No charge, no speedo

Spdloader wrote:
> "Earle Horton" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>You can get an inexpensive magnetic ammeter from many auto parts or tools
>>vendors. You just lay it over the wire, and it tells you how much current
>>is passing through it. I'm guessing bad alternator too.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"Spdloader" > wrote in message
m...
>>
>>>With the fuse replaced, at idle, the new alternator charges 13.9v, as
>>>soon
>>>as you rev the motor the tiniest bit, the alt/spd fuse blows.
>>>
>>>I'm guessing, I've got yet another bad alternator.
>>>
>>>Spdloader
>
>
> Thanks Earle, the probe accessories on my Fluke meter allow me a similar
> setup. Hard to believe three bad alternators with exactly the same problem.
> 1, the original, 2, the one from the salvage yard, and 3, the reman unit
> from the Zone.

I find that hard to believe as well - I'd start looking for either
another source of the current draw, or something else that may be
killing the alternators (probably with excessive current draw).

I missed the original thread, but have you tested and/or replaced the
battery? An internal short may be sucking the current. Maybe check for
a short in the alt-to-battery wire (rubbing against the block?)

Hmm, 13.9V is really too high for idle... you should normally see closer
to 12.5V at idle (<1000rpm), and 14-14.5V when revved up.

> I find that hard to believe as well - I'd start looking for either
> another source of the current draw, or something else that may be killing
> the alternators (probably with excessive current draw).

This is a no-frills car. No power windows locks or anything, just a stereo
and rear window defroster, which did have a blown fuse.

>
> I missed the original thread, but have you tested and/or replaced the
> battery? An internal short may be sucking the current. Maybe check for a
> short in the alt-to-battery wire (rubbing against the block?)

The battery was properly tested with an AVR, and the charge harness has been
dissected and nothing notable found. VSS removed, tested, cleaned, and
re-intstalled.
>
> Hmm, 13.9V is really too high for idle... you should normally see closer
> to 12.5V at idle (<1000rpm), and 14-14.5V when revved up.

That was immediately after putting in a new fuse, and the alternator started
charging. It quickly about (1-1/2min) went down to the 12.5 range and
maintained it, but upon revving the engine, the charge went off the scale
and the fuse blew again, all in about 2 seconds. Charge started down the
scale then.

Spdloader

Spdloader wrote:
>> I find that hard to believe as well - I'd start looking for either
>> another source of the current draw, or something else that may be
>> killing the alternators (probably with excessive current draw).
>
> This is a no-frills car. No power windows locks or anything, just a
> stereo and rear window defroster, which did have a blown fuse.
>
>>
>> I missed the original thread, but have you tested and/or replaced the
>> battery? An internal short may be sucking the current. Maybe check
>> for a short in the alt-to-battery wire (rubbing against the block?)
>
> The battery was properly tested with an AVR, and the charge harness has
> been dissected and nothing notable found. VSS removed, tested, cleaned,
> and re-intstalled.
>>
>> Hmm, 13.9V is really too high for idle... you should normally see
>> closer to 12.5V at idle (<1000rpm), and 14-14.5V when revved up.
>
> That was immediately after putting in a new fuse, and the alternator
> started charging. It quickly about (1-1/2min) went down to the 12.5
> range and maintained it, but upon revving the engine, the charge went
> off the scale and the fuse blew again, all in about 2 seconds. Charge
> started down the scale then.

It really looks like the current alternator is not regulator it's full
speed
voltage output and the battery is kind enough to mop up the extra amps
until the Fuse get bored and decides it's time to leave.


--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Graham W wrote:
> Spdloader wrote:
>>> I find that hard to believe as well - I'd start looking for either
>>> another source of the current draw, or something else that may be
>>> killing the alternators (probably with excessive current draw).
>>
>> This is a no-frills car. No power windows locks or anything, just a
>> stereo and rear window defroster, which did have a blown fuse.
>>
>>>
>>> I missed the original thread, but have you tested and/or replaced the
>>> battery? An internal short may be sucking the current. Maybe check
>>> for a short in the alt-to-battery wire (rubbing against the block?)
>>
>> The battery was properly tested with an AVR, and the charge harness has
>> been dissected and nothing notable found. VSS removed, tested, cleaned,
>> and re-intstalled.
>>>
>>> Hmm, 13.9V is really too high for idle... you should normally see
>>> closer to 12.5V at idle (<1000rpm), and 14-14.5V when revved up.
>>
>> That was immediately after putting in a new fuse, and the alternator
>> started charging. It quickly about (1-1/2min) went down to the 12.5
>> range and maintained it, but upon revving the engine, the charge went
>> off the scale and the fuse blew again, all in about 2 seconds. Charge
>> started down the scale then.
>
It really looks like the current alternator is not regulatING it's full
speed voltage output and the battery is kind enough to mop up
the extra amps until the Fuse gets bored and decides it's time to
leave.

Sorry for the typo.


--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

"Spdloader" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> > I find that hard to believe as well - I'd start looking for either
> > another source of the current draw, or something else that may be
killing
> > the alternators (probably with excessive current draw).
>
> This is a no-frills car. No power windows locks or anything, just a stereo
> and rear window defroster, which did have a blown fuse.
>
> >
> > I missed the original thread, but have you tested and/or replaced the
> > battery? An internal short may be sucking the current. Maybe check for
a
> > short in the alt-to-battery wire (rubbing against the block?)
>
> The battery was properly tested with an AVR, and the charge harness has
been
> dissected and nothing notable found. VSS removed, tested, cleaned, and
> re-intstalled.
> >
> > Hmm, 13.9V is really too high for idle... you should normally see closer
> > to 12.5V at idle (<1000rpm), and 14-14.5V when revved up.
>
> That was immediately after putting in a new fuse, and the alternator
started
> charging. It quickly about (1-1/2min) went down to the 12.5 range and
> maintained it, but upon revving the engine, the charge went off the scale
> and the fuse blew again, all in about 2 seconds. Charge started down the
> scale then.
>
> Spdloader
>
This looks like problems with the voltage regulator. I am not sure where it
is located in a "1998 Civic DX 5spd", and I hope I never find out, because
mine is a 1999 HX, probably in the same place!

Earle



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> This looks like problems with the voltage regulator. I am not sure where
> it
> is located in a "1998 Civic DX 5spd", and I hope I never find out, because
> mine is a 1999 HX, probably in the same place!
>
> Earle

You know what sucks the worst, Earle? She gave up the '90 XJ Limited I gave
her for this thing. It never gave a moments trouble, just liked the gas.

Spdloader

Spdloader wrote:

>>Hmm, 13.9V is really too high for idle... you should normally see closer
>>to 12.5V at idle (<1000rpm), and 14-14.5V when revved up.
>
>
> That was immediately after putting in a new fuse, and the alternator started
> charging. It quickly about (1-1/2min) went down to the 12.5 range and
> maintained it, but upon revving the engine, the charge went off the scale
> and the fuse blew again, all in about 2 seconds. Charge started down the
> scale then.

Strange... if there was a short to ground somewhere, the voltage should
plummet just before the fuse blows. Does it still do it with the
battery disconnected?

It sounds like a bad voltage regulator, but that should be internal on
those alternators and so you'd be getting a different one with every
replacement alt.

Earle Horton wrote:
> "Spdloader" > wrote in message

>charging. It quickly about (1-1/2min) went down to the 12.5 range and
>>maintained it, but upon revving the engine, the charge went off the scale
>>and the fuse blew again, all in about 2 seconds. Charge started down the
>>scale then.
>>
>>Spdloader
>>
>
> This looks like problems with the voltage regulator. I am not sure where it
> is located in a "1998 Civic DX 5spd", and I hope I never find out, because
> mine is a 1999 HX, probably in the same place!

If I'm not mistaken, the regulator is internal to the alternator, which
makes it that much stranger that this should happen with three different
alts.

>
> Strange... if there was a short to ground somewhere, the voltage should
> plummet just before the fuse blows. Does it still do it with the battery
> disconnected?
>
> It sounds like a bad voltage regulator, but that should be internal on
> those alternators and so you'd be getting a different one with every
> replacement alt.

Makes no difference if the battery is connected. Same outcome.

Tomorrow, it's a new alternator.

Update to follow.

Spdloader

>
> Well, if it's not the battery mopping up all the amps til the fuse pops,
> then it must be a short to ground.

The battery tests fine with an AVR, that's all I have to test with, but it
should be sufficient.

>
> Have you tried it with the high current stuff (headlights etc) on and
> then measure the volts as the revs are raised?

Yes, revving the engine to 2000rpm with headlights, a/c, fan, and rear
defrost, voltage went off the scale, and the fuse popped.
It was a little slower, about 5 seconds.

>
>> Update to follow.
>
> Waiting with baited breath.


>