Oil Pressure Gauge and Engine death

Trying to get some lessons learned from my first car 'death.'

To make it short, the oil gauge started behaving curiously to me
probably last year this time. But since the oil light didnt come on,
and the pressure seemed high enough, nothing seemed wrong. This turned
out to be bad because the odd pressure behavior was probably a sign of
some engine parts that have to do with oil pressure going bad.

So the engine is shot. Loud rapping and knocking etc. And now I can
see the oil pressure gauge is doing an extreme version of what it was
doing last year. needing higher RPM to sustain higher pressure. I
couldn't have recognized it without ever seeing it before.

The question is, my new car has only the idiot light. Which of course
never lit on my blazer since the oil was actually always there. If my
engine parts start to wear out and pressure drops, how will I know it?
Or am I out of luck without a gauge. I know the light will light when
the pressure is low, but that didnt help the blazer because it was more
'odd' pressure behavior than low pressure.

Would a good mechanic see the signs early enough?

advice?

--
Thank you,


CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

If the bearings are worn and the oil is thin, then the idiot light will come on when idling. By then it is time for an engine rebuild. An oil pressure gauge is the best way to detect worn bearings. You will see a noticeable oil pressure drop long before you have any other symptoms e.g. noise or the idiot light coming on. An oil pressure gauge is the best way to convince you that you should not use 5W20 or 5W30 oil in hot whether, which is probably why most vehicles now don't have oil pressure gauges. Beware of devices (most commonly in Fords) that a salesman will tell you are oil pressure gauges, but in fact are not.

"CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" wrote:
>
> Trying to get some lessons learned from my first car 'death.'
>
> To make it short, the oil gauge started behaving curiously to me
> probably last year this time. But since the oil light didnt come on,
> and the pressure seemed high enough, nothing seemed wrong. This turned
> out to be bad because the odd pressure behavior was probably a sign of
> some engine parts that have to do with oil pressure going bad.
>
> So the engine is shot. Loud rapping and knocking etc. And now I can
> see the oil pressure gauge is doing an extreme version of what it was
> doing last year. needing higher RPM to sustain higher pressure. I
> couldn't have recognized it without ever seeing it before.
>
> The question is, my new car has only the idiot light. Which of course
> never lit on my blazer since the oil was actually always there. If my
> engine parts start to wear out and pressure drops, how will I know it?
> Or am I out of luck without a gauge. I know the light will light when
> the pressure is low, but that didnt help the blazer because it was more
> 'odd' pressure behavior than low pressure.
>
> Would a good mechanic see the signs early enough?
>
> advice?
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> CL Gilbert
> "Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
> man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

--
Mike Walsh
West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.

I think everyone would counsel the wisdom of a proper oil pressure gauge,
CL. It is fairly easy to add an aftermarket one, if you don't mind the
appearance of a nonstock installation.

Oil lights are called idiot lights for a good reason. If they are glowing
red, you may have no oil pressure at all. It is good to have a gauge
to reference the easily visible idiot light to actual pressure.

And I also counsel you to change your oil and filter rather often. It is
a very cheap insurance policy. I'm not much on oil analyses, but you
can even do that if you wish.

IMHO choose a good quality synthetic or dino oil, as your new car
requires. Select a premium filter. Sometimes, but not too often, an
OEM filter is the better choice, and they are still relatively cheap.

I change oil at 3000 mile intervals. But I realize I am a LOAF (loveable,
anachronistic old fart). In no case would I go above 5000 miles,
regardless
of when the manufacturer of car or oil says.

wrote:
> I think everyone would counsel the wisdom of a proper oil pressure gauge,
> CL. It is fairly easy to add an aftermarket one, if you don't mind the
> appearance of a nonstock installation.
>
> Oil lights are called idiot lights for a good reason. If they are glowing
> red, you may have no oil pressure at all. It is good to have a gauge
> to reference the easily visible idiot light to actual pressure.
>
> And I also counsel you to change your oil and filter rather often. It is
> a very cheap insurance policy. I'm not much on oil analyses, but you
> can even do that if you wish.
>
> IMHO choose a good quality synthetic or dino oil, as your new car
> requires. Select a premium filter. Sometimes, but not too often, an
> OEM filter is the better choice, and they are still relatively cheap.
>
> I change oil at 3000 mile intervals. But I realize I am a LOAF (loveable,
> anachronistic old fart). In no case would I go above 5000 miles,
> regardless
> of when the manufacturer of car or oil says.
>
>

Thanks for the info. I did change at about 5000mi. I think these quick
oil change places put on the cheapest oil filters that will fit. I like
to help folks keep jobs, but I don't trust these folks anymore really.
I'm going to use my regular mechanic, going forward, on my current car.
Ill see if I can find an oil pressure gauge and get one added to my
car. I use 5w30 standard as that is what blazer calls for. I live in
Michigan and it does not get too hot up here typically.

--
Thank you,


CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:
> Trying to get some lessons learned from my first car 'death.'
>
> To make it short, the oil gauge started behaving curiously to me
> probably last year this time. But since the oil light didnt come on,
> and the pressure seemed high enough, nothing seemed wrong. This turned
> out to be bad because the odd pressure behavior was probably a sign of
> some engine parts that have to do with oil pressure going bad.
>
> So the engine is shot. Loud rapping and knocking etc. And now I can
> see the oil pressure gauge is doing an extreme version of what it was
> doing last year. needing higher RPM to sustain higher pressure. I
> couldn't have recognized it without ever seeing it before.
>
> The question is, my new car has only the idiot light. Which of course
> never lit on my blazer since the oil was actually always there. If my
> engine parts start to wear out and pressure drops, how will I know it?
> Or am I out of luck without a gauge. I know the light will light when
> the pressure is low, but that didnt help the blazer because it was more
> 'odd' pressure behavior than low pressure.
>
> Would a good mechanic see the signs early enough?
>
> advice?
>

fwiw, what kind of oil pressure did you have?

the rule of thumb I've heard is 10psi per 1000rpm.

That said, when in doubt, check the manual - I've owned cars that
specify everything from 20psi to 60psi as "normal" and rpm ranging from
2000-4000 for that number.

(Mini rant -> gauges without numbers are just dumb.)

Too high is no good either. Think garden hose vs fire hose. You don't
always want the fire hose.

also, there's usually signs leading up to engine death by low oil
pressure unless the pickup falls off or something equally catastrophic.
The oil pressure gauge reading really really low at idle is one sign -
but you have to know what normal is to know what too low is.

If you're really concerned, there are oil analysis packages where you
send them used oil and they tell you what's in it and point to possible
wear issues.

Or just do what I do - change the oil and filter every three months or
3000 miles, and you'll probably never have an internal engine failure.
(Not including race cars, I've ever only had one major internal engine
problem - timing gears on my Fiero. Sustained high speed engine
operation + lousy stock lubrication + plastic gear = failure. But I
have had 5 transmission failures of all types and 2 mangled diffs,
mostly due to abuse and old age and buying beaters.)

The wife's Beretta has 226,000km on the original 3.1 and still has
perfect oil pressure. My buddy's Celebrity made it over 300,000km
before starting to knock (the oil pressure gauge would blink at idle for
months) and the rest of the car was rusted out so he got rid of it...

Oh, and you do know that if you stopped driving it and pulled the
engine, you could probably replace the engine and/or rebuild it... it's
only when a rod comes through the side of the block is it totally
finished. Or the cam comes out the back of the block in 4 pieces... (or
both on the same engine....

Ray

> wrote in message
. com...
>I think everyone would counsel the wisdom of a proper oil pressure gauge,
> CL. It is fairly easy to add an aftermarket one, if you don't mind the
> appearance of a nonstock installation.
>
> Oil lights are called idiot lights for a good reason. If they are glowing
> red, you may have no oil pressure at all. It is good to have a gauge
> to reference the easily visible idiot light to actual pressure.
>
> And I also counsel you to change your oil and filter rather often. It is
> a very cheap insurance policy. I'm not much on oil analyses, but you
> can even do that if you wish.
>
> IMHO choose a good quality synthetic or dino oil, as your new car
> requires. Select a premium filter. Sometimes, but not too often, an
> OEM filter is the better choice, and they are still relatively cheap.
>
> I change oil at 3000 mile intervals. But I realize I am a LOAF (loveable,
> anachronistic old fart). In no case would I go above 5000 miles,
> regardless
> of when the manufacturer of car or oil says.

I would rather have a reliable oil level display. Low oil pressure is a
symptom, not a cause, of engine problems.

CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:

> Trying to get some lessons learned from my first car 'death.'
>
> To make it short, the oil gauge started behaving curiously to me
> probably last year this time. But since the oil light didnt come on,
> and the pressure seemed high enough, nothing seemed wrong. This turned
> out to be bad because the odd pressure behavior was probably a sign of
> some engine parts that have to do with oil pressure going bad.
>
> So the engine is shot. Loud rapping and knocking etc. And now I can
> see the oil pressure gauge is doing an extreme version of what it was
> doing last year. needing higher RPM to sustain higher pressure. I
> couldn't have recognized it without ever seeing it before.
>
> The question is, my new car has only the idiot light. Which of course
> never lit on my blazer since the oil was actually always there. If my
> engine parts start to wear out and pressure drops, how will I know it?
> Or am I out of luck without a gauge. I know the light will light when
> the pressure is low, but that didnt help the blazer because it was more
> 'odd' pressure behavior than low pressure.


I can't help pointing out that a gauge, which WAS indicating a problem,
didn't stop you from wrecking the last engine by continuing to operate
it, so why would it matter now?

Of course a gauge is far better than an idiot light because once you get
used to what "normal" behavior is you can observe changes from normal
that would indicate a clogging oil filter (or one with a collapsed
element), weak oil pump, too much pressure loss in the engine, etc.
whereas a light just comes on when the pressure is far too low to
sustain the engine. But that said, a WHOLE lot of cars on the road have
"idiot gauges" that don't read true engine oil pressure, but just snap
up to an "acceptable" zone when a pressure switch closes. The
manufacturers got tired of unnecessary service calls because so many
drivers don't understand that oil pressure DOES vary with engine speed,
engine temperature, oil grade, oil age, filter type, and lots of other
conditions. Its actually a fairly hard to tell if something is or isn't
going wrong by looking at an oil pressure gauge on a randomly picked car
UNLESS you know how that engine's oil pressure behaves normally. Some
engines are perfectly healthy with 40 PSI of oil pressure at 5000 RPM,
others would have to be extremely worn to show that little pressure at
that speed.

And as an aside, I still haven't seen conclusive evidence of what really
went wrong with your blazer engine. You still haven't described what the
"odd" behavior was.

Chas Hurst wrote:

>
> I would rather have a reliable oil level display.

Every car on the road has one. Its called a "dipstick." Ironically,
people who don't use that indicator are often called the same thing... ;-)


> Low oil pressure is a
> symptom, not a cause, of engine problems.

Not always. Low oil pressure may be a symptom of worn bearings. Its also
an indicator of an oil filter that has collapsed internally, and should
be replaced. Failure to do so can CAUSE engine damage that could have
been prevented by reacting to low oil pressure and replacing the $3.00
filter instead of a $2500 engine. Its an indiator of a blocked or broken
oil pickup screen that will starve the engine for oil and destroy it,
but which is very cheap to fix before any damage is done. Its an
indicator that the dummies at Jiffy Gloop put 5w20 oil in an engine that
needs 10w30. And on and on and on.


A low oil pressure warning is FAR more important than a low oil level
warning when the engine is operating. For one thing, you can have a
crankcase full of oil, but the engine will still starve for oil and
seize if the oil pump isn't pressurizing the oil system, if the filter
is clogged, if the pickup screen is blocked (eg due to a dented oil
pan), etc. etc. etc. Conversely, and engine will survive being 3 quarts
low on oil for a time without any damage whatsoever, provided that
there's still enough oil to submerge the pickup so that it doesn't draw
in air (which, by the way, will be indicated by the oil pressure gauge).

You need an oil LEVEL indication when doing routine checks (weekly is a
good idea). You need an oil PRESSURE indication any time the engine is
running. Big difference.

Mike Walsh > wrote:
>
>If the bearings are worn and the oil is thin, then the idiot light will come on when idling. By then it is time for an engine rebuild. An oil pressure gauge is the best way to detect worn bearings. You will see a noticeable oil pressure drop long before you have any other symptoms e.g. noise or the idiot light coming on. An oil pressure gauge is the best way to convince you that you should not use 5W20 or 5W30 oil in hot whether, which is probably why most vehicles now don't have oil pressure gauges.

Note that a failing oil pump will also tend to have similar symptoms, and
it's a lot cheaper to replace an oil pump than an engine.

>Beware of devices (most commonly in Fords) that a salesman will tell you are oil pressure gauges, but in fact are not."

I am sorry to report that a LOT of companies are doing this, not just
Ford. Even companies that really should know better, like BMW.
It is absolutely shameful.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Steve" > wrote in message
news
>
> Not always. Low oil pressure may be a symptom of worn bearings. Its also
> an indicator of an oil filter that has collapsed internally, and should
> be replaced. Failure to do so can CAUSE engine damage that could have
> been prevented by reacting to low oil pressure and replacing the $3.00
> filter instead of a $2500 engine. Its an indiator of a blocked or broken
> oil pickup screen that will starve the engine for oil and destroy it,
> but which is very cheap to fix before any damage is done. Its an
> indicator that the dummies at Jiffy Gloop put 5w20 oil in an engine that
> needs 10w30. And on and on and on.
>
>
> A low oil pressure warning is FAR more important than a low oil level
> warning when the engine is operating. For one thing, you can have a
> crankcase full of oil, but the engine will still starve for oil and
> seize if the oil pump isn't pressurizing the oil system, if the filter
> is clogged, if the pickup screen is blocked (eg due to a dented oil
> pan), etc. etc. etc. Conversely, and engine will survive being 3 quarts
> low on oil for a time without any damage whatsoever, provided that
> there's still enough oil to submerge the pickup so that it doesn't draw
> in air (which, by the way, will be indicated by the oil pressure gauge).
>
> You need an oil LEVEL indication when doing routine checks (weekly is a
> good idea). You need an oil PRESSURE indication any time the engine is
> running. Big difference.

Agree 1000%. Oil level doesn't mean a damn thing if the pump cant pick
it up and circulate it.

Worn pumps, or weakened oil pressure regulators in the pumps, can let
oil pressure drop to extremely low values, as well as the above comments
by Steve. Occasionally, an oil pump pickup arm will come loose, allowing
the
pump to suck air instead of oil. You really don't want that to happen.

Oil analyses cost money which could be better spent on an oil change and
a filter.