> car. Some carriers it's more, some it's less.
>
> It basically works like this -- even completely totalled,
> you car has some intrinsic value. The carcass can be sold
> as salvage and stripped down for parts. They'll usually
> wholesale it at auction to a local parts shop/junkyard.
>
> Looking at it that way, they pay you your two grand, and
> make back $300 (15% * 2000). Their total costs on the
> vehicle -- $1700.
>
> If the repairs are less than $1700 -- say maybe $1500 --
> then which is cheaper for them? Of course! Repair it.
>
> If the repairs are more than $1700 -- say maybe $1900,
> then which is cheaper for them? Of course ! Buy your
> car from you for what it's worth, collect the money
> from salvage, and their total costs are $1700, not the
> $1900 it would have cost to repair.
>
> Make sense?
>
>
>> If this is routine, is it even possible to purchase a rider on
>> insurance which says, in essence: "Even when the value of my car
>> drops, you will guarentee to cover the repair costs, up to $X? (Where
>> $X might be, say, $10,000.)

>
> I've never seen any such beast. I don't believe anybody
> sells a product like that.


It is possible to buy it in special situations, like say a
restored classic or one that was owned by Elvis etc.

>> 2. Now, GEICO will pay for what they say is the replacement value of
>> the car, which I can then spend on whatever I want (such as, as much
>> repairs as that will cover). However, GEICO has also told me that:
>> (a) I need to bring in my title to my car, for them to make a copy of
>> that. And...

>
> Usually, if the carrier deems it a "total loss" -- at least in
> my state (OH), you arent' just bringing in the title for a copy.
> The title must be converted to what's called a "salvage title".
> It then becomes illegal to drive in the state unless/until it
> has passed a "roadworthy" inspection and deemed safe to drive
> by the State.
>
> Also, it's customary to *not* pay you what they would have
> gotten from auctioning for salvage. e.g., in the example
> above, they'd pay you $2,000 and they get to keep the vehicle
> and collect the salvage OR you keep the vehicle and they
> pay you $1700.
>
>> (b) I'll have to "sign something" before they will give me the check.
>> And...

>
> Yep. A lot of times it's even printed on the check.
> You are accepting payment and agreeing not to sue
> anyone. Tit for Tat.
>
> It's likely you'll be signing authorization for
> them to go after the other guy. You'll want to look
> up a fancy legal term they call "subrogation"
>
>> (c) After accepting this check, they will no longer provide collision
>> coverage for the car at all. (I can still get liability coverage.)

>
> Because it's essentially worth nothing. A "rolling total" with
> a salvage title. They've already paid for it once, they're not
> going to buy it again. It's been "totalled", and therefore, in
> a legal sense, worth nothing, so there's nothing to insure.
>
>
>> Second Question: What's up with all this -- the copy of the title to
>> my car, and the "something" they will make me sign, and dropping my
>> collision coverage? Would other insurance companies do the same
>> thing?

>
> Ayup. That's the way they work. It's normal. Has been for
> at least the 20 years I've been driving.
>
> If you actually take the time to understand what's happening,
> everything is legit, you're not being cheated, and all is well.
>
> If you don't believe so, then hook up with your state insurance
> commissioner. I'm sure there's someone in their office that can
> explain all this mess in a way that makes sense.
>
>
>> 3. The car in front of me was a very, very expensive car. Although
>> the damage was minimal, the bumper on that thing could cost $100,000.
>> (Well, not that much, but a lot.) On the other hand, the bozo who
>> caused the collision (the one who hit me from behind) is apparently
>> not rich, and has about $10,000 of coverage for other people's cars.
>> So, GEICO is now saying they will not pay anything until they first
>> make sure that his $10,000 coverage will cover both the check they
>> write for me, and the check they write to the guy in front of me (the
>> guy with the fancy car that I was pushed into).

>
> Ayup. If it's not enough, they will settle the thing on
> a "pro rata" basis. Meaning that you will get a percentage
> of the total coverage equal to your percentage ownership in
> the value of the two cars combined. In plain English, this
> means if your car is worth 1/20th of the other car, then you
> will get 1/20th of the poor sod's (ridiculously low) limits
> of coverage.
>
> You're lucky he had $10K of coverage. In my state, the
> legal minimum limit on property damage is $7,500. This
> is criminally insane in this day and age when folks don't
> think twice about buying a $40,000 vehicle.
>
>> Third Question: Can GEICO withhold payment -- even though all parties
>> have already admitted I'm not at fault -- because the guy who caused
>> the accident might not have enough coverage?

>
> Depends on the type of policy you have. Your option
> is to sue the guy and take him and his insurance carrier
> to court. The judge will give you a "pro rata" judgement
> as outlined above for his insurance company to pay, and
> any remainder will be a judgement against the other driver,
> as an individual. Good luck collecting. If he couldn't
> afford decent insurance coverage, it's highly likely
> he has no assets for you to seize to collect your judgement.
>
> He's what they call "judgement proof".
>
> In my state, we have (or used to -- they've been changing
> the laws a lot these days) something called "Under-Insured"
> coverage. It's basically extra coverage that *you* pay for
> to cover situations like this. Where the other guy is under
> insured, and has no assets you can take as payment. It's
> ****ty that one has to buy something like this, but you've
> got to CYA with your own arse. The other guy certainly ain't
> looking out for your butt.
>
>
>> Bottom line, I've paid GEICO good money for many years, never had an
>> accident, and now when I finally need them, they are basically saying,
>> "Our policies, plus our number crunching on your car and your
>> accident, boil down to 'Get Lost'."

>
> Read you policy document. They are contractually bound
> to honor that. Have you ever read it before?
>
> Didn't think so.
>
>
>> Two final notes

>
>
>> (A) All three parties involved are insured by GEICO, yet the GEICO
>> people are acting as adversaries to each other, essentially
>> representing (or failing to represent) their clients as if they were
>> separate companies.

>
> as well they *should*. There'd be a lot of funky stuff
> going on if they didn't. Think of the possibilities for
> corruption if they didn't do it this way.
>
>> If common sense prevailed here,

>
> Common sense? In the legal arena? Are you kidding me?
>
>> you would think
>> that the fact that all three parties have poured money into GEICO
>> would make them realize the fairness of simply paying out what they
>> owe -- taking care of all their customers.

>
> The fact of the matter is, you paid your money to be
> covered under the terms of your policy contract. If you're
> not happy about it now, maybe you should have read your
> policy to find out exactly what their obligations were
> for taking your hard-earned money.
>
> "what they owe" is defined in the policy, not by what
> you think they owe.
>
>> You would also think one
>> person could oversee the entire process,

>
> There's no way in *hell* you could convince me that
> this would be a good idea.
>
> Think about how that one person could control the
> whole she-bang, manipulate all parties involved as
> the sole source of control -- the opportunities for
> fraud and corruption would be too good for the
> claims manager to pass up.
>
> No way, buddy. You think you want a single person
> in control, but you really don't want that. It would
> be bad news for all involved.
>
>> but instead they got three
>> people dickering with each other.

>
> as well they should.
>
>> (B) I asked GEICO if there was any person or committee within the
>> company I could appeal to. The answer was, "Here is the phone number
>> for the state insurance commissioner."

>
> Ayup. That's about your only option. Chances are
> that they are doing things "by the book", and any
> appeal to the commissioner would yeild diddley-squat.
>
>> GEICO: "We're here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year...
>> to tell you to go jump in a lake."

>
> Read your policy next time.
>
>> Comments, insight, and feedback are much appreciated. Maybe a final
>> question: Is there any chance of my getting anywhere if I bring in my
>> attorney? I don't want to spend more valuable money on the attorney,
>> if it won't change anything.

>
> You really need to learn how this all works. I would suggest
> that you start by reading and *understanding* your policy.
>
> You won't be changing anything.
>



  #20  
Old April 22nd 05, 07:26 AM
Magnulus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Rod Speed" > wrote in message
...
> They're essentially claiming that you can buy another car
> for $2K which would be as good as the wreck pre accident.


Which is often bull****. It doesn't factor in the non-market value of the
car to the individual. Say you had a car in good condition, and all the
other cars out there were badly worn, for instance. Or the car had some
performance mods installed?


 




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