Horn malfunction

I need help with a horn malfunction on a 1996 SW1. This car is a base model
with only the factory cruise control option. We purchased the car new and
it now has 230,000 km. There is no history of electrical problems and the
car has not been wet or flooded, the car is not garaged.

The first indication of a problem was the horn sounding while the car was
sitting in our driveway after not being started for two days. There was no
obvious reason for the horn to sound and it stopped by itself, we did not
even think it was our car and only today do we suspect it was our car as
there were no other cars nearby. The next day my wife started the car
normally and drove about 40 miles before the horn turned on without touching
the horn buttons. The cruise control was turned off at the time. She
stopped the car and turned the ignition off but the horn continued for a
minute or so, she tried to press the horn buttons several times to no
result, the horn then ceased by itself. This behavior repeated several
times while she drove the car home.

I am a licensed mechanic, and have done the usual trouble shooting. The
horn buttons appear undamaged and feel like they are operating properly. I
could not find the location of a horn relay. Like most intermittent
electrical faults it won' t happen when a mechanic is near. I do not have
the real (expensive) Saturn shop manuals and neither the Chiltons or the
Haynes manuals have wiring diagrams that show the horn circuit properly.
They do seem to indicate that there may be a connection between the horn and
cruise circuits but I cannot verify this and I suspect that since they are
both mounted on the steering wheel that they both use slip rings in the
steering column. I cannot determine if the air bag also uses these slip
rings.

I was concerned about the possibility of fire or accidental air bag
deployment. In order to reduce the possibility of further damage I have
removed the fuses for the horn, the cruise control and the air bags.

When anything hard to diagnose happens in the winter I always suspect that
the cause is most likely to be cold or freezing related but am at a loss as
to what to do next in order to diagnose the cause of the problem.

If would appreciate anyone's similar experience with problems in the horn or
steering wheel.

"private" > wrote in message
news:6H8Qd.390756$6l.387998@pd7tw2no...
>I need help with a horn malfunction on a 1996 SW1. This car is a base
>model
> with only the factory cruise control option. We purchased the car new and
> it now has 230,000 km. There is no history of electrical problems and the
> car has not been wet or flooded, the car is not garaged.
>
> The first indication of a problem was the horn sounding while the car was
> sitting in our driveway after not being started for two days. There was
> no
> obvious reason for the horn to sound and it stopped by itself, we did not
> even think it was our car and only today do we suspect it was our car as
> there were no other cars nearby. The next day my wife started the car
> normally and drove about 40 miles before the horn turned on without
> touching
> the horn buttons. The cruise control was turned off at the time. She
> stopped the car and turned the ignition off but the horn continued for a
> minute or so, she tried to press the horn buttons several times to no
> result, the horn then ceased by itself. This behavior repeated several
> times while she drove the car home.
>
> I am a licensed mechanic, and have done the usual trouble shooting. The
> horn buttons appear undamaged and feel like they are operating properly.
> I
> could not find the location of a horn relay. Like most intermittent
> electrical faults it won' t happen when a mechanic is near. I do not have
> the real (expensive) Saturn shop manuals and neither the Chiltons or the
> Haynes manuals have wiring diagrams that show the horn circuit properly.
> They do seem to indicate that there may be a connection between the horn
> and
> cruise circuits but I cannot verify this and I suspect that since they are
> both mounted on the steering wheel that they both use slip rings in the
> steering column. I cannot determine if the air bag also uses these slip
> rings.
>
> I was concerned about the possibility of fire or accidental air bag
> deployment. In order to reduce the possibility of further damage I have
> removed the fuses for the horn, the cruise control and the air bags.
>
> When anything hard to diagnose happens in the winter I always suspect that
> the cause is most likely to be cold or freezing related but am at a loss
> as
> to what to do next in order to diagnose the cause of the problem.
>
> If would appreciate anyone's similar experience with problems in the horn
> or
> steering wheel.
>
>
My 97 was part of a horn recall campaign (however it never malfunctioned) -
you might ask your dealer what years were affected and or have your VIN
ready in case they'll run it for you.

> The first indication of a problem was the horn sounding while the car was
> sitting in our driveway after not being started for two days. There was
no
> obvious reason for the horn to sound and it stopped by itself, we did not
> even think it was our car and only today do we suspect it was our car as
> there were no other cars nearby. The next day my wife started the car
> normally and drove about 40 miles before the horn turned on without
touching
> the horn buttons. The cruise control was turned off at the time. She
> stopped the car and turned the ignition off but the horn continued for a
> minute or so, she tried to press the horn buttons several times to no
> result, the horn then ceased by itself. This behavior repeated several
> times while she drove the car home.

If it's anything like my 98 SC2, there are three lines to the factory
horn: Ground, switched-hot, and hot. Presumably the relay is in the horn,
because one of those lines goes hot with the switch, and one is ALWAYS hot.

In any event, one rainy night, my horn started going for no reason. Like
you, I didn't suspect my car for a short while, then when I realized it, I
went down, opened the garage, started the car, drove in, and heard
"BEEEEeeeeeeeee...oop", and the horn was dead. Inspection revealed that
there was some corrosion that was bridging the always-hot and switched-hot
connections.

Instead of replacing it with a factory horn, I got a set of air horns.
They get you much more attention when someone is blindly pulling into your
lane!

steve

"Steve Wolfe" > wrote in message
...
> > The first indication of a problem was the horn sounding while the car
was
> > sitting in our driveway after not being started for two days. There was
> no
> > obvious reason for the horn to sound and it stopped by itself, we did
not
> > even think it was our car and only today do we suspect it was our car as
> > there were no other cars nearby. The next day my wife started the car
> > normally and drove about 40 miles before the horn turned on without
> touching
> > the horn buttons. The cruise control was turned off at the time. She
> > stopped the car and turned the ignition off but the horn continued for a
> > minute or so, she tried to press the horn buttons several times to no
> > result, the horn then ceased by itself. This behavior repeated several
> > times while she drove the car home.
>
> If it's anything like my 98 SC2, there are three lines to the factory
> horn: Ground, switched-hot, and hot. Presumably the relay is in the
horn,
> because one of those lines goes hot with the switch, and one is ALWAYS
hot.
>
> In any event, one rainy night, my horn started going for no reason.
Like
> you, I didn't suspect my car for a short while, then when I realized it, I
> went down, opened the garage, started the car, drove in, and heard
> "BEEEEeeeeeeeee...oop", and the horn was dead. Inspection revealed that
> there was some corrosion that was bridging the always-hot and switched-hot
> connections.
>

Thanks for the reply. I wondered why there were three wires to the horn but
have not disconected the connector to test. Was the corrosion bridging you
speak of
located in the wiring connector at the horn or was it internal in the horn?


> Instead of replacing it with a factory horn, I got a set of air horns.
> They get you much more attention when someone is blindly pulling into your
> lane!
>
> steve
>

When you installed the aftermarket horns did you connect a relay to the
factory wires using the hot and switched hot wires?

"Jonnie Santos" > wrote in message
news:B5fQd.96674$mt.75042@fed1read03...
> "private" > wrote in message
> news:6H8Qd.390756$6l.387998@pd7tw2no...
> >I need help with a horn malfunction on a 1996 SW1. This car is a base
> >model
> > with only the factory cruise control option. We purchased the car new
and
> > it now has 230,000 km. There is no history of electrical problems and
the
> > car has not been wet or flooded, the car is not garaged.
> >
> > The first indication of a problem was the horn sounding while the car
was
> > sitting in our driveway after not being started for two days. There was
> > no
> > obvious reason for the horn to sound and it stopped by itself, we did
not
> > even think it was our car and only today do we suspect it was our car as
> > there were no other cars nearby. The next day my wife started the car
> > normally and drove about 40 miles before the horn turned on without
> > touching
> > the horn buttons. The cruise control was turned off at the time. She
> > stopped the car and turned the ignition off but the horn continued for a
> > minute or so, she tried to press the horn buttons several times to no
> > result, the horn then ceased by itself. This behavior repeated several
> > times while she drove the car home.
> >
> > I am a licensed mechanic, and have done the usual trouble shooting. The
> > horn buttons appear undamaged and feel like they are operating properly.
> > I
> > could not find the location of a horn relay. Like most intermittent
> > electrical faults it won' t happen when a mechanic is near. I do not
have
> > the real (expensive) Saturn shop manuals and neither the Chiltons or the
> > Haynes manuals have wiring diagrams that show the horn circuit properly.
> > They do seem to indicate that there may be a connection between the horn
> > and
> > cruise circuits but I cannot verify this and I suspect that since they
are
> > both mounted on the steering wheel that they both use slip rings in the
> > steering column. I cannot determine if the air bag also uses these slip
> > rings.
> >
> > I was concerned about the possibility of fire or accidental air bag
> > deployment. In order to reduce the possibility of further damage I have
> > removed the fuses for the horn, the cruise control and the air bags.
> >
> > When anything hard to diagnose happens in the winter I always suspect
that
> > the cause is most likely to be cold or freezing related but am at a loss
> > as
> > to what to do next in order to diagnose the cause of the problem.
> >
> > If would appreciate anyone's similar experience with problems in the
horn
> > or
> > steering wheel.
> >
> >
> My 97 was part of a horn recall campaign (however it never
malfunctioned) -
> you might ask your dealer what years were affected and or have your VIN
> ready in case they'll run it for you.
>

Hi Johnny.

I must admit that when dealing with my problem, I thought about your
misfortune from fire and that is one of the reasons I am being so cautious.
Did you ever determine the cause of your fire? I know that steering column
fires are not uncommon but hoped that they were mainly in Fords. Since you
are still here I assume you replaced your car with another Saturn and wonder
what was your choice of replacement. I hope that it is working out ok for
you.

I will check the dealer regarding the recall. Thank you.

> Thanks for the reply. I wondered why there were three wires to the horn
but
> have not disconected the connector to test. Was the corrosion bridging
you
> speak of
> located in the wiring connector at the horn or was it internal in the
horn?

It's been a few years, but believe that it was on the connector, not
internal to the horn.

> When you installed the aftermarket horns did you connect a relay to the
> factory wires using the hot and switched hot wires?

I used a relay, but ran both ground and hot from closer to the battery with
their own fuse, and the switched-hot to trip the relay.

steve

"private" > wrote in message
news:WbqQd.398439$8l.303870@pd7tw1no...
>
> Hi Johnny.
>
> I must admit that when dealing with my problem, I thought about your
> misfortune from fire and that is one of the reasons I am being so
> cautious.
> Did you ever determine the cause of your fire? I know that steering
> column
> fires are not uncommon but hoped that they were mainly in Fords. Since
> you
> are still here I assume you replaced your car with another Saturn and
> wonder
> what was your choice of replacement. I hope that it is working out ok for
> you.
>
> I will check the dealer regarding the recall. Thank you.
>

I don't think Saturns are noted for fires - at least not that I've read.
I'm the odd man out. And nothing official on the cause of the fire that was
ever shared with me - I've given into thinking it was probably a failed Cat
or a stuck open injector that caused the Cat to go super nova and heated
surrounding materials until they caught fire. The car was not engulfed, and
mostly cabin damage - however the cost of repairs exceeded the car's worth.
Of course if I would have called the towing service at the onset of the
problem, the car would be here today (probably). Which reminds me that I
need to buy a fire extinguisher for my new vehicle (thanks). I'm driving a
pickup these days - Saturn doesn't make those... (grin)

"Jonnie Santos" > wrote in message
news:UMIQd.97506$mt.52222@fed1read03...
>
snip

Which reminds me that I
> need to buy a fire extinguisher for my new vehicle (thanks).

good idea for me too.

I'm driving a
> pickup these days - Saturn doesn't make those... (grin)
>
I bet filling up with gas makes you wish you still had a small car. As
someone who drove pickups for many years I do not miss the large fuel costs.
After owning SW1s for nine years I have found that I can do almost
everything with a mini-wagon that I used to think I needed a truck for. I
am amazed as to how much stuff will fit inside or on the detachable roof
rack (with front bumper post rack for long loads)

I am beginning to see some very reasonable prices for used SW1s and would
recommend one to almost anybody as a general purpose vehicle. I would
suggest mounting a removable roof rack. At the very least they are a great
winter car and the money you save can be used for a really nice sports car
for the summer.

Happy trails