Who Says Cars Aren't an Investment?

"C.H." > wrote in message
news
> No, but neither is 11s from 0-60. Even econoboxes nowadays manage to get
> to 60 in less than 10s.

Toyota Corolla's O-60 is about 11 seconds, Honda Civic is about 12
seconds. You are wrong.

0-60 of 11 seconds is fast compared to some cars of the past. Cars in the
40's and 50's were considered "fast" if they could accelerate that quickly.
In Europe many of the cars that are driven have 0-60 acceleration of over 10
seconds, and some over 14 seconds.

"C.H." > wrote in message
news
> > The Prius is bigger than a Corolla.
>
> Sure...

Have you actually looked at one? The leg room in the back of a Prius is
better than a Corolla.

Demographics of those interested in hybrids:

- they drive less than average (but not all)
- they keep cars longer than average
- they expect the price of gasoline to increase

Prius batteries have lasted up to 280,000 miles in the real world.
Somebody in California drove their Prius until the battery died. The
dealership tried to charge 4,000 dollars for the replacement. You can get a
Prius battery off E-bay or from a junkyard for about 400-1,000 dollars.

In article >, Magnulus wrote:
> Prius batteries have lasted up to 280,000 miles in the real world.

And straight ICE vehicles over a 1,000,000 miles....

> Somebody in California drove their Prius until the battery died. The
> dealership tried to charge 4,000 dollars for the replacement. You can get a
> Prius battery off E-bay or from a junkyard for about 400-1,000 dollars.

$400 eh... what is it? cobbled up UPS batteries from china...
And a junkyard battery? unless it's a FRESH arrivial, it's folly.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, L Sternn wrote:

> >The lifespan that matters for manufacturers of japanese cars is about 5
> >years, because the Shakken (inspeciton agency) in Japan makes you junk
> >your car after five years anyway.

> Then why is the average age of cars on Japanese roads twice that old?

'tisn't. Not even close. CH is correct; it is deliberately made
economically almost impossible to keep a car more than 5 years old in
Japan. They ship their used cars by the tens of thousands to New Zealand,
Russia, and other countries around the world where RHD cars conforming to
Japanese safety standards are permitted on the road.

DS

In article ich.edu>, Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> 'tisn't. Not even close. CH is correct; it is deliberately made
> economically almost impossible to keep a car more than 5 years old in
> Japan. They ship their used cars by the tens of thousands to New Zealand,
> Russia, and other countries around the world where RHD cars conforming to
> Japanese safety standards are permitted on the road.

And things like engines to the USA and probably the rest of the LHD
world. Googled for something to confirm my memory:

Where they end up:
http://www.enginereplacement.com/htdocs/import.htm
And where they come from:
http://www.autojapan.net/

A junkyard in japan with english speaking employees answering the phones
isn't selling the parts locally.

"Magnulus" > writes:
> "C.H." > wrote in message
> news >
>> > But you'll be paying for the increased price of gas, and also will be
>> > emitting alot more carbon dioxide than the person driving the Prius.
>>
>> No, the person driving the Prius will have emitted a lot more carbon
>> dioxide than my car will do for the rest of its lifespam just by having
>> their Prius built.
>
> OK... here you are full of crap. The energy to make a car can come from
> renewable resources or resources that do not produce CO2 as waste products.
> I also want proof that making a car uses so much energy . If your SUV gets
> only 18 mpg, well, I can't see how driving it 12,000 miles a year wouldn't
> use more energy than making it. A gallon of gasoline has about 41 kw/hr of
> energy- most of it is wasted by a gasoline engine. I don't see how it
> could possibly take more energy to make a new car than to drive it around.

You need to take some course in basic thermodynamics before there's
any use debating any of those statements. Since I feel playful \, I'll
jus throw some one-liners to show the contradicitons in the

From what you say all electricity comes from renewable sources, right?
After all that's what manufacturers would use in the factories.

Most stored energy is wasted, no matter how its conversion. The Otto
cycle is not a particularly ineffective one.

>> That _is_ puny. My car accelerates from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds and you are
>> seriously recommending such a rolling roadblock as a replacement?
>
> You obviously drive a sports car that exceeds the needs of almost all
> drivers, realisticly. You do not need that kind of acceleration to drive a
> car. If you need that kind of acceleration, you are driving wrong (likely
> speeding to pass, rather than looking for openings).

If you're not speeding to pass, you are not passing anyone. You might
be micro-passing creating all kinds of nasty problems, from adding
congestion to inducing road rage.

>> I guarantee you, if I drove a Prius the mileage would not even be close to
>> 50mpg, simply because I dont just tap the accelerator scarefully (note
>> the combination of scared and careful), which is necessary to even come
>> into the ballpark of Toyota's extremely optimistic figures.
>
> Prius was driven by professional drivers in the EPA tests, none of whom
> tapped the accelerator scarefully. In the real world the Prius, at worst,
> seems to get around 40-50 mpg on highways, and in the mid 30's in very cold
> winter, as the cold saps the energy out of the batteries. Some people of
> course get much better fuel economy.

You need to learn about EPA testing too. Hint: there's no driver in
the car!

--
Ignasi.
(using SPAM trap e-mail address)

"Magnulus" > writes:
> Demographics of those interested in hybrids:

I'll add translations to reality:

> - they drive less than average (but not all)

Some drive less than average, some don't.

> - they keep cars longer than average

They think they keep cars longer than average.

> - they expect the price of gasoline to increase

They breath and read the paper.

--
Ignasi.
(using SPAM trap e-mail address)

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:15:59 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:12:46 -0700, L Sternn > wrote:
>
>>>, b) are custom made for this specific car and c) will
>>>simply be unavailable 10-15 years from now.
>>
>>If there's a market for them, they will be available.
>
> Right.
> Talk to GM about that.
> Thjey just pulled their electric car for the specific reason that you
> tried to address.

No, GM pulled the electric car, because there was _no_ market for it, at
least not one big enough to finish development and actually sell it. The
car was leased to customers for good reasons, availability of spares being
one of them.

Electric cars neither make sense from an engergy consumption standpoint
nor from an economic one.

Chris