Westco dead again.

Lanny Chambers wrote:
> In article >, "Chuck" >
> wrote:
>
>> There usually is some drain, called "dark current". Such things as
>> the radio memory & clock, car alarm, ECU memory (trim settings) keep
>> alive, etc. Usually an aftermarket car alarm is the culprit.
>
> Dark current on a stock NA Miata is no more than 20 mA, just the radio
> presets, clock, and stored ECU error codes. Aftermarket alarms, of
> course, can add any amount from very little to a dead short.

Ooops. Of course I have radio presets and clock. That can't account for a
dead battery after 3 weeks of sitting. After all, I've gone away often for
that long and not had a problem. I think it was a bad battery from the
get-go. MK battery replaced it without a problem. They didn't even bother
to test the old one.

The battery that went dead was purchased January 9, 2010. The car is a
stock '96.

Chuck wrote:
> Assuming 20ma dark current, that would amount to about 10AH over three
> weeks. An older battery might not have that much spare capacity.
> Actually, I'd bet that the newer years have a bit higher dark
> current, and aftemarket accessories might be involved as well.
> "Lanny Chambers" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, "Chuck"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> There usually is some drain, called "dark current". Such things as
>>> the radio
>>> memory & clock, car alarm, ECU memory (trim settings) keep alive,
>>> etc. Usually an aftermarket car alarm is the culprit.
>>
>> Dark current on a stock NA Miata is no more than 20 mA, just the
>> radio presets, clock, and stored ECU error codes. Aftermarket
>> alarms, of course, can add any amount from very little to a dead
>> short. --
>> Lanny Chambers
>> St. Louis, MO
>> '94C

Might have been a bad battery. Or, it needed to be "slow charged before it
was put in service.
Earlier this week, I had to replace the battery on my 99. The old battery
was all of two years old.
A couple of weeks setting with an underhood courtesy light on (bad switch)
caused the problem.
Anyway, after setting overnight, the new battery measured 13.3 V a bit under
full charge. An over night slow charge
brought it up to full charge.
The cranking speed is noticably different as you go from a bad battery
(below 12V) to a partially charged and then a fully charged battery.
This car has had a history of battery problems. The initial port inspection
failed the OEM battery, then passed it by one thousanth of a volt after
charging.
On delivery, Cranking was a bit slow, but possible with a brand new engine.
Two weeks later, it was obvious that the battery wasn't up to snuff.
(Warrenty OEM replacement with Westco, dealer did not have OEM battery)
Several years later, problems with bad coil packs and a cam sensor led to
the demise of this and a second Wesco battery. Ended up replacing the Wescos
with a glass mat battery
(private label) carried by my local battery/alternator/starter shop. That
battery was the one I just replaced.

"Frank Berger" > wrote in message
m...
> Lanny Chambers wrote:
>> In article >, "Chuck" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There usually is some drain, called "dark current". Such things as
>>> the radio memory & clock, car alarm, ECU memory (trim settings) keep
>>> alive, etc. Usually an aftermarket car alarm is the culprit.
>>
>> Dark current on a stock NA Miata is no more than 20 mA, just the radio
>> presets, clock, and stored ECU error codes. Aftermarket alarms, of
>> course, can add any amount from very little to a dead short.
>
> Ooops. Of course I have radio presets and clock. That can't account for
> a dead battery after 3 weeks of sitting. After all, I've gone away often
> for that long and not had a problem. I think it was a bad battery from
> the get-go. MK battery replaced it without a problem. They didn't even
> bother to test the old one.
>

In article >,
"Chuck" > wrote:

> Ended up replacing the Wescos
> with a glass mat battery
> (private label) carried by my local battery/alternator/starter shop.

Most domestic AGM batteries regardless of brand seem to be made by East
Penn Manufacturing, including Westco. Ditto for many brands of wet
batteries.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Frank Berger wrote:
> Lanny Chambers wrote:
>> In article >, "Chuck"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> There usually is some drain, called "dark current". Such things as
>>> the radio memory & clock, car alarm, ECU memory (trim settings) keep
>>> alive, etc. Usually an aftermarket car alarm is the culprit.
>>
>> Dark current on a stock NA Miata is no more than 20 mA, just the
>> radio presets, clock, and stored ECU error codes. Aftermarket
>> alarms, of course, can add any amount from very little to a dead
>> short.
>
> Ooops. Of course I have radio presets and clock. That can't account
> for a dead battery after 3 weeks of sitting. After all, I've gone
> away often for that long and not had a problem. I think it was a bad
> battery from the get-go. MK battery replaced it without a problem. They
> didn't even bother to test the old one.


Got home today to find a message from the guy at MK battery. He said they
tested the battery I returned and that it was OK and that I should have the
car checked. Meanwhile, the new battery is fine and is cranking with more
power than the old one (just bought Jan. 9, remember) ever did. I'm
inclined to think tha old battery wasn't properly charged in the first place
and that leaving it for 3 weeks (including some sub-freezing weather) killed
it. Opinions?

In article > ,
"Frank Berger" > wrote:

> I'm
> inclined to think tha old battery wasn't properly charged in the first place
> and that leaving it for 3 weeks (including some sub-freezing weather) killed
> it. Opinions?

Like I said, AGM batteries may not be the right choice for cars that
aren't driven frequently, especially in cold weather, unless they're
kept on a maintenance charge or disconnected while idle. I never had a
problem until I started working from home.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Lanny Chambers wrote:
> In article > ,
> "Frank Berger" > wrote:
>
>> I'm
>> inclined to think tha old battery wasn't properly charged in the
>> first place and that leaving it for 3 weeks (including some
>> sub-freezing weather) killed it. Opinions?
>
> Like I said, AGM batteries may not be the right choice for cars that
> aren't driven frequently, especially in cold weather, unless they're
> kept on a maintenance charge or disconnected while idle. I never had a
> problem until I started working from home.

OK. So you think it would be adequate simply to disconnect it next time I
go away for 3 weeks in the winter?

In article > ,
"Frank Berger" > wrote:

> So you think it would be adequate simply to disconnect it next time I
> go away for 3 weeks in the winter?

That's what I'd try. You can buy a "battery saver" that will
automagcally disconnect the battery if the voltage falls below the level
necessary to start the engine. I don't know how well they work.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

On 2010-03-01 9:03 AM, Lanny Chambers wrote:
> In article<ppydnarKg9XFpRbWnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@supernews .com>,
> "Frank > wrote:
>
>> So you think it would be adequate simply to disconnect it next time I
>> go away for 3 weeks in the winter?
>
> That's what I'd try. You can buy a "battery saver" that will
> automagcally disconnect the battery if the voltage falls below the level
> necessary to start the engine. I don't know how well they work.
>
I just use a 1-amp trickle charger all winter. Works great! Battery
does not freeze at 40 below, and maintains a full charge.

Stuart H.

I'm beginning to hate 12v batteries!
So far in the last two months or so.
Batteries on lawnmower, leaf vacuum, Miata, and yesterday, the emergency
15kw generator battery gave me trouble!
(Slow charge, and then sort of OK until next time.)
Not to mention that two of the computer backup units had bad batteries!
It was not worth the trouble to replace the backup ups batteries, just
replaced the whole thing. Replacement batteries cost almost as much as a
whole new unit.
The Miata battery (earlier in the thread) was still usable, but did not
have much over 50% rated capacity available. (Replaced)
During the Christmas holidays, my wife's 05 Impala battery failed and had to
be replaced. Quit in the W-Mart parking lot.
No one around at about mid-night in the W/M automotive section, and the
correct replacement battery was not on the ready rack.
Jump started the 05 to get it home, and got a new battery the next day.
This afternoon, my old Garmin GPS complained about a "Low Memory Battery"
(with new AA batteries yet!) There must be one of the coin cells inside.
There must be a conspiracy going to keep the battery Mfrs afloat!

"Frank Berger" > wrote in message
m...
> Top posting becayse you did.
>
> Don't have none of that stuff.
>
> Chuck wrote:
>> There usually is some drain, called "dark current". Such things as
>> the radio memory & clock, car alarm, ECU memory (trim settings) keep
>> alive, etc. Usually an aftermarket car alarm is the culprit.
>>
>> "Frank Berger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Chuck wrote:
>>>> On 2/17/2010 2:13 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>> Battery a month or two old. Car sat for 3 weeks while we were on
>>>>> vacation. Won't crank. Thoughts? Just a bad battery?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I had sort of the same problem! 2 year old glass mat battery. It
>>>> died due to an after market under hood courtesy light switch stuck
>>>> on for several days. The battery was completely flat. Overnight
>>>> charging got just enough into the battery to get a slow crank with
>>>> (fortunately) a start. The battery had higher than normal internal
>>>> resistance, and after additional charging still dropped lower in
>>>> voltage than it should under a starting load. Replaced with another
>>>> glass mat battery. I'm fortunate in that we have a local
>>>> multi-generation family owned battery, starter, and alternator shop
>>>> that carries batteries for Miatas.
>>>
>>> I don't think there was any drain on the battery. There's an MK
>>> Battery about 12 miles from where I live where I get the Westco. I'll
>>> return the battery and get a replacement for full credit, I'm
>>> sure. Hopefully this afternoon.
>
>