SVT for 2005

That's correct. SVT will have no "product" in '05. In fact, it won't
have a "product" through most of '06 either. This was made clear by
Ford/SVT in several different venues . The '07 Mustang SVT Cobra will
be revealed at the NY Auto Show that starts on March 25th, 2005,
although there is supposed to be a press day on the 23rd, I believe.
Target Job 1 is mid '06 for MY '07.

>From what I have heard... they were not expecting the new F150 platform
to weigh as much as it does... now with the RAM SRT10 out... Ford does
not want a half-assed performance truck on the market.

Well, the very first sentence on that site is: "As the Ford Special
Vehicle Team closes the door on 2004 model-year sales, it now turns its
full attention to the work of bringing to market an all-new generation
of high-performance Ford vehicles, beginning with the next SVT Mustang
Cobra." .

Granted, it's not details. However, I just got my SVT Enthusiast and
Hua Thai-Tang provides an editorial that will pretty much make him a
liar if an S197 SVT Mustang doesn't make it to market. Furthermore, the
magazine explicitly states it will provide full coverage of the SVT
Mustang Cobra reveal in NY in it's next issue.

Ford is monolithic enough to stomp on their best marketing and make
their own mouth-pieces look foolish, no doubt. I dunno, though, I am
optomistic .

As for crippled, yeah, that might be kind of fair in some lights.
Here's what I know. The Ford GT project was a monster. A real nasty
one. At about the same time that it was creating GT, SVT was putting
together the SVT Focus, the SVT Lightning on the new F-150 chassis,
plus the S197 SVT Mustang. They got behind mainly because of the effort
involved in Job 1 on the GT and the Focus PLUS pushing the federal
certification of the modified F-150 and Mustang chassis. Added to that
the F-150 tranny they planned to use wasn't holding up to the desired
specific output and, while they do have options for that, they were in
the position of having to re-cert the system late in the process.

For the Mustang, the test mules have been on the road for more than two
years. But there were at least three, and maybe four, different
possible configurations for the power plant and there was a lot of
effort in finding a replacement IRS. The new system is more complicated
and I know that the powertrain control guys had a ton to do to get it
all working with certain configurations (Note: at the last SEMA there
were five supercharger options for the '05 Mustang GT, and I know for a
fact that not one kit was actually ready for market because at that
time tuning was still a problem ). It appears to me, as well, that
Ford wanted mules with several hundred thousand miles on them to back
up some of the decisions. They still didn't decide on the power plant
until last December (2004).

My opinion, pure speculation based on conversations with knowledgable
folks and no real data, is that Ford bit off a huge chunk with the GT
that was far, far bigger than they really want to admit. But it was
mandated that it succeed so it did...and everything else got slipped to
do it.

Joe wrote:
> Does it say when it'll actually get there?

I bet Ford is delaying the release of the Cobra for two years to give
Mustang sales a boost just as interest in the car starts to fade some.
This is what they did with the release of the Bullit, Mach etc. Since
the car has received good press and sales are strong there is really no
reason to release another model that would steal some of the thunder
from the GT. In a couple years they will need the Cobra to give the
Mustang lineup an injection of adrenaline.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 01:55:31 GMT, Joe > puked:

wrote in news:1110383378.429253.26280
:
>
>> That's correct. SVT will have no "product" in '05. In fact, it won't
>> have a "product" through most of '06 either. This was made clear by
>> Ford/SVT in several different venues . The '07 Mustang SVT Cobra
>will
>> be revealed at the NY Auto Show that starts on March 25th, 2005,
>> although there is supposed to be a press day on the 23rd, I believe.
>> Target Job 1 is mid '06 for MY '07.
>
>What a shame. Why in the world is Ford holding up the show until MY
>'07? Are they that crippled that they couldn't get it in showrooms
>for '06? And there's not one single sentence about it on their web
>site. Sounds to me like Ford doesn't want to commit to anything
>regarding the Cobra.
>

If the GTs are selling as well as it sounds, there's no reason to up
the ante at this point. What would they be competing with anyway?

Of course it's just a rumor, but there's talk of a re-release of the
Camaro around '06-'07, so then it would make sense to bring the guns
to the table.

--
lab~rat >:-)
The less you care, the more it doesn't matter.

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>Does it say when it'll actually get there?
>>
>>I bet Ford is delaying the release of the Cobra for two years to
>>give Mustang sales a boost just as interest in the car starts to
>>fade some. This is what they did with the release of the Bullit,
>>Mach etc. Since the car has received good press and sales are
>>strong there is really no reason to release another model that would
>>steal some of the thunder from the GT. In a couple years they will
>>need the Cobra to give the Mustang lineup an injection of
>>adrenaline.
>
>
> Could be, but (a) I don't think the Mustang will need any help with
> sales, and (b) I think the Cobra will sell regardless, as it's got its
> own hardcore audience. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see
> what transpires down the road apiece...

I'm just guessing as to Ford's thinking on the Cobra. Most auto makers
delay the hot rod versions of their cars by several months to a few
years. DC is doing it with the 300C, Chevy with the Z06 (damn I love
that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven more by
marketing than a result of production issues.

The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My guess
is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some potential
buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less expensive GT or
base model. I'm just glad they are still making noise about a new Cobra
considering Ford's financial situation.

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Joe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Does it say when it'll actually get there?
>>>>
>>>>I bet Ford is delaying the release of the Cobra for two years to
>>>>give Mustang sales a boost just as interest in the car starts to
>>>>fade some. This is what they did with the release of the Bullit,
>>>>Mach etc. Since the car has received good press and sales are
>>>>strong there is really no reason to release another model that
>>>>would steal some of the thunder from the GT. In a couple years
>>>>they will need the Cobra to give the Mustang lineup an injection of
>>>>adrenaline.
>>>
>>>
>>>Could be, but (a) I don't think the Mustang will need any help with
>>>sales, and (b) I think the Cobra will sell regardless, as it's got
>>>its own hardcore audience. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to
>>>see what transpires down the road apiece...
>>
>>I'm just guessing as to Ford's thinking on the Cobra. Most auto
>>makers delay the hot rod versions of their cars by several months to
>>a few years. DC is doing it with the 300C, Chevy with the Z06 (damn
>>I love that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven
>>more by marketing than a result of production issues.
>
>
> Agreed, except that Ford's the only maker that doesn't have a release
> date.
>
>
>>The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My
>>guess is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some
>>potential buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less
>>expensive GT or base model. I'm just glad they are still making
>>noise about a new Cobra considering Ford's financial situation.
>
>
> I don't see that Ford's making the noise - it's coming from other
> sources. Ford's not "officially" pushing the new Cobra nearly enough,
> which leads me to believe that they're reserving their commitment to
> it.

I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given
us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really
hasn't done anything to improve the companies overall bottom line. I
just hope the bean counters don't start to get a toe hold in product
development and take them back to mediocre performance cars like the pre
'99 SN95 Mustangs.

> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote:

> I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given
> us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really
> hasn't done anything to improve the companies overall bottom line.

Because they don't build these cars to demand. They build them as
collectables. And unless they can get many times what it cost them to
build, they won't even be a blip on ford's bottom line.

The cars are more or less advertising when built and sold like this, and not
much more. If a cobra isn't going sell a large number of 6 cylinder base
cars then ford will drop it IMO. If ford built these cars to demand maybe
they could add to the bottom line. I don't really want to bid for a
cobra, which is nothing more than the top level mustang configuration to
satisify some dealer's greed. It's not some supercar that they can hand
build only 12 a year. It's a somewhat improved version of a MASS PRODUCED
CAR. 30 years from now we'll know if it's a collectable or not, I'm not
buying a car to put in shrink wrap for 30 years anyway.

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>
>>I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given
>>us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really
>>hasn't done anything to improve the companies overall bottom line.
>
>
> Because they don't build these cars to demand. They build them as
> collectables. And unless they can get many times what it cost them to
> build, they won't even be a blip on ford's bottom line.
>
> The cars are more or less advertising when built and sold like this, and not
> much more. If a cobra isn't going sell a large number of 6 cylinder base
> cars then ford will drop it IMO. If ford built these cars to demand maybe
> they could add to the bottom line. I don't really want to bid for a
> cobra, which is nothing more than the top level mustang configuration to
> satisify some dealer's greed. It's not some supercar that they can hand
> build only 12 a year. It's a somewhat improved version of a MASS PRODUCED
> CAR. 30 years from now we'll know if it's a collectable or not, I'm not
> buying a car to put in shrink wrap for 30 years anyway.

I think we are both saying the same thing. Unfortunately the SVT
vehicles have not helped Ford sell cars. IMO, this gives more strength
to the bean counters argument (assuming there is one) to ax the entire
SVT concept (and the Cobra along with it). If that happens then Ford's
performance cars will suffer, IMHO, of course. The existence of SVT and
its influence on the DEW Mustang design team is likely the biggest
reason that the current Mustang performs so well. My fear is the only
type of performance cars Ford might be interested in developing in the
future will be the mega dollar (i.e. highly profitable) supercars like
the Ford GT. This could also lead to the eventual termination of the
Mustang. Chevy did it to the Camaro and Ford could do it to the Mustang.

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in news:uZWdnR8VorAlS6zfRVn-
:

> I'm just guessing as to Ford's thinking on the Cobra. Most auto makers
> delay the hot rod versions of their cars by several months to a few
> years. DC is doing it with the 300C, Chevy with the Z06 (damn I love
> that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven more by
> marketing than a result of production issues.

I don't think it's marketing so much. I think it's one of two things. 1.)
They just need the time to work out what the car is going to be. or 2)
SVT's role is going to be changing, in the sense that everything in the
future coming out of SVT will wear a Shelby badge. If that ends up being
the case, I would think the Cobra will cost well over 40k. In return you'd
get a street legal 500hp road racer. Think Shelby GT-R. Then there will be
a shelby badged truck, and at least another more affordable car. The span
between the factory GT and the Shelby could be covered by Mach 1's, Boss,
etc.. From what I've read SVT wasn't going to limit the price to under 40k.
That only makes sense with a Shelby badged SCCA race car. It fits a niche,
and doesn't have to compete in the market head to head with much else in
the way of American cars.

>
> The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My guess
> is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some potential
> buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less expensive GT or
> base model. I'm just glad they are still making noise about a new Cobra
> considering Ford's financial situation.

Agreed.