Shocks & Les Schwab?

Hey everybody,

My NB is closing in on 40K miles (got her around 30K) and I'm thinking
some new shocks would not be a bad idea. Also I've just started
getting into autocross so I probably want to get an alignment at some
point, too. I'm not real hard core (at this point) so for both of
these things I would be satisfied if I could ideally achieve some gain
in performance driving while not making a significant sacrifice in
liveability for everyday stuff, road trips and the like.

So after poking around on the web a bit, the KYB AGX shocks look like
a decent candidate. Although at least one site claims the KONIs are
"just a little better," the KYBs seem like they may be more user-
friendly as far as ease of adjusting, and not requiring certain parts
to be drilled out to install.

Also, I discovered Les Schwab carries the KYB AGXs, which would make
it easy for me as there's one nearby, and with any luck their pricing
may be reasonable. Would there be anything wrong with going to Les
for the shocks? I don't really know if this is a job that can be done
poorly, but the only issue I can think of is if they wanted to do an
alignment as well – for that, since I want some autocross- (and maybe
track?-)friendly bias, I think it would be better to go to seek out
some shop with experience in those applications. Of course, I could
have the specialty shop do everything, but I've only managed to find
one or two possibilities so far, both of them pretty far away and I'm
not sure how good they are. If Les Schwab is good to do the shocks, I
could at least get that taken care of now, and then take my time
finding a good shop for the other stuff.

Thoughts, advice appreciated.

In article
>,
wrote:

> So after poking around on the web a bit, the KYB AGX shocks look like
> a decent candidate. Although at least one site claims the KONIs are
> "just a little better," the KYBs seem like they may be more user-
> friendly as far as ease of adjusting, and not requiring certain parts
> to be drilled out to install.

Konis ARE better, and worth the extra money. With stock springs, just
leave Konis on full soft--no need to fiddle constantly with the
adjustment. Consider installing performance bumpstops from Flyin Miata
or Fat Cat Motorsports while everything is apart. Sooner or later,
you'll want to upgrade the swaybars as well, but that can wait if
money's an issue.

Drilling out the top mounts is a trivial task, even more so if one has a
drill press. But installing Miata shocks takes several hours, about four
hours if you do it yourself in the driveway without power tools, half
that for a pro who's done it before; that's assuming none of the bolts
are seriously frozen. Shop installation typically runs $250-400, not
including parts or an alignment.

See the shock replacement instructions in the miata.net Garage section.

Choose an alignment shop carefully. Make sure they will align precisely
to custom specs, not just get the needle into the green. Ask other Miata
owners for referrals.

I've developed some performance alignment specs that seem to work well
for many NA/NB owners, without causing tire wear problems:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

When you're finished, you won't believe it's the same car!

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

On May 15, 8:06*am, Lanny Chambers > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> wrote:
> > So after poking around on the web a bit, the KYB AGX shocks look like
> > a decent candidate. *Although at least one site claims the KONIs are
> > "just a little better," the KYBs seem like they may be more user-
> > friendly as far as ease of adjusting, and not requiring certain parts
> > to be drilled out to install.
>
> Konis ARE better, and worth the extra money. With stock springs, just
> leave Konis on full soft--no need to fiddle constantly with the
> adjustment. Consider installing performance bumpstops from Flyin Miata
> or Fat Cat Motorsports while everything is apart. Sooner or later,
> you'll want to upgrade the swaybars as well, but that can wait if
> money's an issue.
>
> Drilling out the top mounts is a trivial task, even more so if one has a
> drill press. But installing Miata shocks takes several hours, about four
> hours if you do it yourself in the driveway without power tools, half
> that for a pro who's done it before; that's assuming none of the bolts
> are seriously frozen. Shop installation typically runs $250-400, not
> including parts or an alignment.
>
> See the shock replacement instructions in the miata.net Garage section.
>
> Choose an alignment shop carefully. Make sure they will align precisely
> to custom specs, not just get the needle into the green. Ask other Miata
> owners for referrals.
>
> I've developed some performance alignment specs that seem to work well
> for many NA/NB owners, without causing tire wear problems:http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
>
> When you're finished, you won't believe it's the same car!

Woohoo! Thanks, Lanny. Reckon I might go with Konis after all, and
an alignment, when I find a good shop.

As far as the other suspension upgrades, I do have one question. I've
had a lot of fun at the three autocrosses I've done, and can see
myself continuing with it. Now, at a certain point I will cease being
a "novice" and will have to run in one of the other classes. From
what I understand, the "stock" classes allow you to change the front
swaybar, but not the rear (which seems like a weird place to draw the
line). If you change the rear, you are obliged to run in one of the
classes that allow extensive mods, and then the dilemma comes up
whether you want to invest that much effort and expense to make your
car "competitive," or simply ignore where your car happens to stack up
and just race for the fun and personal challenge of it.

Do you think changing just the front swaybar at some point (so as to
stay within the rules for stock class, as well as the corresponding
street tire class) would be worth doing on an NB? Or would you say
just do 'em both or don't do 'em.

Eric

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I don't think having the shocks installed by
Earl would be a horrible thing. You can do it yourself if you're good with
tools. Be careful with the spring compression!

Chris
99BBB

> wrote in message
...
On May 15, 8:06 am, Lanny Chambers > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> wrote:
> > So after poking around on the web a bit, the KYB AGX shocks look like
> > a decent candidate. Although at least one site claims the KONIs are
> > "just a little better," the KYBs seem like they may be more user-
> > friendly as far as ease of adjusting, and not requiring certain parts
> > to be drilled out to install.
>
> Konis ARE better, and worth the extra money. With stock springs, just
> leave Konis on full soft--no need to fiddle constantly with the
> adjustment. Consider installing performance bumpstops from Flyin Miata
> or Fat Cat Motorsports while everything is apart. Sooner or later,
> you'll want to upgrade the swaybars as well, but that can wait if
> money's an issue.
>
> Drilling out the top mounts is a trivial task, even more so if one has a
> drill press. But installing Miata shocks takes several hours, about four
> hours if you do it yourself in the driveway without power tools, half
> that for a pro who's done it before; that's assuming none of the bolts
> are seriously frozen. Shop installation typically runs $250-400, not
> including parts or an alignment.
>
> See the shock replacement instructions in the miata.net Garage section.
>
> Choose an alignment shop carefully. Make sure they will align precisely
> to custom specs, not just get the needle into the green. Ask other Miata
> owners for referrals.
>
> I've developed some performance alignment specs that seem to work well
> for many NA/NB owners, without causing tire wear
> problems:http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
>
> When you're finished, you won't believe it's the same car!

Woohoo! Thanks, Lanny. Reckon I might go with Konis after all, and
an alignment, when I find a good shop.

As far as the other suspension upgrades, I do have one question. I've
had a lot of fun at the three autocrosses I've done, and can see
myself continuing with it. Now, at a certain point I will cease being
a "novice" and will have to run in one of the other classes. From
what I understand, the "stock" classes allow you to change the front
swaybar, but not the rear (which seems like a weird place to draw the
line). If you change the rear, you are obliged to run in one of the
classes that allow extensive mods, and then the dilemma comes up
whether you want to invest that much effort and expense to make your
car "competitive," or simply ignore where your car happens to stack up
and just race for the fun and personal challenge of it.

Do you think changing just the front swaybar at some point (so as to
stay within the rules for stock class, as well as the corresponding
street tire class) would be worth doing on an NB? Or would you say
just do 'em both or don't do 'em.

Eric

In article
>,
wrote:

> Do you think changing just the front swaybar at some point (so as to
> stay within the rules for stock class, as well as the corresponding
> street tire class) would be worth doing on an NB?

Yes, definitely. The car will understeer resolutely on the street, but
work well for autocross. You could always swap in a larger rear bar for
good street balance and remove it for autocross. Rear bars are easy to
change, you don't even need to jack up the car.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Lanny, unless my 99 is 'a-typical' and I do not believe it to be, a large
front bar will not cause large doses of understeer on the street. I know
that it seems like it should but I think the car starts out so heavily
leaned toward oversteer that the big front bar makes it pretty neutral. With
the stock rear bar I rarely see understeer rear it's ugly head (and I like
it that way). I do have the FM butterfly brace so, I guess there's a good
chance that skews my current set up to some degree but if my memory serves
me right I still believe the above comment to be true to my experience (pre
butterfly ;-)

Chris
99BBB

"Lanny Chambers" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> wrote:
>
>> Do you think changing just the front swaybar at some point (so as to
>> stay within the rules for stock class, as well as the corresponding
>> street tire class) would be worth doing on an NB?
>
> Yes, definitely. The car will understeer resolutely on the street, but
> work well for autocross. You could always swap in a larger rear bar for
> good street balance and remove it for autocross. Rear bars are easy to
> change, you don't even need to jack up the car.
>
> --
> Lanny Chambers
> St. Louis, MO
> '94C

The brand of sway bar seems like it may be a significant factor here.

From what I can tell, the RB front sway bar is a monster, several
times stiffer than stock, and requires extra hardware to protect the
mount points on the chassis.

The FM bar looks to be smaller and less stiff than the RB, while still
a significant upgrade over stock.

I am starting to lean toward the Flyin' Miata (whenever I end up doing
this) because

- installation is less complicated than with the Racing Beat bar
(whether for me or a mechanic I find)
- if I use just the front FM bar and stock rear (due to autocross
class restrictions), the handling seems more likely to strike a decent
balance (in other kinds of driving as well) than if I used just the
monster RB bar with the stock rear.

Does this make sense?

Eric

On May 18, 4:16*pm, "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:
> Lanny, unless my 99 is 'a-typical' and I do not believe it to be, a large
> front bar will not cause large doses of understeer on the street. I know
> that it seems like it should but I think the car starts out so heavily
> leaned toward oversteer that the big front bar makes it pretty neutral. With
> the stock rear bar I rarely see understeer rear it's ugly head (and I like
> it that way). I do have the FM butterfly brace so, I guess there's a good
> chance that skews my current set up to some degree but if my memory serves
> me right I still believe the above comment to be true to my experience (pre
> butterfly ;-)
>
> Chris
> 99BBB
>
> "Lanny Chambers" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > wrote:
>
> >> Do you think changing just the front swaybar at some point (so as to
> >> stay within the rules for stock class, as well as the corresponding
> >> street tire class) would be worth doing on an NB?
>
> > Yes, definitely. The car will understeer resolutely on the street, but
> > work well for autocross. You could always swap in a larger rear bar for
> > good street balance and remove it for autocross. Rear bars are easy to
> > change, you don't even need to jack up the car.
>
> > --
> > Lanny Chambers
> > St. Louis, MO
> > '94C

In article >,
"Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:

> Lanny, unless my 99 is 'a-typical' and I do not believe it to be, a large
> front bar will not cause large doses of understeer on the street. I know
> that it seems like it should but I think the car starts out so heavily
> leaned toward oversteer that the big front bar makes it pretty neutral.

Depends on the alignment. Also, possibly on your definition of
oversteer. A neutral Miata should spin if the throttle is dropped
suddenly in a hard corner. Most people don't like that, so they call it
"oversteer" and crank some understeer into the car to feel more
comfortable. Whatever.

A Miata that won't stay rotated under full throttle in fourth gear is
understeering to the point its handling is compromised. No doubt that
it's easier to drive, though.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C