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Dana 30 gear noise



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 18th 05, 05:25 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hmm. A conundrum has surfaced. I've incrementally increased the torque on
the pinion nut a few times to the maximum of 250 ft-lbs my torque wrench
will do. The preload has increased, i can feel more resistance to turning,
but I can still turn the pinion nut with my in-lbs torque wrench set to it's
minimum of 25 in-lbs without it clicking.

What do I do? Crank on the pinion nut with a breaker bar and hope I don't go
to far, or put it all back together and hope the preload is enough as-is?

/Peter

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> That is the idea Peter. It can take up to 500 ft lb to set that sucker
> according to the book I have. I was always told to go at least to 300,
> but as mentioned, I have never done one.
>
> Mike
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Disregard what, exactly? The bit about the air impact wrench? Seeing as

I
> > don't have one, that won't be a problem ;-)
> >
> > Actually, someone mentioned somewhere in this thread that using anything
> > further sown the drivetrain to hold the pinion from turning wouldn't

work.
> > Now that I've played around with it a bit more, I can see - or should I

say
> > feel - how the gear teeth would cause the pinion to "walk" a bit,

thowing
> > things off. I think the only way to do this properly is to have

something to
> > hold the yoke itself, which is what I've done. I've reinstalled it using

red
> > Loc-Tite on the nut, snugged it up to 160 ft-lbs, and removed my yoke
> > grabber. The axle shafts are removed, and it's taking way less torque

than
> > my inch-lbs torque wrench can measure to turn the pinion.
> >
> > So, just to make sure, what I should be doing now is increasing the

torque
> > on the pinion yoke nut incrementally until it takes 30 inch-lbs or so to
> > turn the pinion?
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "Earle Horton" > wrote in message
> > news:1121699291.1230ba0de444f436447964b5ba854b66@t eranews...
> > > Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I

have
> > more
> > > experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench

like
> > a
> > > > regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of

the
> > cone
> > > > (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench

to
> > grab
> > > > that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get

pretty
> > > > messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an

oil
> > > > filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
> > > >
> > > > I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be

> > bolted
> > > to
> > > > the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is

> > sufficient.
> > > I
> > > > don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes

to
> > > hold
> > > > it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems

> > like
> > > > excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very

humid.
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about

a
> > > > > plumbers pipe wrench?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the

socket
> > > > > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it

> > while
> > > > > still being able to turn.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my

wife
> > > > isn't
> > > > > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab

up
> > > this
> > > > > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4"

x 1
> > > > 1/2"
> > > > > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient,

or
> > > should
> > > > I
> > > > > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one

in
> > the
> > > > > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the
> > > > driveshaft to
> > > > > > this yoke ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if

you
> > > don't
> > > > > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel

up
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion

to
> > > hold
> > > > it
> > > > > > > steady while tightening.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and

other
> > > kinds
> > > > > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine

> > wrong
> > > > > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine

> > shop!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot

do
> > the
> > > > > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you

do,
> > > you
> > > > > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the

pinion
> > gear
> > > > from
> > > > > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for

that.
> > > > This is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a
> > > wrench
> > > > of
> > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for
> > > holding
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > yoke.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers,

hubs,
> > and
> > > > axle
> > > > > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on

to
> > > > tighten
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's

right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in

message
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed

out
> > as
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was

up
> > > > against
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds
> > > without
> > > > > > axles,
> > > > > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue

Loc-Tite
> > > > then.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and

tighten
> > the
> > > > nut to
> > > > > > 160
> > > > > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and

turned
> > > the
> > > > > > pinion
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it

> > needs
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard

to
> > tell
> > > > > > what's
> > > > > > > > lash
> > > > > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a

helper
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake

pedal
> > > > hard
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion

nut.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in

> > message
> > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that

have
> > > > loosened.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is

not
> > > > sliding
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as

the
> > > > crush
> > > > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them.

Have
> > > you
> > > > hit
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful

in
> > > > feeling
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's

been
> > > > re-used
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on

it?
> > > Red
> > > > or
> > > > > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >



Ads
  #32  
Old July 18th 05, 06:01 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mine got destroyed because the impact gun didn't get it tight enough
although I was assured it was set for 350.

Mike

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Hmm. A conundrum has surfaced. I've incrementally increased the torque on
> the pinion nut a few times to the maximum of 250 ft-lbs my torque wrench
> will do. The preload has increased, i can feel more resistance to turning,
> but I can still turn the pinion nut with my in-lbs torque wrench set to it's
> minimum of 25 in-lbs without it clicking.
>
> What do I do? Crank on the pinion nut with a breaker bar and hope I don't go
> to far, or put it all back together and hope the preload is enough as-is?
>
> /Peter
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > That is the idea Peter. It can take up to 500 ft lb to set that sucker
> > according to the book I have. I was always told to go at least to 300,
> > but as mentioned, I have never done one.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Disregard what, exactly? The bit about the air impact wrench? Seeing as

> I
> > > don't have one, that won't be a problem ;-)
> > >
> > > Actually, someone mentioned somewhere in this thread that using anything
> > > further sown the drivetrain to hold the pinion from turning wouldn't

> work.
> > > Now that I've played around with it a bit more, I can see - or should I

> say
> > > feel - how the gear teeth would cause the pinion to "walk" a bit,

> thowing
> > > things off. I think the only way to do this properly is to have

> something to
> > > hold the yoke itself, which is what I've done. I've reinstalled it using

> red
> > > Loc-Tite on the nut, snugged it up to 160 ft-lbs, and removed my yoke
> > > grabber. The axle shafts are removed, and it's taking way less torque

> than
> > > my inch-lbs torque wrench can measure to turn the pinion.
> > >
> > > So, just to make sure, what I should be doing now is increasing the

> torque
> > > on the pinion yoke nut incrementally until it takes 30 inch-lbs or so to
> > > turn the pinion?
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "Earle Horton" > wrote in message
> > > news:1121699291.1230ba0de444f436447964b5ba854b66@t eranews...
> > > > Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I

> have
> > > more
> > > > experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench

> like
> > > a
> > > > > regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of

> the
> > > cone
> > > > > (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench

> to
> > > grab
> > > > > that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get

> pretty
> > > > > messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an

> oil
> > > > > filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be
> > > bolted
> > > > to
> > > > > the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is
> > > sufficient.
> > > > I
> > > > > don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes

> to
> > > > hold
> > > > > it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems
> > > like
> > > > > excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very

> humid.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about

> a
> > > > > > plumbers pipe wrench?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the

> socket
> > > > > > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it
> > > while
> > > > > > still being able to turn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my

> wife
> > > > > isn't
> > > > > > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab

> up
> > > > this
> > > > > > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4"

> x 1
> > > > > 1/2"
> > > > > > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient,

> or
> > > > should
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one

> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the
> > > > > driveshaft to
> > > > > > > this yoke ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if

> you
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel

> up
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion

> to
> > > > hold
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > steady while tightening.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and

> other
> > > > kinds
> > > > > > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine
> > > wrong
> > > > > > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine
> > > shop!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot

> do
> > > the
> > > > > > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you

> do,
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the

> pinion
> > > gear
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for

> that.
> > > > > This is
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a
> > > > wrench
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for
> > > > holding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > yoke.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers,

> hubs,
> > > and
> > > > > axle
> > > > > > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on

> to
> > > > > tighten
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's

> right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in

> message
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed

> out
> > > as
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was

> up
> > > > > against
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds
> > > > without
> > > > > > > axles,
> > > > > > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue

> Loc-Tite
> > > > > then.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and

> tighten
> > > the
> > > > > nut to
> > > > > > > 160
> > > > > > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and

> turned
> > > > the
> > > > > > > pinion
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it
> > > needs
> > > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard

> to
> > > tell
> > > > > > > what's
> > > > > > > > > lash
> > > > > > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a

> helper
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake

> pedal
> > > > > hard
> > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion

> nut.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in
> > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that

> have
> > > > > loosened.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is

> not
> > > > > sliding
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as

> the
> > > > > crush
> > > > > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them.

> Have
> > > > you
> > > > > hit
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful

> in
> > > > > feeling
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's

> been
> > > > > re-used
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on

> it?
> > > > Red
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

  #33  
Old July 18th 05, 06:11 PM
jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Build yourself a torque wrench extension:
http://www.specialpatrolgroup.co.uk/...ue/torque.html
--
jeff


Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Hmm. A conundrum has surfaced. I've incrementally increased the torque on
> the pinion nut a few times to the maximum of 250 ft-lbs my torque wrench
> will do. The preload has increased, i can feel more resistance to turning,
> but I can still turn the pinion nut with my in-lbs torque wrench set to it's
> minimum of 25 in-lbs without it clicking.
>
> What do I do? Crank on the pinion nut with a breaker bar and hope I don't go
> to far, or put it all back together and hope the preload is enough as-is?

  #34  
Old July 18th 05, 06:18 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think I'd rather risk having to buy a new collapsible spacer than go
through that sort of trouble.

/Peter

"jeff" > wrote in message
news:5pRCe.4114$JJ.2946@trnddc09...
> Build yourself a torque wrench extension:
> http://www.specialpatrolgroup.co.uk/...ue/torque.html
> --
> jeff
>
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > Hmm. A conundrum has surfaced. I've incrementally increased the torque

on
> > the pinion nut a few times to the maximum of 250 ft-lbs my torque wrench
> > will do. The preload has increased, i can feel more resistance to

turning,
> > but I can still turn the pinion nut with my in-lbs torque wrench set to

it's
> > minimum of 25 in-lbs without it clicking.
> >
> > What do I do? Crank on the pinion nut with a breaker bar and hope I

don't go
> > to far, or put it all back together and hope the preload is enough

as-is?


  #35  
Old July 18th 05, 08:18 PM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Earle,
I still do, I believe there's enough weight in the pinion to absorb
the shock, makes setting up a crush sleeve done in seconds. And I've
never had a bearing or ring and pinion failure, broken many factory rear
ends though. Nineteen Ford nine inches in a '61 FX under warranty.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I have more
> experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
>
> Earle

  #36  
Old July 18th 05, 11:06 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, I did both, I tightened the pinion nut a bit beyond 250 using a
breaker bar, then put it all back together hoping the preload was enough. It
wasn't. Still lots of howling when coasting and now it howls when driving at
highway speeds too.

Since I've wasted enough of my time crawling around on the floor of a
superheated garage with no hoist and inadequate tools, I'm going to hand
this off to a pro, assuming I can find one. Haven't had any luck so far,
they keep telling me they don't have torque wrenches that go beyond 250
ft-lbs either.

/Peter

"Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
...
> Hmm. A conundrum has surfaced. I've incrementally increased the torque on
> the pinion nut a few times to the maximum of 250 ft-lbs my torque wrench
> will do. The preload has increased, i can feel more resistance to turning,
> but I can still turn the pinion nut with my in-lbs torque wrench set to

it's
> minimum of 25 in-lbs without it clicking.
>
> What do I do? Crank on the pinion nut with a breaker bar and hope I don't

go
> to far, or put it all back together and hope the preload is enough as-is?
>
> /Peter
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > That is the idea Peter. It can take up to 500 ft lb to set that sucker
> > according to the book I have. I was always told to go at least to 300,
> > but as mentioned, I have never done one.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Disregard what, exactly? The bit about the air impact wrench? Seeing

as
> I
> > > don't have one, that won't be a problem ;-)
> > >
> > > Actually, someone mentioned somewhere in this thread that using

anything
> > > further sown the drivetrain to hold the pinion from turning wouldn't

> work.
> > > Now that I've played around with it a bit more, I can see - or should

I
> say
> > > feel - how the gear teeth would cause the pinion to "walk" a bit,

> thowing
> > > things off. I think the only way to do this properly is to have

> something to
> > > hold the yoke itself, which is what I've done. I've reinstalled it

using
> red
> > > Loc-Tite on the nut, snugged it up to 160 ft-lbs, and removed my yoke
> > > grabber. The axle shafts are removed, and it's taking way less torque

> than
> > > my inch-lbs torque wrench can measure to turn the pinion.
> > >
> > > So, just to make sure, what I should be doing now is increasing the

> torque
> > > on the pinion yoke nut incrementally until it takes 30 inch-lbs or so

to
> > > turn the pinion?
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "Earle Horton" > wrote in message
> > > news:1121699291.1230ba0de444f436447964b5ba854b66@t eranews...
> > > > Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I

> have
> > > more
> > > > experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe

wrench
> like
> > > a
> > > > > regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of

> the
> > > cone
> > > > > (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench

> to
> > > grab
> > > > > that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get

> pretty
> > > > > messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an

> oil
> > > > > filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be
> > > bolted
> > > > to
> > > > > the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is
> > > sufficient.
> > > > I
> > > > > don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the

holes
> to
> > > > hold
> > > > > it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole

seems
> > > like
> > > > > excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very

> humid.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How

about
> a
> > > > > > plumbers pipe wrench?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the

> socket
> > > > > > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under

it
> > > while
> > > > > > still being able to turn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so

my
> wife
> > > > > isn't
> > > > > > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to

fab
> up
> > > > this
> > > > > > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of

1/4"
> x 1
> > > > > 1/2"
> > > > > > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient,

> or
> > > > should
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the

one
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the
> > > > > driveshaft to
> > > > > > > this yoke ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if

> you
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of

steel
> up
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the

pinion
> to
> > > > hold
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > steady while tightening.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and

> other
> > > > kinds
> > > > > > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did

mine
> > > wrong
> > > > > > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real'

machine
> > > shop!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you

cannot
> do
> > > the
> > > > > > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If

you
> do,
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in

'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the

> pinion
> > > gear
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for

> that.
> > > > > This is
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for

a
> > > > wrench
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM

for
> > > > holding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > yoke.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers,

> hubs,
> > > and
> > > > > axle
> > > > > > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back

on
> to
> > > > > tighten
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's

> right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in

> message
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't

bottomed
> out
> > > as
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was

> up
> > > > > against
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch

pounds
> > > > without
> > > > > > > axles,
> > > > > > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue

> Loc-Tite
> > > > > then.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and

> tighten
> > > the
> > > > > nut to
> > > > > > > 160
> > > > > > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and

> turned
> > > > the
> > > > > > > pinion
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so

it
> > > needs
> > > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard

> to
> > > tell
> > > > > > > what's
> > > > > > > > > lash
> > > > > > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a

> helper
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake

> pedal
> > > > > hard
> > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion

> nut.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in
> > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that

> have
> > > > > loosened.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have

is
> not
> > > > > sliding
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did,

as
> the
> > > > > crush
> > > > > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between

them.
> Have
> > > > you
> > > > > hit
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful

> in
> > > > > feeling
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > > > >

http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but

it's
> been
> > > > > re-used
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite

on
> it?
> > > > Red
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

>
>



  #37  
Old July 18th 05, 11:54 PM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Be sure and tell them you switched yokes, I believe that's your
problem, because it should slid right in against the bearing like the
old one.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Well, I did both, I tightened the pinion nut a bit beyond 250 using a
> breaker bar, then put it all back together hoping the preload was enough. It
> wasn't. Still lots of howling when coasting and now it howls when driving at
> highway speeds too.
>
> Since I've wasted enough of my time crawling around on the floor of a
> superheated garage with no hoist and inadequate tools, I'm going to hand
> this off to a pro, assuming I can find one. Haven't had any luck so far,
> they keep telling me they don't have torque wrenches that go beyond 250
> ft-lbs either.
>
> /Peter

  #38  
Old July 19th 05, 12:19 AM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If the yokes differed in the thickness of the splined part, how would that
affect things? Would using a new crush sleeve solve such a problme?

The pinion nut only turned 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn when going from 160 to 250+
ft-lbs, I don't know if that is significant.

/Peter

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Be sure and tell them you switched yokes, I believe that's your
> problem, because it should slid right in against the bearing like the
> old one.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Well, I did both, I tightened the pinion nut a bit beyond 250 using a
> > breaker bar, then put it all back together hoping the preload was

enough. It
> > wasn't. Still lots of howling when coasting and now it howls when

driving at
> > highway speeds too.
> >
> > Since I've wasted enough of my time crawling around on the floor of a
> > superheated garage with no hoist and inadequate tools, I'm going to hand
> > this off to a pro, assuming I can find one. Haven't had any luck so far,
> > they keep telling me they don't have torque wrenches that go beyond 250
> > ft-lbs either.
> >
> > /Peter



  #39  
Old July 19th 05, 12:31 AM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

1/8 of a turn is a significant amount.

Are you using an old crush sleeve????????????

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's



Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> If the yokes differed in the thickness of the splined part, how would that
> affect things? Would using a new crush sleeve solve such a problme?
>
> The pinion nut only turned 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn when going from 160 to 250+
> ft-lbs, I don't know if that is significant.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Be sure and tell them you switched yokes, I believe that's your
> > problem, because it should slid right in against the bearing like the
> > old one.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > http://www.billhughes.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, I did both, I tightened the pinion nut a bit beyond 250 using a
> > > breaker bar, then put it all back together hoping the preload was

> enough. It
> > > wasn't. Still lots of howling when coasting and now it howls when

> driving at
> > > highway speeds too.
> > >
> > > Since I've wasted enough of my time crawling around on the floor of a
> > > superheated garage with no hoist and inadequate tools, I'm going to hand
> > > this off to a pro, assuming I can find one. Haven't had any luck so far,
> > > they keep telling me they don't have torque wrenches that go beyond 250
> > > ft-lbs either.
> > >
> > > /Peter

  #40  
Old July 19th 05, 12:32 AM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Imagine the yoke to be a different length, shorter and nut bottoms
out: http://www.billhughes.com/dana30/
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> If the yokes differed in the thickness of the splined part, how would that
> affect things? Would using a new crush sleeve solve such a problme?
>
> The pinion nut only turned 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn when going from 160 to 250+
> ft-lbs, I don't know if that is significant.
>
> /Peter

 




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