'00 Voyager Compressor questions

The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with
the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it
didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close
enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the
alternator.

Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of
getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are
happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive
as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions:

- recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay?
- reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one
(140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman?
- I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor.
What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler
calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is
crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills?

Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn
down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm
done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that?

A good reman. will normally be same as OEM, life-wise. Do not ebay it.
Go local, where you can get return IF it goes west. Doubt expansion
valve needed, after all, you state doing new oil, etc.


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I can appreciate the thought of going local, as I've done this in the
past with performance shocks. However, we're talking about a
significant savings that I'm loathe to turn down, so I may still go
that way. Autozone quotes $290 for reman, $370-400 for new. I see
these compressors on ebay all the time for <$150 reman, <$300 new, with
the proper clutch assembly. Advance Auto is in the same ball park.

If it ment paying $25 more to go local, that would be worth it to me,
but $150 more is too steep.

Just looking for someone with experience with anyone on ebay....

Knifeblade_03 wrote:
> A good reman. will normally be same as OEM, life-wise. Do not ebay it.
> Go local, where you can get return IF it goes west. Doubt expansion
> valve needed, after all, you state doing new oil, etc.
>
>
> --
> Knifeblade_03
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--

"bruce" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
> I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with
> the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it
> didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close
> enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the
> alternator.
>
> Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of
> getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are
> happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive
> as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions:
>
> - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay?
> - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one
> (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman?
> - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor.
> What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler
> calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is
> crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills?
>
> Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn
> down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm
> done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that?
>
What causes the clutch and coil to go bad is the air gap required to keep
the pulley from touching the clutch is gone and when the compressor is not
in use the friction from the pulley heats up the clutch and takes all the
grease out of the bearing, this in turn causes the failure.
If the housing is worn and you install a new clutch assembly it will fail
also. I would go with a Mopar reman complete assembly.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

On 14 Apr 2006 19:41:01 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:

>The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
>I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with
>the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it
>didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close
>enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the
>alternator.
>

You need to know what happened first. If in fact the compressor did
seize then you need to flush the system and I would replace the
orifice along with the dryer. If the compressor did not seize there
isn't any real reason to have to flush. The compressor warranty may
require that you replace the orifice as well as the dryer.

I haven't had very good luck with rebuilt compressors . Especially
stay away from the "Four Siezens" compressors sold at the discount
auto parts places. The labor to flush the system, dryer, orifice and
vacuum / recharge are at least half the cost of repair. If you buy a
cheesy rebuilt compressor that fails in short order all that money is
lost.

If the compressor did seize I would take it to an A/C shop for repair
and use what ever compressor they recommend. This way if it fails
again you have a warranty on the entire repair. If you replace the
compressor and have them do all the rest your savings can quickly go
up in smoke since no shop is going to warranty parts you put on.

If the compressor didn't seize then go have the 134a recovered,
replace the compressor dryer and orifice and have the shop vacuum it
and recharge. If you think you are going to do more a/c work in the
future it may be worth it to you to go ahead and buy a vacuum pump
(about $250) and a decent set of gauges (about $100). Years ago I
found that I could buy all the tools and fix it myself for the same
price a shop wanted to do the job. Those tools have come in handy at
least half a dozen times since then and I consider them to be a wise
investment.

Steve B.

Unless your a certified A/C tech!! Your going to need to take it in! Any
type of A/C service almost always requires a certified A/C tech to work on
the A/C system.


"bruce" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
> I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with
> the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it
> didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close
> enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the
> alternator.
>
> Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of
> getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are
> happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive
> as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions:
>
> - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay?
> - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one
> (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman?
> - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor.
> What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler
> calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is
> crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills?
>
> Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn
> down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm
> done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that?
>

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. You brought to mind some things that
I didn't think of in my original post. The AC ceased blowing cold last
fall according to my wife. I hadn't driven the car much, so it was
hard for me to tell, but it didn't seem to be cycling on at all. As we
went through the winter, the bearings started to complain, and the
funny thing was that the idler pulley for the belt around the crank,
alt, and compressor was making noise too. I narrowed that down by
pulling the idler and checking it. It had some definite roughness in
the bearings. I replaced it and the noise went away. Two weeks later,
I'm on my way to JFK airport (a 2 hour trip), halfway there and I'm
starting to hear bearing noise! I got to the airport, and about
halfway home, it started to complain a little bit more occasionally.
About a half hour from home, it started to complain loudly, then it got
quiet. Then the alternator light came on!

As this was mid-January in upstate NY, I removed the idler, bought a
belt for a non-AC car and removed the remains of the clutch assembly.
The clutch all but fell off. The

So, now, I'm thinking quite a bit harder about all of this. I just
checked, and for sure, the compressor is siezed. I also put the low
side only pressure guage I've got on the line. It does have pressure
in the low side. I'm not sure how accurate the guage on my $20
charging hose is, but it reads about 65 psi. They don't make it easy
to get to! The compressor is on the bottom of the motor, and the low
side port is on the hose where I have to reach in between the front of
the motor and the radiator under the intake ram.

I truly wish I could afford to buy a vacuum pump. I see electric
vacuum pumps on ebay for a little over $200. What about the vacuum
pumps that operate on compressed air? They're a lot cheaper, but how
do they work?


Steve B. wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2006 19:41:01 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:
>
> >The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
> >I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with
> >the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it
> >didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close
> >enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the
> >alternator.
> >
>
> You need to know what happened first. If in fact the compressor did
> seize then you need to flush the system and I would replace the
> orifice along with the dryer. If the compressor did not seize there
> isn't any real reason to have to flush. The compressor warranty may
> require that you replace the orifice as well as the dryer.
>
> I haven't had very good luck with rebuilt compressors . Especially
> stay away from the "Four Siezens" compressors sold at the discount
> auto parts places. The labor to flush the system, dryer, orifice and
> vacuum / recharge are at least half the cost of repair. If you buy a
> cheesy rebuilt compressor that fails in short order all that money is
> lost.
>
> If the compressor did seize I would take it to an A/C shop for repair
> and use what ever compressor they recommend. This way if it fails
> again you have a warranty on the entire repair. If you replace the
> compressor and have them do all the rest your savings can quickly go
> up in smoke since no shop is going to warranty parts you put on.
>
> If the compressor didn't seize then go have the 134a recovered,
> replace the compressor dryer and orifice and have the shop vacuum it
> and recharge. If you think you are going to do more a/c work in the
> future it may be worth it to you to go ahead and buy a vacuum pump
> (about $250) and a decent set of gauges (about $100). Years ago I
> found that I could buy all the tools and fix it myself for the same
> price a shop wanted to do the job. Those tools have come in handy at
> least half a dozen times since then and I consider them to be a wise
> investment.
>
> Steve B.

On 15 Apr 2006 18:20:11 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:

>As this was mid-January in upstate NY, I removed the idler, bought a
>belt for a non-AC car and removed the remains of the clutch assembly.
>The clutch all but fell off. The
>
>So, now, I'm thinking quite a bit harder about all of this. I just
>checked, and for sure, the compressor is siezed.

The pulley is seized or the compressor is seized? I suspect that the
bearing in the pulley has failed and it seized up. The compressor is
actually driven by the clutch assembly on the front of the unit.
Sounds to me like the clutch is missing from your unit now. This
could be good news if only the pulley seized. You probably still need
a new compressor but at least you won't have a system full of
shrapnel.

>I truly wish I could afford to buy a vacuum pump. I see electric
>vacuum pumps on ebay for a little over $200. What about the vacuum
>pumps that operate on compressed air? They're a lot cheaper, but how
>do they work?


Not very well. The principle is that the air rushing through the unit
provided by the compressor will draw a vacuum on the system. My
neighbor tried to use and while it worked somewhat it didn't draw a
deep enough vacuum to boil the moisture out of the system.

Steve B.

"philthy" > wrote in message
...
> do u have access to a recycle machine?? what are u going to do wiht the
> r134 vent it in the air????

The EPA switched to R134a because it was environmentally
friendly, so what is the problem? ;-)

> get a clutch assembly no recyling needed

And watch it burn up the second you engage the compressor.

> how are u going to pull a vac on the system?? do u have rear air it more
> than likely leaks at the fitting in the rear adn there is a chance the
> ecvap coil is leaking a well known issue
>

Oh dear, looks like Chrysler doesen't care about the environment
either, all those bad evaporators.

Ted

> bruce wrote:
>
> > The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
> > I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with
> > the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it
> > didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close
> > enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the
> > alternator.
> >
> > Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of
> > getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are
> > happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive
> > as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions:
> >
> > - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay?
> > - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one
> > (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman?
> > - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor.
> > What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler
> > calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is
> > crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills?
> >
> > Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn
> > down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm
> > done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that?
>

"Steve B." > wrote in message
...
> On 15 Apr 2006 18:20:11 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:
>
> >As this was mid-January in upstate NY, I removed the idler, bought a
> >belt for a non-AC car and removed the remains of the clutch assembly.
> >The clutch all but fell off. The
> >
> >So, now, I'm thinking quite a bit harder about all of this. I just
> >checked, and for sure, the compressor is siezed.
>
> The pulley is seized or the compressor is seized? I suspect that the
> bearing in the pulley has failed and it seized up. The compressor is
> actually driven by the clutch assembly on the front of the unit.
> Sounds to me like the clutch is missing from your unit now. This
> could be good news if only the pulley seized. You probably still need
> a new compressor but at least you won't have a system full of
> shrapnel.
>
> >I truly wish I could afford to buy a vacuum pump. I see electric
> >vacuum pumps on ebay for a little over $200. What about the vacuum
> >pumps that operate on compressed air? They're a lot cheaper, but how
> >do they work?
>
>
> Not very well. The principle is that the air rushing through the unit
> provided by the compressor will draw a vacuum on the system. My
> neighbor tried to use and while it worked somewhat it didn't draw a
> deep enough vacuum to boil the moisture out of the system.
>

They work fine if you have a good compressor. I have one and
I have a floor compressor that runs off 220v and it draws vacuum
down to the required level (22Hg I think it is, but I forget) and I
could clearly see boiling moisture in the clear tube that I had running
from the vacuum to the system. (I put in a few water droplets to see
what would happen) The key with these is to run 3/4 inch or larger
hose from the compressor tank to the vacuum.

I also recommend you add 2 things, a valve that is between the vacuum
port and the system and a vacuum guage. When the system is completely
evacuated, you will want to close the valve then shut off the vacuum then
leave it overnight, to see if there are any leaks. If the system is leaking
in
the morning you will have no vacuum in it.

Ted