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Porsche 944 taillight question



 
 
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  #41  
Old January 14th 05, 02:29 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:

> > reaction to brake lights is quicker when they are combination
> > brake/tail units. Your way (with P21 bulb) would also take away your
> > sideward visibility of the taillamp/sidemarker, which is definitely a
> > step backwards.


> Any reason for that assertion?


Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the taillamps
and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying attention to gets
5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays the same and another red
light comes on in a different location. The amount of difference is fairly
well related to the distance between the tail and brake functions, which
means Volvo has got it wrong.

Ads
  #42  
Old January 14th 05, 03:34 AM
Garth Almgren
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Around 1/11/2005 3:53 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since
> some lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge
> don't hang out in Porsche-land.


Heh. Since Judy hasn't replied to this thread yet, I'll beat him to it:

You want to improve your vehicle's lighting?!?!!!11/? What kind of
bloddthirsty loonball are you?



--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
  #43  
Old January 14th 05, 03:34 AM
Garth Almgren
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Around 1/11/2005 3:53 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since
> some lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge
> don't hang out in Porsche-land.


Heh. Since Judy hasn't replied to this thread yet, I'll beat him to it:

You want to improve your vehicle's lighting?!?!!!11/? What kind of
bloddthirsty loonball are you?



--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
  #44  
Old January 14th 05, 04:55 AM
Nate Nagel
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:
>
>
>>>reaction to brake lights is quicker when they are combination
>>>brake/tail units. Your way (with P21 bulb) would also take away your
>>>sideward visibility of the taillamp/sidemarker, which is definitely a
>>>step backwards.

>
>
>>Any reason for that assertion?

>
>
> Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the taillamps
> and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying attention to gets
> 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays the same and another red
> light comes on in a different location. The amount of difference is fairly
> well related to the distance between the tail and brake functions, which
> means Volvo has got it wrong.
>


just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a
deal it really is?

anyway, in case anyone still cares about this anal retentive saga, I found:

http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm

shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern...

http://www.po944.de/images/po944_25.htm

appears to have rear fog switch just to the left of the front fog
switch, as I expected

finally

http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html

sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, not the
outside segments as well... so probably buying euro bulbholders
wouldn't do a thing for me anyway... (yeah, insomnia makes you do weird
things I guess. Hoodathunk there'd be so many pics of 944s online but
so few of Euro models with the lights on?)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #45  
Old January 14th 05, 04:55 AM
Nate Nagel
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Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:
>
>
>>>reaction to brake lights is quicker when they are combination
>>>brake/tail units. Your way (with P21 bulb) would also take away your
>>>sideward visibility of the taillamp/sidemarker, which is definitely a
>>>step backwards.

>
>
>>Any reason for that assertion?

>
>
> Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the taillamps
> and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying attention to gets
> 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays the same and another red
> light comes on in a different location. The amount of difference is fairly
> well related to the distance between the tail and brake functions, which
> means Volvo has got it wrong.
>


just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a
deal it really is?

anyway, in case anyone still cares about this anal retentive saga, I found:

http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm

shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern...

http://www.po944.de/images/po944_25.htm

appears to have rear fog switch just to the left of the front fog
switch, as I expected

finally

http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html

sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, not the
outside segments as well... so probably buying euro bulbholders
wouldn't do a thing for me anyway... (yeah, insomnia makes you do weird
things I guess. Hoodathunk there'd be so many pics of 944s online but
so few of Euro models with the lights on?)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #46  
Old January 14th 05, 05:46 AM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:

> > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the
> > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying
> > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays
> > the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The
> > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between
> > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong.


> just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a
> deal it really is?


Not huge, but present and significant.

> http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm
> shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern...
> http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html
> sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights,


Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link above,
looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same
photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical line
running downward from the hatch lock:

http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg

Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp
visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet convinced
that it is.

I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind the
retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a few
of them myself, even.

DS
  #47  
Old January 14th 05, 05:46 AM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:

> > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the
> > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying
> > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays
> > the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The
> > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between
> > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong.


> just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a
> deal it really is?


Not huge, but present and significant.

> http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm
> shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern...
> http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html
> sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights,


Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link above,
looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same
photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical line
running downward from the hatch lock:

http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg

Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp
visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet convinced
that it is.

I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind the
retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a few
of them myself, even.

DS
  #48  
Old January 14th 05, 08:07 PM
N8N
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Posts: n/a
Default


Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> > > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the
> > > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying
> > > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp

stays
> > > the same and another red light comes on in a different location.

The
> > > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance

between
> > > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong.

>
> > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of

a
> > deal it really is?

>
> Not huge, but present and significant.
>
> > http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm
> > shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern...
> > http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html
> > sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights,

>
> Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link

above,
> looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same
> photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical

line
> running downward from the hatch lock:
>
> http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg
>
> Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp
> visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet

convinced
> that it is.
>
> I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind

the
> retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a

few
> of them myself, even.
>
> DS


I dunno, it looks like the owner of that site took all the pics with
the lights on, note that in the front pics the fog lights are on as
well. I've seen the taillights both ways (on various Euro cars) and I
really don't know which is correct at this point. Would sure like some
confirmation, but that was the most "definitive" pic I could find after
an image search for all the 944 images I could find...

nate

  #49  
Old January 14th 05, 08:07 PM
N8N
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Posts: n/a
Default


Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> > > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the
> > > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying
> > > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp

stays
> > > the same and another red light comes on in a different location.

The
> > > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance

between
> > > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong.

>
> > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of

a
> > deal it really is?

>
> Not huge, but present and significant.
>
> > http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm
> > shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern...
> > http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html
> > sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights,

>
> Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link

above,
> looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same
> photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical

line
> running downward from the hatch lock:
>
> http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg
>
> Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp
> visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet

convinced
> that it is.
>
> I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind

the
> retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a

few
> of them myself, even.
>
> DS


I dunno, it looks like the owner of that site took all the pics with
the lights on, note that in the front pics the fog lights are on as
well. I've seen the taillights both ways (on various Euro cars) and I
really don't know which is correct at this point. Would sure like some
confirmation, but that was the most "definitive" pic I could find after
an image search for all the 944 images I could find...

nate

  #50  
Old January 14th 05, 09:19 PM
Ulf
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Posts: n/a
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N8N wrote:
>
> I dunno, it looks like the owner of that site took all the pics with
> the lights on, note that in the front pics the fog lights are on as
> well.


Are you sure they're fog lights? Looks like high beams to me. I know on
my BMW I can activate the high beams without the lights on (otherwise
the flash to pass feature wouldn't work).

> I've seen the taillights both ways (on various Euro cars) and I
> really don't know which is correct at this point. Would sure like some
> confirmation, but that was the most "definitive" pic I could find after
> an image search for all the 944 images I could find...


Why don't you contact the owner, I'm sure he speaks some English... :-)

BTW, you have tried searching for "porsche 944 rear" (or similar) on
Google's image search, right?

>
> nate
>

Ulf
 




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