GN1970 physics...

LOL!! "Community"!
What "community"?
A constantly-changing collection of comments from individuals spread far and
wide, each with our own egos to stroke and wisdom to impart. The internet
equivalent of a lot of disparate people yelling across a crowded hotel bar.

When will you accept the fact that the games we play....yes, GAMES,.....are
nothing more than, well, games?
ENTERTAINMENT. AMUSEMENT. PLAYTIME.
Nothing more, nothing less.
No deep, meaningful, mystical or religious aspects at all in these
creations, Francois.
They are created, in the main, by people who see a market for such things
and who wish to earn an income from that market.
These GAMES are the computer-equivalent of novels, movies, board-games,
music and any other product that is designed to entertain and amuse.

Get it yet?

I don't think that the thread itself is necessarily over my head, Francois,
but your line of thinking certainly is!
(And always has been, come to think of it).

BK

"ymenard" > wrote in message
...

> And I go beyond that and think about the community as a motor to this
> entertainment business. This whole thread went way over your head.

NROS?
NROS?
Francois....didn't you just state in a post in this thread that you don't
live in the past?

Dear me....you ARE a confused lad, aren't you....or has Alzheimer's kicked
in already?

BK

"ymenard" > wrote in message
.. .

> You have no clue what I have free time I have done to the community back
in the NROS era, so stuff it.
>
> I've done my FAIR share of things during the NROS era, trust me. I spend
complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell me what to
do.

>"Bruce Kennewell" > wrote
> Francois....didn't you just state in a post in this thread that you don't
> live in the past?


Irrelevant, completely. He had the guts to judge my right to say a word
about the community because supposidely for him, I'm "just a simracer".









--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Bruce Kennewell" > wrote
> LOL!! "Community"!
> What "community"?


You just don't get it Bruce. That's the attitude of yours that never
changed, you stay there in your corner and just wait for anything to appear.
Passively. "Oh well gee it's just a game"


> When will you accept the fact that the games we play....yes,
> GAMES,.....are
> nothing more than, well, games?

Collectively, no. You fail to understand anything about modern capitalism
and the need for mass entertainment philosophically. It's just not "games".
It's the way we live outside the role we have in society.


> ENTERTAINMENT. AMUSEMENT. PLAYTIME.
> Nothing more, nothing less.
> No deep, meaningful, mystical or religious aspects at all in these
> creations, Francois.

Sorry your philosophy is so naive it's beyond ridicule. Your nihilism is
not needed here in this thread. I've rarely seen somebody be as further
away from pro-activeness as you when you post here Bruce.


> They are created, in the main, by people who see a market for such things
> and who wish to earn an income from that market.


EXACTLY! That's why the need for a strong collectivity, or else we end up
like now, or like the flight sim community has, and we're basically ****ed
because nobody had any kind of vision and the developpers flew away while
there was truly a market for certain things.

But hey it's just a game for you, so shut it, Jan said people like you
aren't entitled to their opinion because well, "they just simrace" those
games you know.



--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Jan Kohl" > wrote
>> Just that "If you're just simracing you have no right to an opinion"
>> sickens me.
>
> LOL...again, you're twisting things to make your point.

It's the exact thing you have stated multiple times in a couple of post.
Basically it's "hey what have YOU done? You have no right to your opinion
if you can't be up to my standards of what I give to the community". What
are you like elected or something?


> You replied on a thread about our mod with comments about how we do
> things.

I replied on a thread abour your mod with comments about how I think the
community should be doing.


> since you don't know what you're talking about.

Again that elitist attitude of "thou are not worthy to your opinion as thou
are just a simracer". Gee I guess it must be the same for the simple
simracer who just wants to be able to have some kind of new PC releases from
time to time as it's more and more unlikely these days?



> 12,000 downloads in one week of a mod for a "useless" and "dead" sim are
> nothing
> to sneeze at.

That's nothing to excite developpers to do simracing titles. 'Cause hey
from all that I see... E3 had almost nothing about PC simracing, Current
release in 2006 can be counted on a single hand and I'm being optimistic
here.




>> Multiplayer PC racing is dead.
>
> Disagree again, although this is based on my 'insight'. 5 years ago you
> had
> a bunch of releases but only a few were really anything good. Now you
> have a
> few releases, but typically they are much higher quality than they used to
> be.

It's only natural development to have modern PC simracing titles of higher
quality than before in history. Before you had a dozen good releases a
year, in all genres. Now you have 3-4 and it's basically up to the
community to do the rest of the work, tweak it, patch it, update it, etc...

That's why Bruce, btw, that understanding the community is important. It's
not just games, if its just games, buy yourself a console, mods are not
needed in their business models. But for PC simracing to survive, there
must be a strong sense of foresight between us. So do you get it now Bruce?


> And as soon as they are released they are modded, further splintering the
> racing.
> Racers from Europe and Australia typically race in leagues on their home
> turf. A
> few years ago, that wasn't possible, as most of the racing servers were
> US-based.


Yet multiplayer arenas are emptier as 5 years ago, leagues have shrinked
down in numbers, sales have incredibly dropped to a ridiculously low
numbers, developpers are flewing away from the simracing PC market.



>> Again the "Thou are not worthly because you only race" attitude. Shut it
>> already.
>
> Awwwww...did my comment to put your money where your mouth is strike a
> sore cord?

Nope I was struck by your elitist comment and how shocking you consider
people who just simrace as non-exisitant for their opinions.


> There are 3 types of people in this world concerning this type of
> behavior; the bitchers, the lurkers, and the doers. You
> can quickly decide which group you want to be counted in...


I'm all 3.




>> I've done my FAIR share of things during the NROS era, trust me. I spend
>> complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell me what
>> to do.
>
> Waaaah. So did I. Yet we're still here doing things. So where does that
> leave you?

^^^ Elitist alert above ^^^




--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

LOL!!
How on God's earth someone could get so intense over a subject such as
computer GAMING I have no idea.
I guess my shares in EB Games are pretty safe with cretins such as yourself
looking after them!

BK


> But hey it's just a game for you, so shut it, Jan said people like you
> aren't entitled to their opinion because well, "they just simrace" those
> games you know.

Oh, of COURSE its irrelevant when YOU want it to be so, Frankie!!
I shouldn't expect anything else from a fruit-loop, should I?

BK

"ymenard" > wrote in message
news
>
> Irrelevant, completely. He had the guts to judge my right to say a word
> about the community because supposidely for him, I'm "just a simracer".
>

The biggest reason you've seen crap come out and the lack of simracers is
because companies like EA have bought the rights to damn near every racing
genre and continue to put out crap but have the gall to call it "the most
realistic racing".

"ymenard" > wrote in message
.. .
> >"Jan Kohl" > wrote
>>> Just that "If you're just simracing you have no right to an opinion"
>>> sickens me.
>>
>> LOL...again, you're twisting things to make your point.
>
> It's the exact thing you have stated multiple times in a couple of post.
> Basically it's "hey what have YOU done? You have no right to your opinion
> if you can't be up to my standards of what I give to the community". What
> are you like elected or something?
>
>
>> You replied on a thread about our mod with comments about how we do
>> things.
>
> I replied on a thread abour your mod with comments about how I think the
> community should be doing.
>
>
>> since you don't know what you're talking about.
>
> Again that elitist attitude of "thou are not worthy to your opinion as
> thou are just a simracer". Gee I guess it must be the same for the simple
> simracer who just wants to be able to have some kind of new PC releases
> from time to time as it's more and more unlikely these days?
>
>
>
>> 12,000 downloads in one week of a mod for a "useless" and "dead" sim are
>> nothing
>> to sneeze at.
>
> That's nothing to excite developpers to do simracing titles. 'Cause hey
> from all that I see... E3 had almost nothing about PC simracing, Current
> release in 2006 can be counted on a single hand and I'm being optimistic
> here.
>
>
>
>
>>> Multiplayer PC racing is dead.
>>
>> Disagree again, although this is based on my 'insight'. 5 years ago you
>> had
>> a bunch of releases but only a few were really anything good. Now you
>> have a
>> few releases, but typically they are much higher quality than they used
>> to be.
>
> It's only natural development to have modern PC simracing titles of higher
> quality than before in history. Before you had a dozen good releases a
> year, in all genres. Now you have 3-4 and it's basically up to the
> community to do the rest of the work, tweak it, patch it, update it,
> etc...
>
> That's why Bruce, btw, that understanding the community is important.
> It's not just games, if its just games, buy yourself a console, mods are
> not needed in their business models. But for PC simracing to survive,
> there must be a strong sense of foresight between us. So do you get it
> now Bruce?
>
>
>> And as soon as they are released they are modded, further splintering the
>> racing.
>> Racers from Europe and Australia typically race in leagues on their home
>> turf. A
>> few years ago, that wasn't possible, as most of the racing servers were
>> US-based.
>
>
> Yet multiplayer arenas are emptier as 5 years ago, leagues have shrinked
> down in numbers, sales have incredibly dropped to a ridiculously low
> numbers, developpers are flewing away from the simracing PC market.
>
>
>
>>> Again the "Thou are not worthly because you only race" attitude. Shut
>>> it already.
>>
>> Awwwww...did my comment to put your money where your mouth is strike a
>> sore cord?
>
> Nope I was struck by your elitist comment and how shocking you consider
> people who just simrace as non-exisitant for their opinions.
>
>
>> There are 3 types of people in this world concerning this type of
>> behavior; the bitchers, the lurkers, and the doers. You
>> can quickly decide which group you want to be counted in...
>
>
> I'm all 3.
>
>
>
>
>>> I've done my FAIR share of things during the NROS era, trust me. I
>>> spend complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell me
>>> what to do.
>>
>> Waaaah. So did I. Yet we're still here doing things. So where does that
>> leave you?
>
> ^^^ Elitist alert above ^^^
>
>
>
>
> --
> -- François Ménard <ymenard>
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
>
>
>

"Bruce Kennewell" wrote...
> Sorry, but it isn't within me to consider a game to have a
> "desperate need" to have something created for it.

Missing the point entirely. Everything (sports, cars, white goods,
computers, ... and games) has to move forward. This is the nature of human
endeavour. There is no point in creating something which is, in essence,
exactly the same and has exactly the same flaws as something which has gone
before.

> So if there are those out there who enjoy making add-ons for
> outdated (read "more than three years old") sims then good on
> 'em.
> They probably consider the game to be exactly that....a game.

If they're just looking for a vehicle to realise their vision with, why
choose one that limits their options?

> There are, after all, many who just buy this stuff to while away the
> occasional hour, you know. We don't live and breath it nor consider
> it to be an essential part of life.

If you have so little passion for the genre, why don't you go play
Minesweeper? -it whiles away the hours just as competently.

> It's not a matter of living in the past, but simply a matter of continuing
> to receive enjoyment from what was an enjoyable product in the first
> place.

It simply is living in the past. Doubly so from a single player perspective.

Jan.
=---.

"Missing the point"? About GAMES?
I think, Jan, that you may be missing MY point.

Many games, sports, entertainments and amusements, are essentially the same
now as they were 100 years ago.
Traditional board and parlour games, for example, have changed little, with
the only concession to technology being changes to the materials from which
the components are made. Paper, cardboard, wood, bone and ivory, for
example, have given way to plastics.

Sports such as golf, tennis, football (all codes) hocky, lacrosse, polo,
swimming, athletics, ad infinitum, may have adopted new materials also, and
have had minor rule changes, but are still played in the same manner as they
were when originally devised.
Even motor-racing still consists of two or more motorised vehicles competing
against each other, just as they did in 1909.

The games and sports themselves are, to quote you, "in essence, exactly the
same which has gone before".

In addition, I don't necessarily agree that we have to "move forward".
Change doesn't automatically become synonymous with forward progress.

Play Minesweeper?
Because it doesn't give me the relaxation, enjoyment and entertainment that
I like.
You might as well ask, Why don't we all read the telephone book? We don't
really need novels or biographies or humour or technical publications or
periodicals or newspapers. We could while-away the hours with the 'phone
book.
We could equally sit around with a tuning fork that, when struck, emits the
sound of Middle C. After all, that would still be music, wouldn't it?

I enjoy music that was written by people who died 200 years ago, yet I
listen to it on today's audio equipment.
I enjoy movies that were made twenty, thirty, fifty years ago, yet I watch
them now courtesy DVD and/or cable television.
I enjoy looking at paintings that were painted three-to-four hundred years
ago, yet I view them under climate-controlled conditions provided by
twenty-first century technology.
I enjoy working on aircraft that flew on missions over fifty years ago yet I
use tools and technology that the aircraft fitters and aircrew would not
have even dreamed of.
I enjoy some computer games that were published three to eight years ago,
yet I play them on computer equipment that is current technology.

Am I "living in the past" because of these things?
If your answer is "Yes", then that's fine by me, because at least I CAN find
an enormous amount to enjoy about the past and if, when it comes to computer
games, the past is considered by some to be as recent as yesterday or last
year, then I can also live with the criticism very easily because, you see,
when it comes to entertaining ME, the only person I have to consider is
myself.

BK

"Jan Verschueren" > wrote in message
...
>
> Missing the point entirely. ...etc