Crazy Electrical Problem on 1990 Chevy Celebrity

OK, here's a really frustrating problem....I have a 1990 Celebrity
Wagon, 75k miles, owned since 15k. It has a 3.1 w/auto & most every
option. The problem is, the other month, the radio blinks & went
out...thought that it may have seen better days...then, about 30 miles
later, the car was struggling to get uphill. I limped home, next
morning the car started verry slowly (like the battery was almost dead)
and got me to work. Upon leaving work, attempted to start it and it was
dead. It took a jump fine, got me home where I charged it and all was
well. For about 3 weeks, now the same problem is back...oh...forgot to
mention...the radio came back about a week later and the problems
subsided. Now the radio is out again, rough going uphill, and I'm
afraid I'll get stuck again! Anyone have any idea where to start? The
batt & alt are within a year old. Thanks in advance ! The Doctor

Positive Battery cable. I rant on this all the time. I love GM, but the
sidepost battery is a BAD idea. Here is what usually happens. The
sidepost batteries are sensitive to vibration and terminal torque. They
usually start leaking battery acid, the positive battery terminal is
sealed in a rubber boot. With this seal the acid wicks through the
terminal to the cables. Notice I said cables(plural). There are 2
positive cables within this boot. Both cables are terminated in tin
plated copper ring terminals with a lead washer in between. Through this
stack of terminals is a cadmium plated steel bolt. Smother these metals
in acid and you get a process known as dissimilar metal corrosion. Most
oaften this corrosion develops between the ring terminals, the bolt, and
the lead washer. This corrosion leads to high resistance connections
between the sidepost of the battery, and one or both of the ring
terminals. One of the ring terminals is attached to the cable that goes
to the starter only. The other terminal feeds the electronics of the
car. The alternator generally feeds through the second terminal. Faulty
connections at this point usually cause one of two major issues. 1. The
car will crank but not start, or if it does start, it stops as soon as
the key is released. 2. Once started, it will run fine, but sometimes
when you stop, it will not crank. Different variations of this flaw can
cause some very strange symptoms like yours. BTW, I just junked a car
just like yours one year older with 290,000 miles on it. It had this
problem one time, as soon as it did, I changed the cables and battery to
top post, and never had a problem after that (about 100,000 miles). If
you do change to top post, be carefull of the strut support member that
you have to unbolt to remove the battery, it will short out the positive
post, I spaced mine up about 1/4 of an inch with washers to prevent it.
Loved the car, it was ALMOST indestructible, but old age and a teenage
son don't go together very well. I so wanted it to make it to 300K but
there were just too many small things wrong with it, and a few big ones.
KenG

The Doctor wrote:
> OK, here's a really frustrating problem....I have a 1990 Celebrity
> Wagon, 75k miles, owned since 15k. It has a 3.1 w/auto & most every
> option. The problem is, the other month, the radio blinks & went
> out...thought that it may have seen better days...then, about 30 miles
> later, the car was struggling to get uphill. I limped home, next
> morning the car started verry slowly (like the battery was almost dead)
> and got me to work. Upon leaving work, attempted to start it and it was
> dead. It took a jump fine, got me home where I charged it and all was
> well. For about 3 weeks, now the same problem is back...oh...forgot to
> mention...the radio came back about a week later and the problems
> subsided. Now the radio is out again, rough going uphill, and I'm
> afraid I'll get stuck again! Anyone have any idea where to start? The
> batt & alt are within a year old. Thanks in advance ! The Doctor
>

KENG wrote:
> Positive Battery cable. I rant on this all the time. I love GM, but
the
> sidepost battery is a BAD idea. Here is what usually happens. The
> sidepost batteries are sensitive to vibration and terminal torque.
They
> usually start leaking battery acid, the positive battery terminal is
> sealed in a rubber boot. With this seal the acid wicks through the
> terminal to the cables. Notice I said cables(plural). There are 2
> positive cables within this boot. Both cables are terminated in tin
> plated copper ring terminals with a lead washer in between. Through
this
> stack of terminals is a cadmium plated steel bolt. Smother these
metals
> in acid and you get a process known as dissimilar metal corrosion.
Most
> oaften this corrosion develops between the ring terminals, the bolt,
and
> the lead washer. This corrosion leads to high resistance connections
> between the sidepost of the battery, and one or both of the ring
> terminals. One of the ring terminals is attached to the cable that
goes
> to the starter only. The other terminal feeds the electronics of the
> car. The alternator generally feeds through the second terminal.
Faulty
> connections at this point usually cause one of two major issues. 1.
The
> car will crank but not start, or if it does start, it stops as soon
as
> the key is released. 2. Once started, it will run fine, but sometimes

> when you stop, it will not crank. Different variations of this flaw
can
> cause some very strange symptoms like yours. BTW, I just junked a car

> just like yours one year older with 290,000 miles on it. It had this
> problem one time, as soon as it did, I changed the cables and battery
to
> top post, and never had a problem after that (about 100,000 miles).
If
> you do change to top post, be carefull of the strut support member
that
> you have to unbolt to remove the battery, it will short out the
positive
> post, I spaced mine up about 1/4 of an inch with washers to prevent
it.
> Loved the car, it was ALMOST indestructible, but old age and a
teenage
> son don't go together very well. I so wanted it to make it to 300K
but
> there were just too many small things wrong with it, and a few big
ones.
> KenG
>
> The Doctor wrote:
> > OK, here's a really frustrating problem....I have a 1990 Celebrity
> > Wagon, 75k miles, owned since 15k. It has a 3.1 w/auto & most every
> > option. The problem is, the other month, the radio blinks & went
> > out...thought that it may have seen better days...then, about 30
miles
> > later, the car was struggling to get uphill. I limped home, next
> > morning the car started verry slowly (like the battery was almost
dead)
> > and got me to work. Upon leaving work, attempted to start it and it
was
> > dead. It took a jump fine, got me home where I charged it and all
was
> > well. For about 3 weeks, now the same problem is back...oh...forgot
to
> > mention...the radio came back about a week later and the problems
> > subsided. Now the radio is out again, rough going uphill, and I'm
> > afraid I'll get stuck again! Anyone have any idea where to start?
The
> > batt & alt are within a year old. Thanks in advance ! The Doctor
> >

Thanks for the pointers, Ken! I checked the car this morning, and it
has only a single pos batt cable...I know what you mean about the
stacked ones, though...my Buick Roadmaster has that set-up. Anyway,
I'll remove it & clean it all the same & see what happens from there.
It looks to be very clean as it is, so unless there is indeed corrosion
between the contact point, I'm back to square one...I'll post as soon
as this is done.Thanks again! The Doctor

Dirty battery connections are my first guess. Second is a dead ground
strap from the engine to the body. Yours is at the age they go.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

The Doctor wrote:
>
> OK, here's a really frustrating problem....I have a 1990 Celebrity
> Wagon, 75k miles, owned since 15k. It has a 3.1 w/auto & most every
> option. The problem is, the other month, the radio blinks & went
> out...thought that it may have seen better days...then, about 30 miles
> later, the car was struggling to get uphill. I limped home, next
> morning the car started verry slowly (like the battery was almost dead)
> and got me to work. Upon leaving work, attempted to start it and it was
> dead. It took a jump fine, got me home where I charged it and all was
> well. For about 3 weeks, now the same problem is back...oh...forgot to
> mention...the radio came back about a week later and the problems
> subsided. Now the radio is out again, rough going uphill, and I'm
> afraid I'll get stuck again! Anyone have any idea where to start? The
> batt & alt are within a year old. Thanks in advance ! The Doctor

Not to sound dopey....but any idea where the ground strap is located on
this car? All the best...The Doctor

I am not sure but it is lots of times from the bell housing to the
firewall.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

The Doctor wrote:
>
> Not to sound dopey....but any idea where the ground strap is located on
> this car? All the best...The Doctor

"The Doctor" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> OK, here's a really frustrating problem....I have a 1990 Celebrity
> Wagon, 75k miles, owned since 15k. It has a 3.1 w/auto & most every
> option. The problem is, the other month, the radio blinks & went
> out...thought that it may have seen better days...then, about 30 miles
> later, the car was struggling to get uphill. I limped home, next
> morning the car started verry slowly (like the battery was almost
> dead)
> and got me to work. Upon leaving work, attempted to start it and it
> was
> dead. It took a jump fine, got me home where I charged it and all was
> well. For about 3 weeks, now the same problem is back...oh...forgot to
> mention...the radio came back about a week later and the problems
> subsided. Now the radio is out again, rough going uphill, and I'm
> afraid I'll get stuck again! Anyone have any idea where to start? The
> batt & alt are within a year old. Thanks in advance ! The Doctor
>

Before you pull the car apart looking for bad connections: The 2 parts
that fail first are the battery and the alternator.

Batteries just die or gently fade away and at 75 - 100 k miles the
brushes in the alternator could easily be worn out.

Low battery voltage often causes the radio to stop and other mysterious
behaviour.
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?

Well, I checked the battery cables this A.M. & they all looked fine-no
or minimal corrosion. I cleaned them & roughed them up to mate to the
battey better and the problem is still there...I think I may have to
clarify the radio symptom, though....this is NOT the same thing that
happens when your battery is running low, ie, radio gets static-y and
eventually goes out-presumably because its not getting the proper
voltage. This is the displays getting all goofy looking, then just
going out. If you turn the power on & off to the radio, you can hear
the distinct 'power pop' which would be somewhat normal...the only
thing is that when you hear the power-up noise, you get nothing- no
radio reception, no display. Then that's when the other problems start,
battery going low, and eventually bucking and poof-dead! BTW, trhe
battery shows good on the tester as does the alternator. It also will
take a charge from the alternator *when* this problem
subsides...remember, its only sporadic...sigh....I really don't want to
junk this car..at 74k its barely broken in ! lol The Doctor

You still could be describing a dead ground to the body. How does the
small black wire off the battery look? Any melt evidence?

When the engine ground strap is dead, the vehicle steals grounds. It
can steal it through the radio for a while until it melts something
inside it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

The Doctor wrote:
>
> Well, I checked the battery cables this A.M. & they all looked fine-no
> or minimal corrosion. I cleaned them & roughed them up to mate to the
> battey better and the problem is still there...I think I may have to
> clarify the radio symptom, though....this is NOT the same thing that
> happens when your battery is running low, ie, radio gets static-y and
> eventually goes out-presumably because its not getting the proper
> voltage. This is the displays getting all goofy looking, then just
> going out. If you turn the power on & off to the radio, you can hear
> the distinct 'power pop' which would be somewhat normal...the only
> thing is that when you hear the power-up noise, you get nothing- no
> radio reception, no display. Then that's when the other problems start,
> battery going low, and eventually bucking and poof-dead! BTW, trhe
> battery shows good on the tester as does the alternator. It also will
> take a charge from the alternator *when* this problem
> subsides...remember, its only sporadic...sigh....I really don't want to
> junk this car..at 74k its barely broken in ! lol The Doctor

Hi All, just wanted to let everyone know its fixed! I was indeed the
Pos cable AND the ground strap off the neg. On second look, the
corrosion was between the little 'burrs' on the pos cable . I chipped
it off with a sharp awl. Upon doing that, the radio came right back on
and everything (so far) seems right! Thanks to all who posted
suggestions-you guys are great! The Doctor