Best MPG : 5-speed vs. auto?

AZ Nomad wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:58:57 -0400, Mike Romain > wrote:
>
> >Greg Campbell wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >> >>The idea that you lose control in neutral is baloney.
> >>
> >> > No it isn't.
> >>
> >> > When you are coasting in neutral, the suspension is unloaded. This
> >> > means all the parts are loose and floppy. If you have any worn parts,
> >> > this looseness can translate into loss of control 'very' quickly.
> >>
> >> If your suspension and shocks are so knackered that they rely on
> >> drivetrain preload to control the car, your rolling wreck shouldn't be
> >> anywhere near the road...
> >>
> >> > Read your owners manual and see what it states.
> >>
> >> Liability and CYA.
> >>
> >> > Coming onto a world wide forum and telling folks it's ok to coast in
> >> > neutral is liable to get someone killed.
> >>
> >> <rolleyes>
> >>
> >> I don't know how much gas the engine uses when coasting down hill; there
> >> may well be a 'coast' lean program that kicks in. I do know that a
> >> zero-throttle engine produces a lot of drag which severely limits my
> >> coasting range. Assuming the hill is not so steep as to require/suggest
> >> engine braking, I'm all for clutch-in, or neutral gear, coasting,
> >> particularly in town, when a stale green or fresh red light is 30
> >> seconds ahead of me. No snap spins or dead pedestrians yet!
> >>
> >> > I off road a lot and see accidents that happen because the person was
> >> > coasting in neutral. It is bad news to do, especially in snow or
> >> > slippery conditions.
> >>
> >> This I'll buy. The diff provides some yaw control that might be handy
> >> on ice or dirt roads. On clean asphalt, it's a non issue.
> >>
> >> -Greg
>
> >Physics is the same on or off road....
>
> >Check out your local rules of the road (most are online even) and see
> >what kind of 'non issue' it really is.... It can be an expensive non
> >issue if you live where coasting down a hill is illegal a cop busts you
> >for it...
>
> Please name one single instance of somebody getting a ticket for coasting.
> How, pray tell, is a cop going to tell if a car is coasting?
>
> >If coasting was so safe as you mistakenly believe, I wonder whey most
> >places in the world make it illegal to coast down hill?
>
> It is illegal because there are people on the road who lack the skills
> to put the car back in gear to accelerate away from an impending accident.
> Sounds like you're one of them.

So you are one of those people that think the laws are made for someone
else, not you eh?

You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
the law.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:55:30 -0400, Mike Romain > wrote:


>AZ Nomad wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:58:57 -0400, Mike Romain > wrote:
>>
>> >Greg Campbell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>The idea that you lose control in neutral is baloney.
>> >>
>> >> > No it isn't.
>> >>
>> >> > When you are coasting in neutral, the suspension is unloaded. This
>> >> > means all the parts are loose and floppy. If you have any worn parts,
>> >> > this looseness can translate into loss of control 'very' quickly.
>> >>
>> >> If your suspension and shocks are so knackered that they rely on
>> >> drivetrain preload to control the car, your rolling wreck shouldn't be
>> >> anywhere near the road...
>> >>
>> >> > Read your owners manual and see what it states.
>> >>
>> >> Liability and CYA.
>> >>
>> >> > Coming onto a world wide forum and telling folks it's ok to coast in
>> >> > neutral is liable to get someone killed.
>> >>
>> >> <rolleyes>
>> >>
>> >> I don't know how much gas the engine uses when coasting down hill; there
>> >> may well be a 'coast' lean program that kicks in. I do know that a
>> >> zero-throttle engine produces a lot of drag which severely limits my
>> >> coasting range. Assuming the hill is not so steep as to require/suggest
>> >> engine braking, I'm all for clutch-in, or neutral gear, coasting,
>> >> particularly in town, when a stale green or fresh red light is 30
>> >> seconds ahead of me. No snap spins or dead pedestrians yet!
>> >>
>> >> > I off road a lot and see accidents that happen because the person was
>> >> > coasting in neutral. It is bad news to do, especially in snow or
>> >> > slippery conditions.
>> >>
>> >> This I'll buy. The diff provides some yaw control that might be handy
>> >> on ice or dirt roads. On clean asphalt, it's a non issue.
>> >>
>> >> -Greg
>>
>> >Physics is the same on or off road....
>>
>> >Check out your local rules of the road (most are online even) and see
>> >what kind of 'non issue' it really is.... It can be an expensive non
>> >issue if you live where coasting down a hill is illegal a cop busts you
>> >for it...
>>
>> Please name one single instance of somebody getting a ticket for coasting.
>> How, pray tell, is a cop going to tell if a car is coasting?
>>
>> >If coasting was so safe as you mistakenly believe, I wonder whey most
>> >places in the world make it illegal to coast down hill?
>>
>> It is illegal because there are people on the road who lack the skills
>> to put the car back in gear to accelerate away from an impending accident.
>> Sounds like you're one of them.

>So you are one of those people that think the laws are made for someone
>else, not you eh?

>You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
>the law.

Stupid laws are made to be broken.
Get over yourself.

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:46:34 -0400, Mike Romain > wrote:


>You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
>the law.

>You can try to justify breaking the law all you want, readers just need
>to know it is basically an unsafe and illegal practice to coast down a
>hill in neutral.

>Once you are used to 'just doing that little' coast, the coasts get
>longer and steeper and.....

And you're still boring the **** out everybody with your dimwitted
form letter.

> Once you are used to 'just doing that little' coast, the coasts get
> longer and steeper and.....
>

Coasting to lights is just a gateway to more hard-core coasting!

OK, now everyone, drive 10 over the limit on your way home tonight.
Break the law, please, I'm asking you to.

When you get home, onto the mattress tags.

Dave

PS I love the tags thing, but they actually say unlawful for anyone to
remove EXCEPT for the consumer.

Mike Romain wrote:
> You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
> the law.

But there is no world-wide law. Merey by writing anything to Usenet,
you are breaking the law of some regime that prohibits this kind of
expression. So what?

> You can try to justify breaking the law all you want, readers just need
> to know it is basically an unsafe and illegal practice to coast down a
> hill in neutral.

Unsafe? Possibly. It depends on the duration of the coast. The top
speed achieved, the heat accumulated in the brakes, etc.

Illegal? Depends on what jurisdiction.

Should I not roll out of a slanted driveway and then engage second
gear, because it's a slope, and that would constitute coasting down a
hill in neutral?

If I'm driving downhill and come to a stop sign, should I stall the
engine to avoid coasting in neutral? Or should I break the law by
stepping on the clutch when the RPMs drop below 1000?

> Once you are used to 'just doing that little' coast, the coasts get
> longer and steeper and.....

Do I smell a slippery slope argument?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Mike Romain wrote:

> You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
> the law.

Since that's clearly the only angle from which you can view this debate,
then yes. "GO BREAK THE LAW, PEOPLE!! Save yourself some gas along the
way!" Happy? :P

I've never advocated anything more than peeps thinking for themselves
and driving in a responsible manner. You can't see that because you
can't get past the "breaking the law" fixation.

FYI, the world is NOT black and white, and laws don't always coincide
with ethical/proper behavior. If you rely on laws (or some ancient
book!) to govern every aspect of your behavior and establish your
ethical boundries, you are doing yourself and your society a great
disservice.

(Needless to say, I'm a big existentialist... )

> You can try to justify breaking the law all you want, readers just need
> to know it is basically an unsafe and illegal practice to coast down a
> hill in neutral.

"Unsafe" and "Illegal" have yet to be proven to my satisfaction, and are
both highly subjective to boot. (How steep a grade, what speed, how far,
etc.)

> Once you are used to 'just doing that little' coast, the coasts get
> longer and steeper and.....

As if you've never exceeded the speed limit?? Puleeeze!

I take it that we can expect to see you blasting through school zones at
80MPH! "Hide the children, Mike's coming!!!" Has your reckless,
lawless behavior (you evil, baby-eating, LAW BREAKER, you!!)
compulsively driven you you to drive "faster and more dangerous and...."
???

(A mother weeps over her daughters broken body: "If only Mike hadn't
violated the speed limit back in 2002," (When he started his rampage of
horror.) "my child would still be alive....")

As others have pointed out, the "slippery slope" argument is pretty weak.


-Greg

Mike Romain wrote:
> You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
> the law.


Yeah, and I know everyone on this group obeys the speed limit exactly.
Not one mph over the limit, right? No second gear stops at stop signs?

wrote:
> simple - regardless, if it is automatic or stick shift, the quicker you
> can get into the running gear - less fuel is required.
>
>
Based on this thread I did some tests yesterday with my 98 Neon R/T (16V
DOHC). I could not accelerate in fifth from 1000 rpm, but it
accelerated fine at 1100. The engine is redlined at 7000. I consider
this amazing flexibility compared to something like my old MG-TD or TR-3.

Mike Romain wrote:
> You are still posting on a world wide forum trying to advocate breaking
> the law.
>
> You can try to justify breaking the law all you want, readers just need
> to know it is basically an unsafe and illegal practice to coast down a
> hill in neutral.
>
> Once you are used to 'just doing that little' coast, the coasts get
> longer and steeper and.....
>
> Mike
>


Fortunately you are in the majority on this topic. It seems so obvious
to most of us.....