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  #11  
Old January 24th 05, 12:02 AM
Dana Rohleder
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Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you didn't
have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly overheat the
fan.

The A/C seems to work in any temperature. When I get in the car with wet
clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears
them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield..
--
Dana C. Rohleder
Port Kent, NY

"I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your
sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005


Ads
  #12  
Old January 24th 05, 02:40 PM
C. E. White
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A/C doesn't work when outside temperature is below 40
degrees or so. The refrigerant is so cold that it never
vaporizes and therefore the A/C can't work. For this reason,
the A/C compressor is disabled. I have a Ford (in addition
to my Saturn). Driving along the other day in cold
temperatures, the A/C compressor finally kicked in after
about 30 minutes of driving. I think the under hood
temperature finally got warm enough to allow the compressor
to run.

If you are having problems with fogging windows, be sure you
are not using the recirculate mode. Bringing in cool outside
air and heating it should still drop the humidity enough to
help keep the windows clear.

Ed

Jonnie Santos wrote:
>
> "Oppie" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New

>
> > I did see something new on my '01 lw300, The hvac blower stopped working
> > on
> > high for about 5 minutes after a start. Lower speeds were all working.
> > Got
> > to look into that one. Don't know if it was something loose in the right
> > side passenger compartment fuse panel. Noticed this right after a
> > passenger
> > gettin in. Might have kicked something? The AC must have been out too
> > since
> > the windows fogged up terribly.

>
> I thought the AC cuts off (turns off) when outside temps drop to very cold?
> I had mine shut off going over the Grapevine (a piece of Interstate 5 north
> of Los Angeles) in the winter once - had the same probs with the fogging
> windows (of course I wasn't smart enough to slow down).

  #13  
Old January 24th 05, 03:31 PM
Oppie
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Posts: n/a
Default

Don't know what's going on but the AC doesn't seem to do squat to
de-humidify in cold weather. I usually wind up keeping a window open a crack
to keep the air flowing. This is the first vehicle I've had that uses R134a
refrigerant so wasn't sure if this is peculiar to this type. Other vehicles
with R12 would clear the humidity almost instantly. One of these days, I
have to get a gauge set and check the pressures. Too low a pressure and the
system shuts down to prevent evaporator freeze-up.
Fogged windows is practically the only complaint that I've had with the
lw300.
Oppie

"Dana Rohleder" > wrote in message
...
> Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you didn't
> have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly overheat
> the fan.
>
> The A/C seems to work in any temperature. When I get in the car with wet
> clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears
> them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield..
> --
> Dana C. Rohleder
> Port Kent, NY
>
> "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your
> sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005
>
>



  #14  
Old January 24th 05, 04:47 PM
Dana Rohleder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up
almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather, contrary
to other poster's claims that it doesn't work under 40 degrees. Possibly
there is enough heat/moisture exchange just in the interior coil alone to
drop the dewpoint enough to clear the windows.

--
Dana
2002 LW300




"Oppie" > wrote in message
news:1106577099.d8b7089788cc16c4a2ee7620b32966f8@t eranews...
> Don't know what's going on but the AC doesn't seem to do squat to
> de-humidify in cold weather. I usually wind up keeping a window open a
> crack to keep the air flowing. This is the first vehicle I've had that
> uses R134a refrigerant so wasn't sure if this is peculiar to this type.
> Other vehicles with R12 would clear the humidity almost instantly. One of
> these days, I have to get a gauge set and check the pressures. Too low a
> pressure and the system shuts down to prevent evaporator freeze-up.
> Fogged windows is practically the only complaint that I've had with the
> lw300.
> Oppie
>
> "Dana Rohleder" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you didn't
>> have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly overheat
>> the fan.
>>
>> The A/C seems to work in any temperature. When I get in the car with wet
>> clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears
>> them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield..
>> --
>> Dana C. Rohleder
>> Port Kent, NY
>>
>> "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your
>> sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005
>>
>>

>
>



  #15  
Old January 24th 05, 06:44 PM
C. E. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well at sub-zero temperatures, there is no way the A/C is
going to kick in. It is clearing the window becasue heating
the outside air is lowering the humidity. In the summer, you
need the A/C to lower the humidty since you are bringing in
warm moist air. Without the A/C you'd never be able to lower
the humidity in the summer without baking yourself. in the
winter, when the weather is really cold, just heating the
outside air with the heater core is enough to lower the
humidity. According to the shop manual for my Saturn Vue,
the compressor is disabled in the intake air temerpature
drops below 36 degrees F and is not enabled again until the
temperature goes above 40 degrees F. I believe all cars are
similar. There is very little difference between R12 and
R134a as far as low temperature operation is concerned.

For the curious, here is the Compressor Clutch Control
Parameters for a Saturn Vue (4 cylinder):

Compressor Control Logic

The A/C compressor and engine cooling fan will be controlled
by PCM/ECM/BCM control logic under the following conditions:

Coolant Temperature

Disabled if engine coolant temperature exceeds 117°C (242°F)
..
Enabled when coolant temperature is 114°C (237°F) .

Low Intake Air Temperature

Disabled if intake air temperature goes below 2°C (36°F)
Enabled when intake air temperature is above 4°C (40°F) .

A/C System Pressure

High

Disabled if A/C system pressure exceeds 2945 kPa (427 psi) .
Enabled when A/C system pressure is 2069 kPa (300 psi) .

Low

Disabled if A/C system pressure goes below 210 kPa (31 psi)
..
Enabled when A/C system pressure is 259 kPa (38 psi) .

Engine Speed

High

Disabled if engine speed exceeds 6250 rpm .
Enabled if engine speed goes below 4750 rpm .

Low

Disabled if engine speed goes below 350 rpm .
Enabled if engine speed exceeds 600 rpm .

Throttle Position

Disabled if throttle position exceeds 95% .
Enabled when throttle position goes below 89% for 15 seconds
..

Battery Voltage

High

Disabled if battery voltage exceeds 18 volts .
Enabled when battery voltage is less than 17 volts .

Low

Disabled if battery voltage goes below 10.5 volts .
Enabled when battery voltage exceeds 11 volts .

Evaporator Low Ambient Protection (ELAP)

The refrigerant temperature at the temperature sensor in the
TXV controls cycling of the compressor clutch to prevent
freezing of the evaporator core. The compressor is disabled
when the temperature goes below 3°C (37°F) and vehicle speed
is greater than 8 km/h (5 mph) . The compressor Is enabled
when the temperature exceeds 4°C (40°F) . The minimum time
off is 4 seconds .

Compressor Engagement During Engine Crank

The compressor clutch is engaged during engine cranking to
cycle oil through the A/C system. The clutch is engaged when
the engine speed is above 100 rpm .


Regards,

Ed White

Dana Rohleder wrote:
>
> Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up
> almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather, contrary
> to other poster's claims that it doesn't work under 40 degrees. Possibly
> there is enough heat/moisture exchange just in the interior coil alone to
> drop the dewpoint enough to clear the windows.
>
> --
> Dana
> 2002 LW300
>
> "Oppie" > wrote in message
> news:1106577099.d8b7089788cc16c4a2ee7620b32966f8@t eranews...
> > Don't know what's going on but the AC doesn't seem to do squat to
> > de-humidify in cold weather. I usually wind up keeping a window open a
> > crack to keep the air flowing. This is the first vehicle I've had that
> > uses R134a refrigerant so wasn't sure if this is peculiar to this type.
> > Other vehicles with R12 would clear the humidity almost instantly. One of
> > these days, I have to get a gauge set and check the pressures. Too low a
> > pressure and the system shuts down to prevent evaporator freeze-up.
> > Fogged windows is practically the only complaint that I've had with the
> > lw300.
> > Oppie
> >
> > "Dana Rohleder" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you didn't
> >> have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly overheat
> >> the fan.
> >>
> >> The A/C seems to work in any temperature. When I get in the car with wet
> >> clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears
> >> them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield..
> >> --
> >> Dana C. Rohleder
> >> Port Kent, NY
> >>
> >> "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your
> >> sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005
> >>
> >>

> >
> >

  #16  
Old January 24th 05, 09:46 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:59:22 -0500, "Oppie" >
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
>> Don't have traction control(don't know if it would have worked on the
>> unplowed hills we have), but have spider-spikes. My SL2 rammed
>> throught even plowed up snow like it wasn't there. Traveling even
>> felt better in deeper snow.
>>
>> I love em, and I didn't even get my hands dirty putting them on.
>>

>
>
>Neve heard of 'spider spikes'. What are they?
>


http://www.spikes-spiders.com/

>I thought about getting studded snow tires but I spend most of my driving on
>the highway. For the few times I would need them, the noise wasn't worth it.


Good thing about these things, they go on easy, and really bite into
the snow. I was climbing snow packed/icey roades 4x4 were having a
hard time on. Now remember they should come off when you don't need
them, since on dry payment they feel like driving on rail road ties.


>
> Oppie
>



later,

tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com



  #17  
Old January 24th 05, 11:24 PM
Dana Rohleder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

But you are always heating outside air when the heater is on unless you have
recirc on - correct? I never run recirc, just the normal heater. But if the
interior fogs, with the heat on, all I do is turn on the A/C button without
changing any heater settings and the windows clear very quickly. Keep in
mind, this isn't a Vue, so the system may be set up differently. I don't
know if the HVAC unit is Opel (Europe) or not. Possibly the air circulating
over the evaporator coil alone when you activate the switch takes out the
humidity, but I don't know why it would if the A/C wasn't operating.

--
Dana C. Rohleder
Port Kent, NY

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
> Well at sub-zero temperatures, there is no way the A/C is
> going to kick in. It is clearing the window becasue heating
> the outside air is lowering the humidity. In the summer, you
> need the A/C to lower the humidty since you are bringing in
> warm moist air. Without the A/C you'd never be able to lower
> the humidity in the summer without baking yourself. in the
> winter, when the weather is really cold, just heating the
> outside air with the heater core is enough to lower the
> humidity. According to the shop manual for my Saturn Vue,
> the compressor is disabled in the intake air temerpature
> drops below 36 degrees F and is not enabled again until the
> temperature goes above 40 degrees F. I believe all cars are
> similar. There is very little difference between R12 and
> R134a as far as low temperature operation is concerned.
>
> For the curious, here is the Compressor Clutch Control
> Parameters for a Saturn Vue (4 cylinder):
>
> Compressor Control Logic
>
> The A/C compressor and engine cooling fan will be controlled
> by PCM/ECM/BCM control logic under the following conditions:
>
> Coolant Temperature
>
> Disabled if engine coolant temperature exceeds 117°C (242°F)
> .
> Enabled when coolant temperature is 114°C (237°F) .
>
> Low Intake Air Temperature
>
> Disabled if intake air temperature goes below 2°C (36°F)
> Enabled when intake air temperature is above 4°C (40°F) .
>
> A/C System Pressure
>
> High
>
> Disabled if A/C system pressure exceeds 2945 kPa (427 psi) .
> Enabled when A/C system pressure is 2069 kPa (300 psi) .
>
> Low
>
> Disabled if A/C system pressure goes below 210 kPa (31 psi)
> .
> Enabled when A/C system pressure is 259 kPa (38 psi) .
>
> Engine Speed
>
> High
>
> Disabled if engine speed exceeds 6250 rpm .
> Enabled if engine speed goes below 4750 rpm .
>
> Low
>
> Disabled if engine speed goes below 350 rpm .
> Enabled if engine speed exceeds 600 rpm .
>
> Throttle Position
>
> Disabled if throttle position exceeds 95% .
> Enabled when throttle position goes below 89% for 15 seconds
> .
>
> Battery Voltage
>
> High
>
> Disabled if battery voltage exceeds 18 volts .
> Enabled when battery voltage is less than 17 volts .
>
> Low
>
> Disabled if battery voltage goes below 10.5 volts .
> Enabled when battery voltage exceeds 11 volts .
>
> Evaporator Low Ambient Protection (ELAP)
>
> The refrigerant temperature at the temperature sensor in the
> TXV controls cycling of the compressor clutch to prevent
> freezing of the evaporator core. The compressor is disabled
> when the temperature goes below 3°C (37°F) and vehicle speed
> is greater than 8 km/h (5 mph) . The compressor Is enabled
> when the temperature exceeds 4°C (40°F) . The minimum time
> off is 4 seconds .
>
> Compressor Engagement During Engine Crank
>
> The compressor clutch is engaged during engine cranking to
> cycle oil through the A/C system. The clutch is engaged when
> the engine speed is above 100 rpm .
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed White
>
> Dana Rohleder wrote:
>>
>> Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears
>> up
>> almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather,
>> contrary
>> to other poster's claims that it doesn't work under 40 degrees. Possibly
>> there is enough heat/moisture exchange just in the interior coil alone to
>> drop the dewpoint enough to clear the windows.
>>
>> --
>> Dana
>> 2002 LW300
>>
>> "Oppie" > wrote in message
>> news:1106577099.d8b7089788cc16c4a2ee7620b32966f8@t eranews...
>> > Don't know what's going on but the AC doesn't seem to do squat to
>> > de-humidify in cold weather. I usually wind up keeping a window open a
>> > crack to keep the air flowing. This is the first vehicle I've had that
>> > uses R134a refrigerant so wasn't sure if this is peculiar to this type.
>> > Other vehicles with R12 would clear the humidity almost instantly. One
>> > of
>> > these days, I have to get a gauge set and check the pressures. Too low
>> > a
>> > pressure and the system shuts down to prevent evaporator freeze-up.
>> > Fogged windows is practically the only complaint that I've had with the
>> > lw300.
>> > Oppie
>> >
>> > "Dana Rohleder" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you
>> >> didn't
>> >> have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly
>> >> overheat
>> >> the fan.
>> >>
>> >> The A/C seems to work in any temperature. When I get in the car with
>> >> wet
>> >> clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat
>> >> clears
>> >> them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the
>> >> windshield..
>> >> --
>> >> Dana C. Rohleder
>> >> Port Kent, NY
>> >>
>> >> "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for
>> >> your
>> >> sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >



  #18  
Old January 25th 05, 02:17 PM
Oppie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dana Rohleder" > wrote in message
...
> Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up
> almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather,
> contrary to other poster's claims that it doesn't work under 40 degrees.
> Possibly there is enough heat/moisture exchange just in the interior coil
> alone to drop the dewpoint enough to clear the windows.
>
> Dana
> 2002 LW300


Thanks Dana for the input.
The windows fog in cold weather only when the outside humidity is near 100%
and near freezing. I think that I'll monitor the compressor clutch line to
see if/when it cuts out. It is running at idle.


  #19  
Old January 25th 05, 03:35 PM
Bob Shuman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Since I did not see anyone else mention this, you can also help reduce the
interior window fogging by cleaning the window. Seems that the fog
condenses on the dust and dirt so if the window glass is perfectly clean, it
stays clearer longer.

Bob

"Oppie" > wrote in message
news:1106659072.7e3a353fc74299462bf030d9e25000d9@t eranews...
> Thanks Dana for the input.
> The windows fog in cold weather only when the outside humidity is near

100%
> and near freezing. I think that I'll monitor the compressor clutch line to
> see if/when it cuts out. It is running at idle.



  #20  
Old January 25th 05, 08:47 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:24:49 -0500, "Dana Rohleder"
> wrote:

>But you are always heating outside air when the heater is on unless you have
>recirc on - correct? I never run recirc, just the normal heater. But if the
>interior fogs, with the heat on, all I do is turn on the A/C button without
>changing any heater settings and the windows clear very quickly. Keep in
>mind, this isn't a Vue, so the system may be set up differently. I don't
>know if the HVAC unit is Opel (Europe) or not. Possibly the air circulating
>over the evaporator coil alone when you activate the switch takes out the
>humidity, but I don't know why it would if the A/C wasn't operating.



Just heating air reduces it relative humidity. By running the A/C you
remove the water content, further reducing the relative humidity. So,
both should help remove fog from inside your windows.

later,

tom @ www.ChopURL.com




 




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