carb choice

I have a 1641 engine mild cam, large valve openings balenced crank.
what is a good carb to use? Webers are priceeee! Are Empi 40 good to
use.

badnews wrote:
> I have a 1641 engine mild cam, large valve openings balenced crank.
> what is a good carb to use? Webers are priceeee! Are Empi 40 good to
> use.
>

Do a thad of Google, and you will find the answer is no!
Neither are the American made Webers according to those in the know.
If you pop over to www.shoptalkforums.com and look under the Type4rum(I
think..) you will find a thread about them approx a week or two ago. Use
the search facility.
The carbs CAN be made to work, if you have a full day, a rolling dyno,
all the hardware needed and the experience. Take your pick, that or
genuine Dell/Weber carbs.


J.

badnews kirjoitti:
> I have a 1641 engine mild cam, large valve openings balenced crank.
> what is a good carb to use? Webers are priceeee! Are Empi 40 good to
> use.
>


If you are on a budget, get a used set of 40mm Kadrons, the "Kadron
Kit". They can be found for near 100 dollars, complete with intake
manifolds, linkage, aircleaners etc..

Forget all centermounted carbs unless you have a good quality HEATED
intake manifold. Even then they are a compromise at best.

Jan

On Feb 20, 6:05 pm, Jan > wrote:
> badnews kirjoitti:
>
> > I have a 1641 engine mild cam, large valve openings balenced crank.
> > what is a good carb to use? Webers are priceeee! Are Empi 40 good to
> > use.
>
> If you are on a budget, get a used set of 40mm Kadrons, the "Kadron
> Kit". They can be found for near 100 dollars, complete with intake
> manifolds, linkage, aircleaners etc..
>
> Forget all centermounted carbs unless you have a good quality HEATED
> intake manifold. Even then they are a compromise at best.
>
> Jan

Hi Jan,

don't mean to hijack the topic, but I keep hearing this same statement
about centermounted carbs. What's the deal with that? I am planing
on putting on a center mounted IDF 44 with preheat pipes manifold, and
after hearing this not for the first time makes me wonder. All I can
gather is that it's hard to jet tune and it will ice up even with
preheat. Icing I am not too worried about, since I won't be driving in
subzero temps, maybe some brisk mornings, but nowhere near zero
temps. Should I just scrap the idea and go back to hunting down
another 44? This is going on 1600cc engine btw, which might be a tad
big, but eventually will get reused on 2056 T4.

Thanks,
Anton

anton kirjoitti:
> On Feb 20, 6:05 pm, Jan > wrote:
>> badnews kirjoitti:
>>
>>> I have a 1641 engine mild cam, large valve openings balenced crank.
>>> what is a good carb to use? Webers are priceeee! Are Empi 40 good to
>>> use.
>> If you are on a budget, get a used set of 40mm Kadrons, the "Kadron
>> Kit". They can be found for near 100 dollars, complete with intake
>> manifolds, linkage, aircleaners etc..
>>
>> Forget all centermounted carbs unless you have a good quality HEATED
>> intake manifold. Even then they are a compromise at best.
>>
>> Jan
>
> Hi Jan,
>
> don't mean to hijack the topic, but I keep hearing this same statement
> about centermounted carbs. What's the deal with that? I am planing
> on putting on a center mounted IDF 44 with preheat pipes manifold, and
> after hearing this not for the first time makes me wonder. All I can
> gather is that it's hard to jet tune and it will ice up even with
> preheat. Icing I am not too worried about, since I won't be driving in
> subzero temps, maybe some brisk mornings, but nowhere near zero
> temps. Should I just scrap the idea and go back to hunting down
> another 44? This is going on 1600cc engine btw, which might be a tad
> big, but eventually will get reused on 2056 T4.
>
> Thanks,
> Anton
>


carb and manifold icing do not require ambient temperatures below
freezing. It can happen even in the summer, if weather conditions and
engine configuration happen to promote it. Humid air and high mixture
velocity is all you need to make ice.

Even more than icing you will have trouble with poor mixture, with the
loooooong intake tubes. Fuel just falls out of air suspension and forms
droplets on the walls of the intake manifold, entering the combustion
chamber in droplets rather than atomized.

Liquid gasoline does not burn.

You overcompensate by jetting the damn thing rich, so that at least SOME
of the fuel stays atomized/misted, to get a good burn at SOME rpms. At
all other rpms the engine will run rich.

In addition, you will be pumping raw fuel through the engine, and it
will wash off the oil film from the cylinder walls, causing accelerated
wear.

If you have plans to build a larger engine later, (soon), you can use
the single 44 for now. You need to spend a lot of time jetting and
choking it down to make it work. Put in the smallest venturies you can
find for them. Get the heated manifold.


On the 2056 T4 however, you would be happier with a pair of 40's rather
than 44's, plus they would be cheaper too. That's what I went with on my
2 liter T4. I had a street cam and a header exhaust on it and minor
headwork on the larger valved 1.8 heads.

jan

anton wrote:

> don't mean to hijack the topic, but I keep hearing this same statement
> about centermounted carbs. What's the deal with that?

The large pipes to the heads make for low manifold vacuum, poor running
at anything less than WFO.

To piggy back on Jans response..

I had a stock solex 34 on my 72... pre-heat tubes were connected (dont know
how clogged they were ) and I saw my carb icing in florida! But I cleared
the intake assembly especially the pre-heat tubes and it didnt ice any more,
however the carb still felt cold while the engine was running and it sweat
real bad. So I could imagine what a center mount would do with out heat
tubes. Duals are a pain, sometimes, when it comes to keeping them sync'ed
or just jetting them properly. So pick your poison, and remember there are
always pro's and con's to every modification you make to your engine,
wheather it be cost, fuel milage, longevity, ease of maintenance - etc...

vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
dragenwagen
1966 Type I
http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
"Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw

"dragenwagen" > wrote in message
...
> To piggy back on Jans response..
>
> I had a stock solex 34 on my 72... pre-heat tubes were connected (dont
> know how clogged they were ) and I saw my carb icing in florida! But I
> cleared the intake assembly especially the pre-heat tubes and it didnt ice
> any more, however the carb still felt cold while the engine was running
> and it sweat real bad. So I could imagine what a center mount would do
> with out heat tubes. Duals are a pain, sometimes, when it comes to
> keeping them sync'ed or just jetting them properly. So pick your poison,
> and remember there are always pro's and con's to every modification you
> make to your engine, wheather it be cost, fuel milage, longevity, ease of
> maintenance - etc...
>
> vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
> dragenwagen
> 1966 Type I
> http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
> "Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
> vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
>

google "Megasquirt"

On Feb 21, 9:15 pm, "Joey Tribiani" > wrote:
> "dragenwagen" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > To piggy back on Jans response..
>
> > I had a stock solex 34 on my 72... pre-heat tubes were connected (dont
> > know how clogged they were ) and I saw my carb icing in florida! But I
> > cleared the intake assembly especially the pre-heat tubes and it didnt ice
> > any more, however the carb still felt cold while the engine was running
> > and it sweat real bad. So I could imagine what a center mount would do
> > with out heat tubes. Duals are a pain, sometimes, when it comes to
> > keeping them sync'ed or just jetting them properly. So pick your poison,
> > and remember there are always pro's and con's to every modification you
> > make to your engine, wheather it be cost, fuel milage, longevity, ease of
> > maintenance - etc...
>
> > vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
> > dragenwagen
> > 1966 Type I
> >http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
> > "Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
> > vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
>
> google "Megasquirt"

hm, I remember replying earlier today to this topic, but somehow it
was lost. I didn't realize that carb ice would be so bad with center
mount since manifold length is almost the same as the stock dp, but I
guess it would be worse since I thought that if a pair of 40s is
good for up to 2000cc single 44 would be somewhere between stock carb
and dual 40s. btw the manifold that i have for the 44 is cast alum
kind not the tall ones. kind of like this cb http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=533
just a little taller.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/3...67c0f56e8f.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/3...cb69c8be37.jpg


Joey, megasquirt, are you talking about the EFI running on gumstix?

Thanks again,
Anton

JJ wrote:
> anton wrote:
> > don't mean to hijack the topic, but I keep hearing this same
> > statement about centermounted carbs. What's the deal with that?
> The large pipes to the heads make for low manifold vacuum, poor
> running at anything less than WFO.

Not sure-all-why it is, but yep, BTDT. :/

A guy can make it work "good enough" with enough fiddling around and
at the same time learning to live with its odd cranky response, and
the mileage etc is still bad.

Too bad it don't work so good huh?

One of the best carb rigs I ever had was a pair of "freds" on a '73
Squareback. No chokes and sure as heck didn't need 'em neither.

Started, ran and idled great.

Man, it's been so long since I messed with any of this stuff I don't
even know if they still sell those carbs and the kit to make them
work. :/

Alvin in AZ