Canada's new Toyota plant

"Joe" > wrote
: >> Why our government cannot understand that is beyond me.
:
: Dubya's the one who doesn't get it.

Oh no, you did NOT just say that!
This has been going on for AGES... no freaking way can you blame it on just
one administration.



: I think it's more like we can learn the origins of where we came from
: by studying other planets and the universe. This, in turn, can help
: us develop better things in our time, i.e., cures for diseases etc.
:
: > Plus if the government didn't spend it on space programs they would
: > probably spend on something even more useless.
:
: They're already doing that. Look at the money (and lives) being spent
: in Iraq.

Ahhh... I get it now...

*disgusted look*

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote
:
: The waste bother me too. I also think that while the possibility is
: remote we should have a plan for dealing with a rogue comet/asteroid.
: It would take that much money. Besides if we are ever hit it would make
: the suffer you just described look like mankind had a common cold,
: relatively speaking. The real shame is that we, and other nations, have
: to spend so much on defense and military related areas. If we would all
: just play nice with each other think of the greater good we could
: accomplish.

Boy, you got that right.

"Joe" > wrote
:
: You want waste? One word: Iraq. Both lives and money are being
: thrown away.

We heard you the first time.

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>SVTKate wrote:
>>
>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote
>>>
>>>: I don't see it as being wasted, necessarily. Much of what is
>>>: learned developing the ISS will be applicable to sending a
>>>: mission to Mars, which seems the next logical step in space
>>>: exploration with the possible exception of a permanent moon base.
>>>: Developing the technology to reach Mars, and return, will take
>>>: time... a long time IMO. I think it will take another 25-30
>>>: years before it is remotely considered feasible.
>>>
>>>I am still having trouble understanding WHY we need to go to Mars.
>>>
>>>Seems like a huge waste of money to me.
>>>HUGE waste of money.
>>>
>>>Like this last little $300 million foofah... lets shoot a rocket at
>>>an asteroid.
>>>$300 freaking MILLION dollars, good thing this country isn't in
>>>debt, or that might be considered a waste of money.
>>>
>>>I grew up knowing that if you can't pay your bills, you can't buy
>>>new toys either.
>>>Why our government cannot understand that is beyond me.
>
>
> Dubya's the one who doesn't get it.
>
>
>>IMO, there is a real good reason for doing it and it really has
>>nothing to do with reaching Mars or any other planet. Sooner or
>>later, an asteroid is going to be heading toward our planet. If it
>>is big enough it would destroy life as we know it and likely
>>exterminate mankind. Even a smaller impact could kill billions of
>>people. All this space exploration will enable us to better detect
>>and, if necessary, maybe deflect any body that is on a collision
>>course with earth. Granted the odds are slim for a collision but it
>>has happened in the past and it will happen in the future. It is
>>not a matter of if but when. Plus, there are usually some very good
>>spin-off technologies coming from space programs that seem to be
>>very useful in everyday life. Just look at the things we take for
>>granted today that were derived from the 1960's space programs.
>
>
> I think it's more like we can learn the origins of where we came from
> by studying other planets and the universe. This, in turn, can help
> us develop better things in our time, i.e., cures for diseases etc.
>
>
>>Plus if the government didn't spend it on space programs they would
>>probably spend on something even more useless.
>
>
> They're already doing that. Look at the money (and lives) being spent
> in Iraq.

IMO, it will take 20-30 years before we really know if the lives and
money were wasted.

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>SVTKate wrote:
>>
>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote
>>>:
>>>: As a follow up to my reply to Kate, I think we should target a
>>>: large asteroid and see how we can affect its long term trajectory
>>>: through various means. Developing that capability might prove
>>>: useful one day!
>>>
>>>Well, I suppose it might prove useful someday, kind of like the set
>>>of taillights I took off of my car MAY be useful someday, not
>>>likely, but possible.
>>>In the meantime... I still think...
>>>
>>>Ok, here's the rub.
>>>Only as an example, but a real problem.
>>>
>>>Recently in this state they have cut the Tenncare rolls
>>>significantly. Loads of people who are really sick (yes and I am
>>>sure some that are taking advantage) have had their medical
>>>benefits eliminated.
>>>
>>>I see it this way, $300million would do allot to help people.
>>>People who really need it right ehre and now. People who cannot
>>>help themselves.
>>>
>>>Kind of the same way I see big fancy churches with the wide screens
>>>and Dolby sound.
>>>The money spent could be used to do some real good....
>>>
>>>I know it's a soap box, I just have this terribly practical side.
>>
>>The waste bother me too. I also think that while the possibility is
>>remote we should have a plan for dealing with a rogue
>>comet/asteroid. It would take that much money. Besides if we are
>>ever hit it would make the suffer you just described look like
>>mankind had a common cold, relatively speaking. The real shame is
>>that we, and other nations, have to spend so much on defense and
>>military related areas. If we would all just play nice with each
>>other think of the greater good we could accomplish.
>
>
> You want waste? One word: Iraq. Both lives and money are being
> thrown away.

To repeat myself, we really won't know for decades if it was a waste or
a brilliant move on Bush's part. History will be the judge.

"SVTKate" > wrote in
k.net:

>
> "Joe" > wrote
>: >> Why our government cannot understand that is beyond me.
>:
>: Dubya's the one who doesn't get it.
>
> Oh no, you did NOT just say that!
> This has been going on for AGES... no freaking way can you blame it
> on just one administration.

IIRC, Dubya inherited a surplus. Look what he did with it. Yes, one
administration.

>: I think it's more like we can learn the origins of where we came
>: from by studying other planets and the universe. This, in turn,
>: can help us develop better things in our time, i.e., cures for
>: diseases etc.
>:
>: > Plus if the government didn't spend it on space programs they
>: > would probably spend on something even more useless.
>:
>: They're already doing that. Look at the money (and lives) being
>: spent in Iraq.
>
> Ahhh... I get it now...
>
> *disgusted look*

Yeah, I get it now too. These Bush brothers need to leave. One's
screwing us at the federal level and the other's screwing us at the
state level. I've got a disgusted look too.

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>SVTKate wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote
>>>>
>>>>: I don't see it as being wasted, necessarily. Much of what is
>>>>: learned developing the ISS will be applicable to sending a
>>>>: mission to Mars, which seems the next logical step in space
>>>>: exploration with the possible exception of a permanent moon
>>>>: base.
>>>>: Developing the technology to reach Mars, and return, will take
>>>>: time... a long time IMO. I think it will take another 25-30
>>>>: years before it is remotely considered feasible.
>>>>
>>>>I am still having trouble understanding WHY we need to go to Mars.
>>>>
>>>>Seems like a huge waste of money to me.
>>>>HUGE waste of money.
>>>>
>>>>Like this last little $300 million foofah... lets shoot a rocket
>>>>at an asteroid.
>>>>$300 freaking MILLION dollars, good thing this country isn't in
>>>>debt, or that might be considered a waste of money.
>>>>
>>>>I grew up knowing that if you can't pay your bills, you can't buy
>>>>new toys either.
>>>>Why our government cannot understand that is beyond me.
>>
>>
>> Dubya's the one who doesn't get it.
>>
>>
>>>IMO, there is a real good reason for doing it and it really has
>>>nothing to do with reaching Mars or any other planet. Sooner or
>>>later, an asteroid is going to be heading toward our planet. If it
>>>is big enough it would destroy life as we know it and likely
>>>exterminate mankind. Even a smaller impact could kill billions of
>>>people. All this space exploration will enable us to better detect
>>>and, if necessary, maybe deflect any body that is on a collision
>>>course with earth. Granted the odds are slim for a collision but
>>>it has happened in the past and it will happen in the future. It
>>>is not a matter of if but when. Plus, there are usually some very
>>>good spin-off technologies coming from space programs that seem to
>>>be very useful in everyday life. Just look at the things we take
>>>for granted today that were derived from the 1960's space programs.
>>
>>
>> I think it's more like we can learn the origins of where we came
>> from by studying other planets and the universe. This, in turn,
>> can help us develop better things in our time, i.e., cures for
>> diseases etc.
>>
>>
>>>Plus if the government didn't spend it on space programs they would
>>>probably spend on something even more useless.
>>
>>
>> They're already doing that. Look at the money (and lives) being
>> spent in Iraq.
>
> IMO, it will take 20-30 years before we really know if the lives and
> money were wasted.

Can you say 'Viet Nam'? Sure you can.

"SVTKate" > wrote in news:LlCAe.1949
:

>
> "Joe" > wrote
>:
>: You want waste? One word: Iraq. Both lives and money are being
>: thrown away.
>
> We heard you the first time.

Good. It can't be said enough.

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>SVTKate wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote
>>>>:
>>>>: As a follow up to my reply to Kate, I think we should target a
>>>>: large asteroid and see how we can affect its long term
>>>>: trajectory through various means. Developing that capability
>>>>: might prove useful one day!
>>>>
>>>>Well, I suppose it might prove useful someday, kind of like the
>>>>set of taillights I took off of my car MAY be useful someday, not
>>>>likely, but possible.
>>>>In the meantime... I still think...
>>>>
>>>>Ok, here's the rub.
>>>>Only as an example, but a real problem.
>>>>
>>>>Recently in this state they have cut the Tenncare rolls
>>>>significantly. Loads of people who are really sick (yes and I am
>>>>sure some that are taking advantage) have had their medical
>>>>benefits eliminated.
>>>>
>>>>I see it this way, $300million would do allot to help people.
>>>>People who really need it right ehre and now. People who cannot
>>>>help themselves.
>>>>
>>>>Kind of the same way I see big fancy churches with the wide
>>>>screens and Dolby sound.
>>>>The money spent could be used to do some real good....
>>>>
>>>>I know it's a soap box, I just have this terribly practical side.
>>>
>>>The waste bother me too. I also think that while the possibility
>>>is remote we should have a plan for dealing with a rogue
>>>comet/asteroid. It would take that much money. Besides if we are
>>>ever hit it would make the suffer you just described look like
>>>mankind had a common cold, relatively speaking. The real shame is
>>>that we, and other nations, have to spend so much on defense and
>>>military related areas. If we would all just play nice with each
>>>other think of the greater good we could accomplish.
>>
>>
>> You want waste? One word: Iraq. Both lives and money are being
>> thrown away.
>
> To repeat myself, we really won't know for decades if it was a waste
> or a brilliant move on Bush's part. History will be the judge.

Brilliant? Everybody's entitled to their own opinion.

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>SVTKate wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>: I don't see it as being wasted, necessarily. Much of what is
>>>>>: learned developing the ISS will be applicable to sending a
>>>>>: mission to Mars, which seems the next logical step in space
>>>>>: exploration with the possible exception of a permanent moon
>>>>>: base.
>>>>>: Developing the technology to reach Mars, and return, will take
>>>>>: time... a long time IMO. I think it will take another 25-30
>>>>>: years before it is remotely considered feasible.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am still having trouble understanding WHY we need to go to Mars.
>>>>>
>>>>>Seems like a huge waste of money to me.
>>>>>HUGE waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>>Like this last little $300 million foofah... lets shoot a rocket
>>>>>at an asteroid.
>>>>>$300 freaking MILLION dollars, good thing this country isn't in
>>>>>debt, or that might be considered a waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>>I grew up knowing that if you can't pay your bills, you can't buy
>>>>>new toys either.
>>>>>Why our government cannot understand that is beyond me.
>>>
>>>
>>>Dubya's the one who doesn't get it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>IMO, there is a real good reason for doing it and it really has
>>>>nothing to do with reaching Mars or any other planet. Sooner or
>>>>later, an asteroid is going to be heading toward our planet. If it
>>>>is big enough it would destroy life as we know it and likely
>>>>exterminate mankind. Even a smaller impact could kill billions of
>>>>people. All this space exploration will enable us to better detect
>>>>and, if necessary, maybe deflect any body that is on a collision
>>>>course with earth. Granted the odds are slim for a collision but
>>>>it has happened in the past and it will happen in the future. It
>>>>is not a matter of if but when. Plus, there are usually some very
>>>>good spin-off technologies coming from space programs that seem to
>>>>be very useful in everyday life. Just look at the things we take
>>>>for granted today that were derived from the 1960's space programs.
>>>
>>>
>>>I think it's more like we can learn the origins of where we came
>>>from by studying other planets and the universe. This, in turn,
>>>can help us develop better things in our time, i.e., cures for
>>>diseases etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Plus if the government didn't spend it on space programs they would
>>>>probably spend on something even more useless.
>>>
>>>
>>>They're already doing that. Look at the money (and lives) being
>>>spent in Iraq.
>>
>>IMO, it will take 20-30 years before we really know if the lives and
>>money were wasted.
>
>
> Can you say 'Viet Nam'? Sure you can.

I don't think you can equate the two after just 2-3 years in Iraq.
Vietnam was 10-15 years in the making. Plus the casualties aren't
anywhere near the level of Vietnam at its worst, or best, for that
matter. Vietnam was a regional power struggle between the USSR and the
US and this was the real reason the war lasted so long. We could have
won it but we would probably have ended up fighting the Chinese, just
like in Korea. Iraq is not even close to this type of war. The recent
news report seem to suggest that troop levels will drop by 100,000 next
year. I hope they are correct.