Gray market E36 diesel -- good buy or orphan nightmare?

I've come across a gray market E36 diesel wagon, '93 model, imported in the late
90s and currently registered in NY. Supposedly all the legal documentation is
present, title clear, etc. It looks like a good buy -- but would I be buying a
nightmare? This model was never imported to the US, nor to my knowledge was the
engine -- unless it has the same older diesel used in the 524td (not one of
BMW's better efforts, IMO). Is this the case? Any opinions?

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message >...
> I've come across a gray market E36 diesel wagon, '93 model, imported in the late
> 90s and currently registered in NY.

No such thing as a "1993" E36 touring. They were launched in 1995.
In 1993, you could still buy an E30 touring brand new from European
dealers, but IIRC production stopped at the end of 1992 and the 1993
cars are (or were) stockpiled.

> Supposedly all the legal documentation is
> present, title clear, etc. It looks like a good buy -- but would I be buying a
> nightmare? This model was never imported to the US, nor to my knowledge was the
> engine -- unless it has the same older diesel used in the 524td (not one of
> BMW's better efforts, IMO). Is this the case? Any opinions?

If the year is wrong, and the car is a '95, then it has the uprated
M51 engine, which is one of BMW's better efforts. But I suspect US
diesel may quickly sound the death knell for the cylinder bores, and
the turbos don't have a particularly long life. (One reason why BMW
still does not import its modern diesels to the US, despite their
obvious benefits.) If the year is correct, and the car really was
registered in 1993, then it's the same engine as the E28/E34 524td.
So, good in its day, but like most things mechanical, no longer
competitive.

Andrew Thomas wrote:

> "Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
> >...

>> I've come across a gray market E36 diesel wagon, '93 model, imported
>> in the late 90s and currently registered in NY.
>
> No such thing as a "1993" E36 touring. They were launched in 1995.
> In 1993, you could still buy an E30 touring brand new from European
> dealers, but IIRC production stopped at the end of 1992 and the 1993
> cars are (or were) stockpiled.

Actually, I was mistaken (as was the advertiser). It's a '93 525, IMO an even
nicer car. It probably has the same "small six" turbodiesel as the previous 5
Series.

>> Supposedly all the legal documentation is
>> present, title clear, etc. It looks like a good buy -- but would I
>> be buying a nightmare? This model was never imported to the US, nor
>> to my knowledge was the engine -- unless it has the same older
>> diesel used in the 524td (not one of BMW's better efforts, IMO). Is
>> this the case? Any opinions?
>
> If the year is wrong, and the car is a '95, then it has the uprated
> M51 engine, which is one of BMW's better efforts. But I suspect US
> diesel may quickly sound the death knell for the cylinder bores, and
> the turbos don't have a particularly long life. (One reason why BMW
> still does not import its modern diesels to the US, despite their
> obvious benefits.)

That would definately be a concern, running such an engine on US fuel. I wasn't
aware the mid-90s engines required low-sulphur fuel. It would probably be OK
for local use in CA, which already has low-sulphur fuel, or if there's a good
local biodiesel supply (which there is around here). But for me, the attraction
of a diesel is low fuel cost for long trips (I hardly drive locally).

Regarding the future of diesel in the US, we already have "clean enough" diesel
in CA, with the rest of the country to follow in 2006. Now, whether BMW chooses
to sell us diesels at that time is another story. I hope they take a clue from
how "hot" VW TDIs are right now on the used market. In terms of resale value,
the best new car buy you could have made 3-5 years ago was a Jetta TDI.

> If the year is correct, and the car really was
> registered in 1993, then it's the same engine as the E28/E34 524td.
> So, good in its day, but like most things mechanical, no longer
> competitive.

Not too appealing. I don't believe this was a particularly good engine, even in
its day. It's rare to find one with more than 200k over here, even though the
gasoline versions regularly lasted twice that long. These diesels had problems
with head bolts and head gaskets, too-infrequent valve adjustments and burned
valves, and blown turbos, plus they had timing belts like the rest of the small
sixes. They were used in Lincolns, Vixen motorhomes, and there were marine
conversions too, none of them very successful.

OTOH, VW/Audi and Mercedes could almost always be driven until the rest of the
car fell apart.

Anyway, thanks for the info!

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message >...

> > No such thing as a "1993" E36 touring. They were launched in 1995.
> > In 1993, you could still buy an E30 touring brand new from European
> > dealers, but IIRC production stopped at the end of 1992 and the 1993
> > cars are (or were) stockpiled.
>
> Actually, I was mistaken (as was the advertiser). It's a '93 525, IMO an even
> nicer car. It probably has the same "small six" turbodiesel as the previous 5
> Series.

In that case it has the later M51 engine, with 143 bhp and ~220 lb-ft.
This is considerably better than the older M21 which briefly appeared
in the E34 as the 524td sedan (but never as a touring; the touring
bodyshell and newer diesel engine were launched at roughly the same
time). In its day (1992) it was the best mid-sized diesel by a
considerable margin. Again, now not so competitive, and the fuel
suitability issues remain. IMHO not worth it, since you'll never be
able to get it serviced and if/when the turbo goes pop, replacement
will cost you a small fortune in USD.

"Andrew Thomas" > wrote in message
m...
> "Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > > No such thing as a "1993" E36 touring. They were launched in 1995.
> > > In 1993, you could still buy an E30 touring brand new from European
> > > dealers, but IIRC production stopped at the end of 1992 and the 1993
> > > cars are (or were) stockpiled.
> >
> > Actually, I was mistaken (as was the advertiser). It's a '93 525, IMO
an even
> > nicer car. It probably has the same "small six" turbodiesel as the
previous 5
> > Series.
>
> In that case it has the later M51 engine, with 143 bhp and ~220 lb-ft.
> This is considerably better than the older M21 which briefly appeared
> in the E34 as the 524td sedan (but never as a touring; the touring
> bodyshell and newer diesel engine were launched at roughly the same
> time). In its day (1992) it was the best mid-sized diesel by a
> considerable margin. Again, now not so competitive, and the fuel
> suitability issues remain. IMHO not worth it, since you'll never be
> able to get it serviced and if/when the turbo goes pop, replacement
> will cost you a small fortune in USD.

No longer fully relevant but to the E34 524td -- the story isn't quite as
bad as you think because there was a Lincoln that used the same motor. So,
you can get parts (like the turbo) at the Ford dealership or a domestic
wrecker. Still not cheap or common, but not as bad as you might first think
when looking at the 524td distribution in the US.

A lot of E30 guys take the crank and sometimes the turbo from these old
Lincolns when they are building up their M20's. Although the turbo manifold
is not a bolt on to the M20B25, so it ends up being debatable if it's worth
the effort to adapt it rather than buy a pupose-built manifold or fabricate
one.

-Russ.

Somebody wrote:

> No longer fully relevant but to the E34 524td -- the story isn't
> quite as bad as you think because there was a Lincoln that used the
> same motor. So, you can get parts (like the turbo) at the Ford
> dealership or a domestic wrecker. Still not cheap or common, but not
> as bad as you might first think when looking at the 524td
> distribution in the US.

My concern is not getting the parts, it's having an engine that needs fixing --
which there's no reason to have, with so many dead-reliable ones to choose from.

Matt O.