85 Jetta stopped dead

Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
normally, and it just died.
After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it warm
up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
normally.
I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units. The
fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" - the
car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
bump of the starter.
The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I was
getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first pushed
the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38 degrees.
The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one stop,
and then about two miles to the failure point.
It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal upon
startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight), probably
due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
squealing when it quit running.
A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have a
new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the plastic
pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to cause
the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
Pat Moore

My '83 GTI had the same symptoms ... stuttered around corners, would die without warning, then would start and run after a while. It
had an intermittent break in the wiring from the Hall sensor in the distributor. Might want to replace the Hall sensor and see if
that helps.

"Pat Moore" > wrote in message ...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units. The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" - the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
> The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I was
> getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first pushed
> the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
> rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
> Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38 degrees.
> The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
> months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one stop,
> and then about two miles to the failure point.
> It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal upon
> startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight), probably
> due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
> vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
> suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
> worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
> usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
> squealing when it quit running.
> A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
> cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
> fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have a
> new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the plastic
> pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to cause
> the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
> Pat Moore
>
>
>

My '83 GTI had the same symptoms ... stuttered around corners, would die without warning, then would start and run after a while. It
had an intermittent break in the wiring from the Hall sensor in the distributor. Might want to replace the Hall sensor and see if
that helps.

"Pat Moore" > wrote in message ...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units. The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" - the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
> The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I was
> getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first pushed
> the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
> rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
> Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38 degrees.
> The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
> months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one stop,
> and then about two miles to the failure point.
> It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal upon
> startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight), probably
> due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
> vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
> suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
> worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
> usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
> squealing when it quit running.
> A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
> cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
> fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have a
> new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the plastic
> pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to cause
> the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
> Pat Moore
>
>
>

You mentioned fuel pumps. How about fuel filter and possibly dry gas or the
like.

JoBo

"Pat Moore" > wrote in message
...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it
> warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units.
> The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" -
> the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
> The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I
> was
> getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first
> pushed
> the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
> rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
> Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38
> degrees.
> The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
> months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one
> stop,
> and then about two miles to the failure point.
> It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal
> upon
> startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight),
> probably
> due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
> vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
> suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
> worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
> usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
> squealing when it quit running.
> A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
> cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
> fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have
> a
> new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the
> plastic
> pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to
> cause
> the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
> Pat Moore
>
>
>

You mentioned fuel pumps. How about fuel filter and possibly dry gas or the
like.

JoBo

"Pat Moore" > wrote in message
...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it
> warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units.
> The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" -
> the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
> The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I
> was
> getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first
> pushed
> the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
> rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
> Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38
> degrees.
> The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
> months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one
> stop,
> and then about two miles to the failure point.
> It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal
> upon
> startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight),
> probably
> due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
> vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
> suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
> worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
> usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
> squealing when it quit running.
> A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
> cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
> fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have
> a
> new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the
> plastic
> pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to
> cause
> the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
> Pat Moore
>
>
>

Here are a couple ideas -- all of which I've confronted.

All Electrical:
(1) check the Hall sensor connection, the rubber boot separates from the
wires and water follows the wires into the Hall connectors. Clean it out
with contact cleaner, clean up the connectors and re-seal the wires-to-boot
gap with black GE RTV Silicon sealant.
(2) check the connectors on the main fuel pump (under the right rear
passenger seat) I've had the small spring connectors crud-up and from
subsequent sparking and heating open-up causing an intermittent contact. I
ended chopping off the connector and crimping on quality spade lugs then
weather proofing the connection.
(3) and most expensive, suspect the fuel pressure regulator. On my 86 CIS-E
it's the small black box attached with two screws to the side of the
aluminum fuel distributor next to the engine. Failure mode was something
like, sudden death on the road, then restarting in about 5 minutes and
trouble free driving for weeks. Then the bouts would occur more often,
until finally it stuck in "limp-home-mode".

Hope this helps...good luck.

Jim


"Pat Moore" > wrote in message
...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it
warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units.
The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" -
the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
> The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I
was
> getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first
pushed
> the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
> rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
> Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38
degrees.
> The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
> months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one
stop,
> and then about two miles to the failure point.
> It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal
upon
> startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight),
probably
> due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
> vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
> suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
> worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
> usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
> squealing when it quit running.
> A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
> cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
> fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have
a
> new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the
plastic
> pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to
cause
> the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
> Pat Moore
>
>
>

Here are a couple ideas -- all of which I've confronted.

All Electrical:
(1) check the Hall sensor connection, the rubber boot separates from the
wires and water follows the wires into the Hall connectors. Clean it out
with contact cleaner, clean up the connectors and re-seal the wires-to-boot
gap with black GE RTV Silicon sealant.
(2) check the connectors on the main fuel pump (under the right rear
passenger seat) I've had the small spring connectors crud-up and from
subsequent sparking and heating open-up causing an intermittent contact. I
ended chopping off the connector and crimping on quality spade lugs then
weather proofing the connection.
(3) and most expensive, suspect the fuel pressure regulator. On my 86 CIS-E
it's the small black box attached with two screws to the side of the
aluminum fuel distributor next to the engine. Failure mode was something
like, sudden death on the road, then restarting in about 5 minutes and
trouble free driving for weeks. Then the bouts would occur more often,
until finally it stuck in "limp-home-mode".

Hope this helps...good luck.

Jim


"Pat Moore" > wrote in message
...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it
warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units.
The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" -
the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
> The wiring looked ok, with no loose cables or wires that I could see. I
was
> getting set up to check for spark when the car started. When we first
pushed
> the car into the garage, I removed the distributor cap to determine if the
> rotor was turning, and everything was dry and clean inside.
> Weather conditions when the car failed were raining lightly and 38
degrees.
> The car has run normally in these same conditions (and lots wetter) for
> months. Prior to the failure, I had driven about five miles, made one
stop,
> and then about two miles to the failure point.
> It's probably not related, but recently we have had a loud belt squeal
upon
> startup after the car sits idling for a bit (like at a stoplight),
probably
> due to a slipping alternator or air conditioning belt. I understand these
> vehicles have a problem with the belts getting wet. Mine does not have the
> suggested deflector shield installed to keep the belts dry. It's slightly
> worse when the air conditioning compressor is engaged by the defroster. It
> usually clears up by the time you're through the intersection. It was not
> squealing when it quit running.
> A visual inspection showed that the rubber fitting in the top of the valve
> cover is loose and the plastic hose that goes across from that rubber
> fitting to the fuel distributor is cracked, creating a vacuum leak. I have
a
> new rubber plug (PVC valve?) coming, along with replacements for the
plastic
> pipe and the rubber hoses for this subsystem. Could this be enough to
cause
> the engine to suddenly quit running, or am I looking for something else?
> Pat Moore
>
>
>

"Pat Moore" > wrote in message
...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it
warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units.
The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" -
the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
>

I have a '95 Jetta that had similar problems, in fact it died in the middle
of a six-lane intersection on a Friday afternoon at 5:00 o'clock. I was
very popular while I cranked and cranked. Eventually I pushed it out of the
intersection with the help of a sympathetic, passing motorist.

Anyhow, I let the car sit a few minutes, then it started right up. When I
gave the engine gas, it bogged down at around 2000 rpm and died again. I
had it towed to a local VW dealer. After two weeks, they finally boiled the
problem down to two problems:

-Bad Hall Effect sensor (open circuit)
-Broken, clogged catalytic converter

The hall effect problem created a trouble code and was logged by the engine
controller, but the catalytic converter problem required removing the cat
and sticking a light down it.

I would recommend looking closely at your distributor rotor and distributor
cap too.

"Pat Moore" > wrote in message
...
> Our 85 Jetta GL 1.8L Auto Trans with AC just stopped dead at a light this
> afternoon. It has stuttered after going around a corner a couple of times
> recently, but today, I pulled up to a light with everything running
> normally, and it just died.
> After towing it to my neighbor's garage, we pushed it inside and let it
warm
> up for an hour. When I went over to try and troubleshoot it, it started
> normally.
> I replaced both fuel pumps about 1,000 miles ago with new Bosch units.
The
> fuel cutoff relay is bypassed. When the car wouldn't start, there was the
> normal pump buzz which stopped normally once the lines pressurized.
> The Jetta has an automatic transmission, and we've fought the heat-soak
> problem for years, but in this case, the starter had plenty of "crank" -
the
> car just wouldn't start up when cranked. Normally, it starts on the first
> bump of the starter.
>

I have a '95 Jetta that had similar problems, in fact it died in the middle
of a six-lane intersection on a Friday afternoon at 5:00 o'clock. I was
very popular while I cranked and cranked. Eventually I pushed it out of the
intersection with the help of a sympathetic, passing motorist.

Anyhow, I let the car sit a few minutes, then it started right up. When I
gave the engine gas, it bogged down at around 2000 rpm and died again. I
had it towed to a local VW dealer. After two weeks, they finally boiled the
problem down to two problems:

-Bad Hall Effect sensor (open circuit)
-Broken, clogged catalytic converter

The hall effect problem created a trouble code and was logged by the engine
controller, but the catalytic converter problem required removing the cat
and sticking a light down it.

I would recommend looking closely at your distributor rotor and distributor
cap too.

Thanks, folks. I found that the boot around the wires going to the Hall
sender was disintigrated. Temporily sealed it with Scotch 88 electrical
tape and got the car out of my friend's garage, and will seal it up solidly
when I get into my own garage. When I don't have to lie in a puddle of
water, I'll look over the electrical connections on the fuel pump.

Once again, the list comes through!