94 Explorer cranks but no start, details inside Thanks for any help

"J Adams" > wrote in message
...
> On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> >On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
> >>
> >> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
> >> >> >1. spark
> >> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
> >> >> >3. timing
> >> >> >4. compression
> >>
> >> >> >At least one of those is missing.
> >>
> >> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an
1/8"
> >> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
> >> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is
not
> >> >> >working.
> >>
> >> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
> >> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
> >>
> >> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
> >>
> >> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
> >> >> off.
> >>
> >> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
> >> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
> >> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
> >> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
> >> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
> >> >-Paul
> >>
> >> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
> >> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
> >>
> >> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
> >>
> >> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
> >>
> >
> >Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>
> Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
> thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
> gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.
>
> Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
> disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.
>
> I tried to start the engine again with no luck.
>
> I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
> until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.
>
> What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
> connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.
>
> By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
> up correctly and spark all along...I guess.
>
> Any Thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim

Since this is a '94 did you check the positive battery cable? They can
deteriorate inside the insulation and look fine on the outside. Are the
connections all clean?

I don't know if the brains on the '94 are the same as the '97 but on my '97
it was doing exactly what you are describing. It turned out to be a bad
battery. Two of the cells were a little weaker than the others. Apparently
there was enough juice to turn the starter motor and crank the engine but
not enough to make spark. I also cleaned the contacts on my crank position
sensor so that may have contributed to the solution too.

If you have a good, fairly new battery I suggest trying it.

On Apr 6, 7:44 am, "Ulysses" > wrote:
> "J Adams" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> > >On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
> > >> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> > >> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
> > >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> > >> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>
> > >> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
> > >> >> >1. spark
> > >> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
> > >> >> >3. timing
> > >> >> >4. compression
>
> > >> >> >At least one of those is missing.
>
> > >> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an
> 1/8"
> > >> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
> > >> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is
> not
> > >> >> >working.
>
> > >> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
> > >> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>
> > >> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>
> > >> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
> > >> >> off.
>
> > >> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
> > >> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
> > >> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
> > >> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
> > >> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
> > >> >-Paul
>
> > >> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
> > >> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
>
> > >> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
>
> > >> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
>
> > >Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>
> > Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
> > thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
> > gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.
>
> > Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
> > disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.
>
> > I tried to start the engine again with no luck.
>
> > I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
> > until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.
>
> > What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
> > connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.
>
> > By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
> > up correctly and spark all along...I guess.
>
> > Any Thoughts?
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Jim
>
> Since this is a '94 did you check the positive battery cable? They can
> deteriorate inside the insulation and look fine on the outside. Are the
> connections all clean?
>
> I don't know if the brains on the '94 are the same as the '97 but on my '97
> it was doing exactly what you are describing. It turned out to be a bad
> battery. Two of the cells were a little weaker than the others. Apparently
> there was enough juice to turn the starter motor and crank the engine but
> not enough to make spark. I also cleaned the contacts on my crank position
> sensor so that may have contributed to the solution too.
>
> If you have a good, fairly new battery I suggest trying it.

It's true that a failing battery/poor connection can cause strange
symptoms. I too had this on a Dodge Caravan- seemed to be cranking
fine, sounded normal, but messed up the computer.
-Paul

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:44:17 -0700, "Ulysses"
> wrote:

>
>"J Adams" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> >> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>> >>
>> >> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
>> >> >> >1. spark
>> >> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
>> >> >> >3. timing
>> >> >> >4. compression
>> >>
>> >> >> >At least one of those is missing.
>> >>
>> >> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an
>1/8"
>> >> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
>> >> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is
>not
>> >> >> >working.
>> >>
>> >> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
>> >> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>> >>
>> >> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>> >>
>> >> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
>> >> >> off.
>> >>
>> >> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
>> >> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
>> >> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
>> >> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
>> >> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
>> >> >-Paul
>> >>
>> >> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
>> >> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
>> >>
>> >> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
>> >>
>> >> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
>> >>
>> >
>> >Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>>
>> Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
>> thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
>> gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.
>>
>> Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
>> disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.
>>
>> I tried to start the engine again with no luck.
>>
>> I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
>> until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.
>>
>> What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
>> connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.
>>
>> By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
>> up correctly and spark all along...I guess.
>>
>> Any Thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jim
>
>Since this is a '94 did you check the positive battery cable? They can
>deteriorate inside the insulation and look fine on the outside. Are the
>connections all clean?
>
>I don't know if the brains on the '94 are the same as the '97 but on my '97
>it was doing exactly what you are describing. It turned out to be a bad
>battery. Two of the cells were a little weaker than the others. Apparently
>there was enough juice to turn the starter motor and crank the engine but
>not enough to make spark. I also cleaned the contacts on my crank position
>sensor so that may have contributed to the solution too.
>
>If you have a good, fairly new battery I suggest trying it.
>
Hey Ulysses

Thanks for the info. Interesting handle you are using as that is my
first name. Anyway...

Just had my battery tested and it came back OK even under load. BUT
the positive cable looks bad, so I will replace it. Also, I will pull
the crank position sensor and clean the contacts. This is the unit
that is bottom front center, right?

A further ellaboration might be helpful. When I turn on the ignition I
do not hear the fuel pump run. I hook up the code reader and cycle
test then I hear the fuel and the car will then start. Plus I can hear
the fuel run when I turn on the ignition.

What would the cause the fuel pump to cycle when connected to a code
reader (during test cycle), but not when the ignition is turned on.
Also, It seems to happen when the weather is warm and I can't remember
it happening when the weather is cold.

Thanks

Jim

On 6 Apr 2007 09:04:44 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:

>On Apr 6, 7:44 am, "Ulysses" > wrote:
>> "J Adams" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>> > >On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> > >> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>> > >> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> > >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>>
>> > >> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
>> > >> >> >1. spark
>> > >> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
>> > >> >> >3. timing
>> > >> >> >4. compression
>>
>> > >> >> >At least one of those is missing.
>>
>> > >> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an
>> 1/8"
>> > >> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
>> > >> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is
>> not
>> > >> >> >working.
>>
>> > >> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
>> > >> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>>
>> > >> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>>
>> > >> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
>> > >> >> off.
>>
>> > >> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
>> > >> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
>> > >> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
>> > >> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
>> > >> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
>> > >> >-Paul
>>
>> > >> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
>> > >> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
>>
>> > >> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
>>
>> > >> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
>>
>> > >Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>>
>> > Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
>> > thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
>> > gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.
>>
>> > Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
>> > disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.
>>
>> > I tried to start the engine again with no luck.
>>
>> > I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
>> > until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.
>>
>> > What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
>> > connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.
>>
>> > By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
>> > up correctly and spark all along...I guess.
>>
>> > Any Thoughts?
>>
>> > Thanks
>>
>> > Jim
>>
>> Since this is a '94 did you check the positive battery cable? They can
>> deteriorate inside the insulation and look fine on the outside. Are the
>> connections all clean?
>>
>> I don't know if the brains on the '94 are the same as the '97 but on my '97
>> it was doing exactly what you are describing. It turned out to be a bad
>> battery. Two of the cells were a little weaker than the others. Apparently
>> there was enough juice to turn the starter motor and crank the engine but
>> not enough to make spark. I also cleaned the contacts on my crank position
>> sensor so that may have contributed to the solution too.
>>
>> If you have a good, fairly new battery I suggest trying it.
>
>It's true that a failing battery/poor connection can cause strange
>symptoms. I too had this on a Dodge Caravan- seemed to be cranking
>fine, sounded normal, but messed up the computer.
>-Paul

Paul,

The battery tested fine, so I'm going replace the positive cable. It
does seem erratic so maybe it is computer related as a result of poor
connections. Would warm weather be a factor?

Jim

"J Adams" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:44:17 -0700, "Ulysses"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"J Adams" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
> >> >> >> >1. spark
> >> >> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
> >> >> >> >3. timing
> >> >> >> >4. compression
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >At least one of those is missing.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an
> >1/8"
> >> >> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver,
whatever.
> >> >> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is
> >not
> >> >> >> >working.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
> >> >> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no
spark.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept
going
> >> >> >> off.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
> >> >> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
> >> >> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
> >> >> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's
not
> >> >> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
> >> >> >-Paul
> >> >>
> >> >> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
> >> >> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
> >> >>
> >> >> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
> >> >>
> >> >> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
> >>
> >> Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
> >> thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
> >> gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.
> >>
> >> Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
> >> disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.
> >>
> >> I tried to start the engine again with no luck.
> >>
> >> I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
> >> until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.
> >>
> >> What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
> >> connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.
> >>
> >> By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
> >> up correctly and spark all along...I guess.
> >>
> >> Any Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Jim
> >
> >Since this is a '94 did you check the positive battery cable? They can
> >deteriorate inside the insulation and look fine on the outside. Are the
> >connections all clean?
> >
> >I don't know if the brains on the '94 are the same as the '97 but on my
'97
> >it was doing exactly what you are describing. It turned out to be a bad
> >battery. Two of the cells were a little weaker than the others.
Apparently
> >there was enough juice to turn the starter motor and crank the engine but
> >not enough to make spark. I also cleaned the contacts on my crank
position
> >sensor so that may have contributed to the solution too.
> >
> >If you have a good, fairly new battery I suggest trying it.
> >
> Hey Ulysses
>
> Thanks for the info. Interesting handle you are using as that is my
> first name. Anyway...

Huh. My name is Jim too. I use Ulysses from Homer's story The Odyssey.

>
> Just had my battery tested and it came back OK even under load. BUT
> the positive cable looks bad, so I will replace it. Also, I will pull
> the crank position sensor and clean the contacts. This is the unit
> that is bottom front center, right?

I'm not sure where it is on the '94 but that's where it is on the '97.
Pretty easy to get to.

>
> A further ellaboration might be helpful. When I turn on the ignition I
> do not hear the fuel pump run. I hook up the code reader and cycle
> test then I hear the fuel and the car will then start. Plus I can hear
> the fuel run when I turn on the ignition.

My understanding up to this point was that you had verified that you have
adequate fuel pressure. You DID test it, didn't you? At this point I have
to ask: Did you push the fuel shut-off reset button?

When mine would not start I tested the fuel pressure and it was OK. There
was a wire for I'm not sure what attached to the coil pack that looked
damaged so I cut out the damaged part and resoldered it. Nothing. I tested
the voltage at the coil and it tested OK. The fuese were all OK.
Everything the Hayne's manual said to check tested OK. The battery even
*seemed* to be OK as far as the voltage and ability to accept a charge were
concerned. My battery connectons were clean and tight. Sometimes the car
would start and sometimes not. It seemed to be happening more often when it
had been sitting for a day or so. I also tried to determine if the problem
was fuel pump related and was happening more if it was parked facing
downhill. Inconclusive. I cleaned the contacts on the crankcase position
sensor and replaced the battery and the problem has not reoccured. But this
was a '97 and the '91-94s are notorious for bad positive cables.

>
> What would the cause the fuel pump to cycle when connected to a code
> reader (during test cycle), but not when the ignition is turned on.
> Also, It seems to happen when the weather is warm and I can't remember
> it happening when the weather is cold.

In any case if you can't hear the fuel pump cycling when you turn on the key
then I'd start with the ignition switch, go to the pump relay, check the
battery and cables and connections, push the fuel reset button, and make
sure power is getting to the fuel pump. I had a bad ignition switch on my
'91 but I don't remember what the specific symptoms were. It was probably
obvious. I also suggest that you pull out all ignition and fuel pump
related fuses, check and clean contacts as needed, and reinstall them.
Maybe you just have a dirty connection somewhere.

>
> Thanks
>
> Jim

>> Hey Ulysses/Jim
>>
>>
>> Just had my battery tested and it came back OK even under load. BUT
>> the positive cable looks bad, so I will replace it. Also, I will pull
>> the crank position sensor and clean the contacts. This is the unit
>> that is bottom front center, right?
>
>I'm not sure where it is on the '94 but that's where it is on the '97.
>Pretty easy to get to.
>
>>
>> A further ellaboration might be helpful. When I turn on the ignition I
>> do not hear the fuel pump run. I hook up the code reader and cycle
>> test then I hear the fuel and the car will then start. Plus I can hear
>> the fuel run when I turn on the ignition.
>
>My understanding up to this point was that you had verified that you have
>adequate fuel pressure. You DID test it, didn't you? At this point I have
>to ask: Did you push the fuel shut-off reset button?

Yes the fuel presure was OK, went to 40psi and dropped to 38psi and
held at 38psi.

Fuel shut-off reset button? Didn't know there was one, what does it
look like and where is it? Can't find it in the Haynes manual.

>When mine would not start I tested the fuel pressure and it was OK. There
>was a wire for I'm not sure what attached to the coil pack that looked
>damaged so I cut out the damaged part and resoldered it. Nothing. I tested
>the voltage at the coil and it tested OK. The fuese were all OK.
>Everything the Hayne's manual said to check tested OK. The battery even
>*seemed* to be OK as far as the voltage and ability to accept a charge were
>concerned. My battery connectons were clean and tight. Sometimes the car
>would start and sometimes not. It seemed to be happening more often when it
>had been sitting for a day or so.

These are the exact symptoms, except sometimes it has happened when I
went into the store and came back out and wouldn't start (3 times).

>I also tried to determine if the problem
>was fuel pump related and was happening more if it was parked facing
>downhill. Inconclusive. I cleaned the contacts on the crankcase position
>sensor and replaced the battery and the problem has not reoccured. But this
>was a '97 and the '91-94s are notorious for bad positive cables.

Just replaced the positive cable. I'm curious how the crankcase
position sensor would affect it. It did not show up on the code reader
test cycle. However, I'm going to Mexico next weekend so better safe
than sorry so I will clean the contacts anyway. Even though the
battery test out OK I'm willing to replace it. Yes?

>> What would the cause the fuel pump to cycle when connected to a code
>> reader (during test cycle), but not when the ignition is turned on.
>> Also, It seems to happen when the weather is warm and I can't remember
>> it happening when the weather is cold.
>
>In any case if you can't hear the fuel pump cycling when you turn on the key
>then I'd start with the ignition switch, go to the pump relay, check the
>battery and cables and connections, push the fuel reset button, and make
>sure power is getting to the fuel pump. I had a bad ignition switch on my
>'91 but I don't remember what the specific symptoms were. It was probably
>obvious. I also suggest that you pull out all ignition and fuel pump
>related fuses, check and clean contacts as needed, and reinstall them.
>Maybe you just have a dirty connection somewhere.

Replaced the fuel pump relay, just in case, and have now pulled,
clean, and reinstalled all relays.

I keep coming back to what would cause the fuel pump to cycle when the
code reader test cycle activated and not the ignition switch. Then
once the fuel pump cycled via the code reader the fuel pump would
cycle with the ignition switch.

Thanks again

Jim

In article >,
J Adams > wrote:
>I keep coming back to what would cause the fuel pump to cycle when the
>code reader test cycle activated and not the ignition switch. Then
>once the fuel pump cycled via the code reader the fuel pump would
>cycle with the ignition switch.

An ignition switch issue can show up as all sorts of things. On my wife's
'92 Acura Legend, the car would start, but it would shut off as soon as you let
go of the key. The grease in the switch had gotten old and was acting as an
insulator on some of the contacts, turning off the power to the engine and
computer when you let go of the key. I cleaned the switch with some contact
cleaner I got at an electronics store and the problem went away. My wife
insisted on a new switch (just the part with the contacts and the cable to
the bulkhead was $100) so I replaced it.

--
Mike Iglesias Email:
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 03:46:24 GMT, J Adams > wrote:

>>I also tried to determine if the problem
>>was fuel pump related and was happening more if it was parked facing
>>downhill. Inconclusive. I cleaned the contacts on the crankcase position
>>sensor and replaced the battery and the problem has not reoccured. But this
>>was a '97 and the '91-94s are notorious for bad positive cables.
>
>Just replaced the positive cable. I'm curious how the crankcase
>position sensor would affect it. It did not show up on the code reader
>test cycle. However, I'm going to Mexico next weekend so better safe
>than sorry so I will clean the contacts anyway. Even though the
>battery test out OK I'm willing to replace it. Yes?

I had a starting problem on my '91. Got progressively harder to
start till finally it would not start. The problem was finally
tracked down to the group of wires that are located near and under the
positive battery post. Two of the wires were corroded to the point
of failure. A new length of wire was spliced in and the problem was
solved.
Hope this helps
John Normile

On Apr 7, 7:46 pm, J Adams > wrote:

> Fuel shut-off reset button? Didn't know there was one, what does it
> look like and where is it? Can't find it in the Haynes manual.
>

You can rule that out. If the fuel shut-off is tripped it won't start
at all until that is reset.
-Paul

"J Adams" > wrote in message
...
>
> >> Hey Ulysses/Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> Just had my battery tested and it came back OK even under load. BUT
> >> the positive cable looks bad, so I will replace it. Also, I will pull
> >> the crank position sensor and clean the contacts. This is the unit
> >> that is bottom front center, right?
> >
> >I'm not sure where it is on the '94 but that's where it is on the '97.
> >Pretty easy to get to.
> >
> >>
> >> A further ellaboration might be helpful. When I turn on the ignition I
> >> do not hear the fuel pump run. I hook up the code reader and cycle
> >> test then I hear the fuel and the car will then start. Plus I can hear
> >> the fuel run when I turn on the ignition.
> >
> >My understanding up to this point was that you had verified that you have
> >adequate fuel pressure. You DID test it, didn't you? At this point I
have
> >to ask: Did you push the fuel shut-off reset button?
>
> Yes the fuel presure was OK, went to 40psi and dropped to 38psi and
> held at 38psi.

Like Paul said, if you have fuel pressure it's not the reset switch. FYI
it's located just under the top of the carpet on the front, passenger side.
I think the button is red.

>
> Fuel shut-off reset button? Didn't know there was one, what does it
> look like and where is it? Can't find it in the Haynes manual.
>
> >When mine would not start I tested the fuel pressure and it was OK.
There
> >was a wire for I'm not sure what attached to the coil pack that looked
> >damaged so I cut out the damaged part and resoldered it. Nothing. I
tested
> >the voltage at the coil and it tested OK. The fuese were all OK.
> >Everything the Hayne's manual said to check tested OK. The battery even
> >*seemed* to be OK as far as the voltage and ability to accept a charge
were
> >concerned. My battery connectons were clean and tight. Sometimes the
car
> >would start and sometimes not. It seemed to be happening more often when
it
> >had been sitting for a day or so.
>
> These are the exact symptoms, except sometimes it has happened when I
> went into the store and came back out and wouldn't start (3 times).
>
> >I also tried to determine if the problem
> >was fuel pump related and was happening more if it was parked facing
> >downhill. Inconclusive. I cleaned the contacts on the crankcase
position
> >sensor and replaced the battery and the problem has not reoccured. But
this
> >was a '97 and the '91-94s are notorious for bad positive cables.
>
> Just replaced the positive cable. I'm curious how the crankcase
> position sensor would affect it. It did not show up on the code reader
> test cycle. However, I'm going to Mexico next weekend so better safe
> than sorry so I will clean the contacts anyway. Even though the
> battery test out OK I'm willing to replace it. Yes?

If you are going to drive it to Mexico can we assume it's been starting
reliably?

If the car's computer cannot read the crankcase position it will not allow
the ignition to spark. I don't know how to test the sensor but I'll bet
they don't cost a whole lot to replace. If you don't get it from Ford
anyway.

On a newer car I would not do the "shotgun" approach and start replacing
everything under the hood but we are talking about a 13 year old truck here
so IMHO it might be reasonable to replace a few suspected items that have
not proven defective but could possibly cause problems in the near future.
When my '91 was overheating I replaced the radiator, radiator cap, fan, fan
clutch, water pump, and thermostat. The water pump still seemed OK and the
radiator was not leaking but with about 200K miles on it I felt it was about
due anyway. No more overheating problems anyway.

Come to think of it I had a '93 Escort Wagon and when the battery had
reached the end of it's days the engine would crank but not start. Kinda
makes you long for the days when engines had distributors and no brains and
manual transmissions so you could push-start them. I parked my ol' '61 VW
on a hill whenever I stopped it so I could just roll down to get it going
;-). If there was no hill the thing was so light I could push it myself and
jump in, pop the clutch and be on my way.

>
> >> What would the cause the fuel pump to cycle when connected to a code
> >> reader (during test cycle), but not when the ignition is turned on.
> >> Also, It seems to happen when the weather is warm and I can't remember
> >> it happening when the weather is cold.

It's been a while and I'm getting kinda old but if I remember correctly on
my '97 when I disconnected the crankcase position sensor and reconnected it
the fuel pump cycled. Maybe. And of course a '97 is not a '94. Same
engine though.

> >
> >In any case if you can't hear the fuel pump cycling when you turn on the
key
> >then I'd start with the ignition switch, go to the pump relay, check the
> >battery and cables and connections, push the fuel reset button, and make
> >sure power is getting to the fuel pump. I had a bad ignition switch on
my
> >'91 but I don't remember what the specific symptoms were. It was
probably
> >obvious. I also suggest that you pull out all ignition and fuel pump
> >related fuses, check and clean contacts as needed, and reinstall them.
> >Maybe you just have a dirty connection somewhere.
>
> Replaced the fuel pump relay, just in case, and have now pulled,
> clean, and reinstalled all relays.
>
> I keep coming back to what would cause the fuel pump to cycle when the
> code reader test cycle activated and not the ignition switch. Then
> once the fuel pump cycled via the code reader the fuel pump would
> cycle with the ignition switch.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Jim