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#21
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Pete wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:00:02 GMT, Catman > >, wrote: > >>Pete wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:40:32 GMT, NC >, wrote: >>> >>>>Surely he means grounded via the nozzle . handle, not the shoes. >>> and the nozzle would be connected to the pump by a hose made of ? >>> >>Well, something conductive, obviously. Oh. Right. As you were >> >>Actually, to be fair, it *could* be conductive, but the handle is (IME) >>covered in plastic anyway...... > > I thought you might like that one <BWG> You know me to well > G'night folks gnight jim-bob :> -- Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk |
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#22
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In article >, iowna156
@alfa.com says... > On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:11:41 +0100, MeatballTurbo > >, wrote: > > >In article >, > says... > >> > > >> > for petrol in the UK, we don't get no choice. Locking nozzles are > >> > banned. You have to stand there with trigger held in for "Safety" > >> > reasons. > >> > > >> > I think it is because it stops fuel getting spilled if the vac/pressure > >> > autocuttoff fails (I had that actually happen at a pump once, and ended > >> > up with a petrol soaked shoe). > >> > >> The solution to the lack of locking nozzles is to jam the filler cap > >> inside the handle. The 156 cap works a treat. > >> > >> Fuel station operatives tend not to like you doing it for the reasons > >> you mention (possible spillage) so I tend not to wander too far. Most > >> petrol stations have such slow pumps that it does save you having to > >> hold the handle for ages. Best regards > >> > >> Joe > >> 156 2.0l TS > >> > >Is the 156 cap a screw in plastic thread? I'm sure when I bought a > >Halfords locking cap for the Saab it shared a part number with a locking > >cap for one Alfa or another? > > http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/pb87/pb87.htm > "The 164 is part of the "Type 4" project jointly developed by Fiat, Lancia, > Saab and Alfa Romeo for the design and construction of a medium-to-big > saloon frame. " > > Pete > Nah, my Saab is older than the 164/9000. It's an old T16S 900, the strange humpy one with front handbrake, huge amounts of lag, and a mental 3rd gear 40-90 surge, or 4th gear 50-90 faster than a ferrari 308. Just has a bit of a drink problem, hence looking to sell, and considering either an 8v 155, a 164 or a 75 amongst the Alfas (although the 9000 Aero, and the Honda Prelude VTEC generation 4 are also in the running). They are all drivers cars, but they are also generally undervalued for what they can do (though some more than others), all have wonderful looks in their own ways, and with the exception of the Honda are all camchain engines of arround the 2-2.3 litre size. Hondas seem to do better with belts than other makes, and depending on how you drive drive, you either have a 5.5k shopping cart that sips like a granny with sweet sherry, or take it into VTEC country and hit 7.5k and get back 195BHP, with 4wheel steer. and should make mid 30's average if driven like I normally do. The Saab 2.3 225BHP Aero turbo engine that is a 25 year evolution just like the Afa twinks, and because the aeros has so much more torque they are geared higher and make 40mpg on a run, and mid 30's mixed. The Alfas are much maligned and a bargain to buy, the camchain engines run well with maintenance as a good engine should be, they don't rot, and the perforance is spirited with good economy again I expect low to mid 30's for a 2litre TS. All three will provide much better economy than the old 900 that just about nudges 32-33 on a good run, and 29 average, plus it is starting to generally get a little run down. Would make someone an easy rolling resto if they wanted a very early example of a T16 (haven't seen a 16v earlier than a C reg, mine is a B (introduced at motorshows in 1984, mostly registered in 85, mine is actually registered 84), but If I was to spend the kind of money it would take to put right at an independant I could buy a newer more economical car for similar money, but someone who has a workshop and a pit/lift and a better toolkit/power equipment and more marque knowledge than I have could fix it up probably in a 2-3 three days with just the parts/materials costs. so I guess it is time to move on. -- The poster formerly known as Skodapilot. http://www.bouncing-czechs.com |
#23
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Just a few examples below: http://www.jeffreybarnes.com/fire0229.html http://www.sema.state.mo.us/static%20car%20fires02.pdf http://www.pei.org/static/ The grounding will take place through the metal parts of the pump like the trigger or the trigger guard, which aren't generally covered in plastic, then through the pump nozzle to the filler surround, then to the rest of the car. has.mac |
#25
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"MeatballTurbo" > wrote in message t... > but the car isn't grounded, it is held up by 4 big rubber things. > -- The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically connected to the Earth. Anyway, looking into it more, fuel pump hoses are actually required to contain a ground path in the hose which electrically connects the pump to the nozzle, so that will keep everything literally grounded. So when you go to refuel, the first thing you touch is the car, removing the filler cap, this generally gets rid of any potential between you and the car. Then the pump nozzle, grounding yourself through the metal parts of the nozzle, this then slots into the filler, grounding against the car through the metal surround on the filler. Then everything, including you, is electrically grounded via the conducting strip in the hose to the ground in the pump, keeping everything at the same potential. The problem arises with locking nozzles, or people jamming filler caps under the trigger. People leave the pump and walk away to do something else, the movement creates a static buildup, which then discharges when you return to the pump. It doesn't happen all the time, it depends on loads of different things as to how much charge you build up, but in a small number of cases, there'll be enough of a static charge built up to make a spark with enough energy to ignite fuel vapour. OK, maybe seeing is believing, http://www.sfowler.com/static/pump%20fire.avi has.mac |
#26
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has.mac wrote:
> > "MeatballTurbo" > wrote in message > t... >> but the car isn't grounded, it is held up by 4 big rubber things. >> -- > > The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static > potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically > connected to the Earth. > > Anyway, looking into it more, fuel pump hoses are actually required to > contain a ground path in the hose which electrically connects the pump to > the nozzle, so that will keep everything literally grounded. > Now that I can understand, if it's true (and I have no particular reason to doubt you) <snip> -- Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk |
#27
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:43:10 GMT, "has.mac" >,
wrote: >The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static >potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically >connected to the Earth. This is, of course, the correct answer and has won this weeks prize for ending a very tortuous thread. Thank you. :-) Pete -- > 156 2.0 TS (2001) - Proteo Rosso (his) 147 2.0 TS (2002) - Gem Green (her's) |
#28
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In article >,
ants spouted forth into alt.autos.alfa-romeo... > The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static > potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically > connected to the Earth. > Fair enough, snipped the rest. I stand corrected, and glad to be for safety reasons. Having read the cap jamming trick was tempted to try it, but won't now, even if I did keep my hand on the nozzle. -- Carl Robson (The poster formerly known as Skodapilot) http://www.bouncing-czechs.com |
#29
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"Pete" > wrote in message ... > > ending a very tortuous thread. Thank you. :-) > :-) I agree. Sorry for ranting. Should have tried to explain it better in my first post. has.mac |
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