Does this exhaust look like water in the cylinders?

On Thu, 17 May 2007 16:44:27 -0700, Doc wrote:

> It's losing water and it's overheating despite a new radiator, new
> thermostat, new fan clutch, full radiator and now a new temp sensor, plus
> a recent engine rebuild. The water pump seems okay, no wobble in the
> shaft. I'm stumped, and now feel like I can't drive the car until I get
> to the heart of the problem.


Yeah, I definitely wouldn't! 30,000 since total rebuild? That's not a lot.

I'm guessing these guys didn't know the engine they were dealing with, and
retorqued the head to the factory specified 59 ft/lbs without doing any
further checking.

The engine was originally designed with an asbestos HG, and at the last
possible second they respec'd the HG and never changed the torque spec.
Also, the head 'wobbles' when heated, the front stays cooler than the rear
and the uneveness in heating/cooling causes problems. You could try having
it retorqued up to 70 ft/lbs or so: this is the easy way out, but it might
be beyond that.

Still, after only 30K, you *might* luck out and it will work. I wouldn't
drive it much; the next trip would be to someone who *KNOWS* this engine!

"Doc" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> This is a short 5-sec .wmv video at the exhaust pipe. Warm engine at
> idle, mid-high 80's outside.
>
> I've been losing water and don't see where it's going. Wondering if
> I've got a head gasket issue. The engine was just rebuilt a couple of
> years ago, dangit.
>
> Thanks for all input.
>
> Video is 646 kb
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~disneyvid2/exhaust.wmv
>

If the engine was fully warmed up, with the temperature gauge in the middle,
then yes, it looks like steam in the exhaust. Check the motor oil for a
milky appearance, check the radiator for signs of oil, check the spark plugs
to see if they are unusually clean, check compression for one or more low
cylinders. If one or more of those symptoms appear, then there is a good
chance that the engine needs work.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

As a follow-up, here's additional video. It shows the exhaust at
startup where it's a bit rough, then smoothing out, then some accel
and idle in park, also idle in drive, if it yields any additional
insights. I've damped the exhaust movement with a wood block to get
rid of the noise of the pieces rattling so you hear only the engine/
exhaust sounds. Outside temp high 70's to 80 deg.

About 1min, 2.6 megs.

http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/engine_issue.wmv

On May 18, 1:35 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> "Doc" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > This is a short 5-sec .wmv video at the exhaust pipe. Warm engine at
> > idle, mid-high 80's outside.
>
> > I've been losing water and don't see where it's going. Wondering if
> > I've got a head gasket issue. The engine was just rebuilt a couple of
> > years ago, dangit.
>
> > Thanks for all input.
>
> > Video is 646 kb
>
> >http://home.mpinet.net/~disneyvid2/exhaust.wmv
>
> If the engine was fully warmed up, with the temperature gauge in the middle,
> then yes, it looks like steam in the exhaust. Check the motor oil for a
> milky appearance, check the radiator for signs of oil, check the spark plugs
> to see if they are unusually clean, check compression for one or more low
> cylinders. If one or more of those symptoms appear, then there is a good
> chance that the engine needs work.


I appreciate it. The oil and coolant intermixture doesn't seem to be
noticeable but obviously something isn't right. Will check the plugs
and compression asap.

Something I don't get though, is why would the guage indicate
overheating when all the components that move the coolant appear to be
healthy? I.e. pump seems to be okay and the radiator, hoses,
thermostat are all fresh. Temp sensor is brand new.

Doc wrote:
> As a follow-up, here's additional video. It shows the exhaust at
> startup where it's a bit rough, then smoothing out, then some accel
> and idle in park, also idle in drive, if it yields any additional
> insights. I've damped the exhaust movement with a wood block to get
> rid of the noise of the pieces rattling so you hear only the engine/
> exhaust sounds. Outside temp high 70's to 80 deg.
>
> About 1min, 2.6 megs.
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/engine_issue.wmv
>


That is stuffed, I would bet my left nut that all of your water loss is
going into the cylinder that is misfiring. If your rebuild is still
under warranty then take it back and get them to fix it. If not rip the
head off and check the gasket and get the head fully checked out, both
for flatness and chemically tested for cracks.

And don't start it any more, you may be lucky and not have any bent rods
yet.

Doc wrote:
>
> On May 18, 1:35 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> > "Doc" > wrote in message
> >
> > oups.com...
> >
> > > This is a short 5-sec .wmv video at the exhaust pipe. Warm engine at
> > > idle, mid-high 80's outside.
> >
> > > I've been losing water and don't see where it's going. Wondering if
> > > I've got a head gasket issue. The engine was just rebuilt a couple of
> > > years ago, dangit.

>
> Something I don't get though, is why would the guage indicate
> overheating when all the components that move the coolant appear to be
> healthy? I.e. pump seems to be okay and the radiator, hoses,
> thermostat are all fresh. Temp sensor is brand new.

Are you revealing that your engine is overheating? Or was that just a
hypothetical question? If the cooling system components are healthy
(your may not be) one cause would be pockets of air in the cooling
passages of the head. The air could be introduced by a breach from the
cylinder to cooling system (blown head gasket or cracked head or block).
Do you have white smoke pouring out of the exhaust when you start it up?

-jim

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"Doc" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 18, 1:35 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>> "Doc" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> > This is a short 5-sec .wmv video at the exhaust pipe. Warm engine at
>> > idle, mid-high 80's outside.
>>
>> > I've been losing water and don't see where it's going. Wondering if
>> > I've got a head gasket issue. The engine was just rebuilt a couple of
>> > years ago, dangit.
>>
>> > Thanks for all input.
>>
>> > Video is 646 kb
>>
>> >http://home.mpinet.net/~disneyvid2/exhaust.wmv
>>
>> If the engine was fully warmed up, with the temperature gauge in the
>> middle,
>> then yes, it looks like steam in the exhaust. Check the motor oil for a
>> milky appearance, check the radiator for signs of oil, check the spark
>> plugs
>> to see if they are unusually clean, check compression for one or more low
>> cylinders. If one or more of those symptoms appear, then there is a good
>> chance that the engine needs work.
>
>
> I appreciate it. The oil and coolant intermixture doesn't seem to be
> noticeable but obviously something isn't right. Will check the plugs
> and compression asap.
>
> Something I don't get though, is why would the guage indicate
> overheating when all the components that move the coolant appear to be
> healthy? I.e. pump seems to be okay and the radiator, hoses,
> thermostat are all fresh. Temp sensor is brand new.
>

There are only 5 reasons why the temperature gauge would indicate
overheating.
1) The coolant temperature is too high and the temperature gauge is
indicating correctly
2) The temp sender is incorrect or faulty
3) The wiring between the temp sender and gauge has a problem like being
grounded
4) There is a problem with the gauge
5) There is air mixed with the coolant.

I forget what kind of car you have, but it probably has a viscous coupling
for the cooling fan. When the engine is cold and shut off, the fan should
spin freely. When the engine is hot and the engine is shut off, the fan
should not spin freely - IOW, it should be connected to the engine so when
the engine turns, the fan also turns. If the fan spins freely when it is
hot, then the coupling is bad and needs replacement because it is not
sucking air through the radiator.

Other things that can cause overheating:
The radiator could have a problem like an internal clog or there is debris
blocking air flow through the radiator.
Bad radiator cap
Improper coolant mixture - too much or too little antifreeze can cause
overheating.
Bad or improperly installed thermostat - if it is not oriented correctly or
it shifted before the housing was bolted down
Ignition timing is too advanced
Head or block problem
Blockage in the exhaust
Fuel mixture too lean
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Vash The Stampede wrote:

> On Thu, 17 May 2007 13:59:34 -0700, Doc wrote:
>
>
>>Thought I'd add it's an 89 Cressida, straight 6.
>
>
> Oh...no...
>
> Actually, this looks normal. How long had the car been running?
>

NORMAL?!? for an ambient teperature IN THE MID/HIGH 80s????

If it were 60 degrees or lower and the engine just started, I'd agree.
But I've NEVER seen a "normal" engine blow vapor like that at 85 degrees
ambient, even when just started.

I'd say it looks like that's where the coolant is going, especially if
exhaust vapor has a sort of sticky sweet smeel (presuming you're using a
glycol antifreeze).

On Fri, 18 May 2007 13:23:18 -0500, Steve wrote:

> Vash The Stampede wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2007 13:59:34 -0700, Doc wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thought I'd add it's an 89 Cressida, straight 6.
>>
>>
>> Oh...no...
>>
>> Actually, this looks normal. How long had the car been running?
>>
>>
> NORMAL?!? for an ambient teperature IN THE MID/HIGH 80s????
>
> If it were 60 degrees or lower and the engine just started, I'd agree. But
> I've NEVER seen a "normal" engine blow vapor like that at 85 degrees
> ambient, even when just started.

I have the same engine in my Supra. For the first few minutes, it does
blow some somke until the engine gets warm. Maybe I have a problem, too,
but I did a tune-up in Feb or March and had no unusual symptoms on the
plugs of water in the cylinders.


>
> I'd say it looks like that's where the coolant is going, especially if
> exhaust vapor has a sort of sticky sweet smeel (presuming you're using a
> glycol antifreeze).


He should be. That's what's spec'd for this engine.

On Fri, 18 May 2007 13:44:31 +0000, someone wrote:

>>Still, after only 30K, you *might* luck out and it will work. I wouldn't
>>drive it much; the next trip would be to someone who *KNOWS* this engine!
>>
>>
> hey, don't forget the radiato bypass hose, it's very small, easy to
> overlook and can leak for months without overt signs. give it a good
> feeling up.


Bypass hose? Is that the hose to the bottle?